German radars

[IckyATLAS]

Will we have some german radars in BoN like the Freya or the Würzburg.

[Feathered_IV]

Yes.  It was in the Dev Diary with screenshots a couple of weeks ago.  You should check those out sometime. 

[MarcoPegase44]

Hello,

 

Here are some photographs taken 2 weeks ago of the radar station in Normandy of " DouvreLa Delivrande" and preserved since 1944.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by MarcoPegase44

[IckyATLAS]

5 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Yes.  It was in the Dev Diary with screenshots a couple of weeks ago.  You should check those out sometime. 

It skipped my eyeball high resolution radar ?

[AEthelraedUnraed]

5 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Yes.  It was in the Dev Diary with screenshots a couple of weeks ago.  You should check those out sometime. 

In fact, they're already in game. You can add them to a custom mission if you want.

[Monostripezebra]

What I found interesting that those where also installed on ships

 

[AndyJWest]

1 hour ago, Monostripezebra said:

What I found interesting that those where also installed on ships

 

 

Is that the Nachtjagdleitschiff  Togo? I think it must be. 

[Monostripezebra]

2 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

 

Is that the Nachtjagdleitschiff  Togo? I think it must be. 

I think so, yes. I think there was also one in the north sea.. but I can´t find anything on it now.. read about that years ago.

[AndyJWest]

17 minutes ago, Monostripezebra said:

I think so, yes. I think there was also one in the north sea.. but I can´t find anything on it now.. read about that years ago.

 

German Wikipedia has an article on Nachtjagdleitschiff. Apparently there were only two - the Togo, which operated in the Baltic, and the Kreta, which operated briefly in the Mediterranean before being sunk. I'd imagine you'd need fairly calm seas for one to be of much use, and anything in the North Sea would be rather vulnerable to air attack, too. 

 

The Togo seems to have lived an interesting life. Launched as a merchant ship  in 1938, requisitioned in 1940, repeatedly refitted for different purposes by the Kriegsmarine, before being seized as war booty in 1945. The Royal Norwegian Navy then took her over, and she became a refugee ship, before she reverted to civil use - finally ending her days, after multiple changes of owner, as the tramp steamer, MS Topeka,  by running aground off the Mexican coast, in 1984, with the loss of two of her crew. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gambit21]

11 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

Will we have some german radars in BoN like the Freya or the Würzburg.

 

I built one in the editor - You even hear the “hum” (radio interference) when the beam passes over you each time. If you drop below 500 feet +- it will lose contact.

 

There’s also a built-in algorithm that decides if a night fighter is sent after you, or if the plotting table is already too busy. I’m not releasing it however.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Gambit21

[I./JG1_Baron]

I would very much like us to have - perhaps once in the very distant future - night fighters with functional radars.

Well, I know it's just a dream, just like the Battle of France, but can I dream isnt it? ?

[56RAF_phoenix56]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

 

I built one in the editor - You even hear the “hum” (radio interference) when the beam passes over you each time. If you drop below 500 feet +- it will lose contact.

 

There’s also a built-in algorithm that decides if a night fighter is sent after you, or if the plotting table is already too busy. I’m not releasing it however.

 

 

 

 

Hi Gambit, I'd be really interested in the radar model, you've implemented some sort of search method?

Did you get data on the rotation rate of the antenna? Jones's Most Secret War has some info on pulse rates and range.

This is something Normandy (& the Rhineland) really needs.

 

56RAF_phoenix

[Gambit21]

7 hours ago, 56RAF_phoenix56 said:

Hi Gambit, I'd be really interested in the radar model, you've imple

mented some sort of search method?

 

Yep

Overlapping trigger zones, timed pulses and Boolean logic.

 

Quote

Did you get data on the rotation rate of the antenna?

 

Yep

Each pulse has an adjustable %/dice roll determining if your aircraft was detected or not. Again you can hear the beam sweep your aircraft each time via buzz/radio crackle on your aircraft radio. The longer you’re above 500’, the more pulses and greater chance of being detected/acted upon.

 

 

Quote

 

This is something Normandy (& the Rhineland) really needs.

 

That was my thinking as well.

 

 

Moved on though.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Gambit21

[IckyATLAS]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

 

I built one in the editor - You even hear the “hum” (radio interference) when the beam passes over you each time. If you drop below 500 feet +- it will lose contact.

 

There’s also a built-in algorithm that decides if a night fighter is sent after you, or if the plotting table is already too busy. I’m not releasing it however.

 

 

 

 

Wow that's nice editor programming. There is really a lot that can be done with this editor if you are ready to invest the necessary time ? 

[Gambit21]

6 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

Wow that's nice editor programming. There is really a lot that can be done with this editor if you are ready to invest the necessary time ? 

 

A lot...but missing some vital triggers still. Especially a player response/input trigger. "Spacebar = input/report, or “on report player response” (space bar etc)

Also "altitude less than/greater than" etc.

 

I asked for the player input trigger years ago now. With this simple addition you could script the player asking for more flights to arrive to help with an attack on a column for instance, tanks could call for air support, custom radio calls from the player can be triggered... etc. Basically it adds an interactive layer/possibility to a mission build. 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Gambit21

[Monostripezebra]

14 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

 

German Wikipedia has an article on Nachtjagdleitschiff. Apparently there were only two - the Togo, which operated in the Baltic, and the Kreta, which operated briefly in the Mediterranean before being sunk. I'd imagine you'd need fairly calm seas for one to be of much use, and anything in the North Sea would be rather vulnerable to air attack, too. 

 

The Togo seems to have lived an interesting life. Launched as a merchant ship  in 1938, requisitioned in 1940, repeatedly refitted for different purposes by the Kriegsmarine, before being seized as war booty in 1945. The Royal Norwegian Navy then took her over, and she became a refugee ship, before she reverted to civil use - finally ending her days, after multiple changes of owner, as the tramp steamer, MS Topeka,  by running aground off the Mexican coast, in 1984, with the loss of two of her crew.

 

 

Yeah, I saw that... but I remember there also was something else in the north sea, or at least that is what I heard some decades ago.. can´t find anything on it now, but that also may be that not everything made it on the internet. But with the bomber streams coming from GB I think it would be self evident that some sort of early detection would have been tried. FuMO1 "Calais A" was one of the naval designations..

 

For anyone interested: there is also the plans and handbook available on these, online

https://cdvandt.org/werkstattbuch-62-65.htm

 

 

[IckyATLAS]

8 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

A lot...but missing some vital triggers still. Especially a player response/input trigger. "Spacebar = input/report, or “on report player response” (space bar etc)

Also "altitude less than/greater than" etc.

 

I asked for the player input trigger years ago now. With this simple addition you could script the player asking for more flights to arrive to help with an attack on a column for instance, tanks could call for air support, custom radio calls from the player can be triggered... etc. Basically it adds an interactive layer/possibility to a mission build. 

 

 

In addition of ingame Player Input one interesting extension would be to to have an MCU that is in fact a code box (which language is open, maybe python that I prefer ? ) in which you can have some simple programming and from which then you can trigger things, set up variables or parameters etc.

I practiced this a lot with robots where you could program in a graphic language with boxes and links and your boxes could have your code embedded in them where you could access to sensors motors etc. and act upon them in real time.

[Denum]

Here I was thinking you were referring to how much louder allied aircraft are then axis when they're behind you ? 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Denum

[Juri_JS]

On 7/2/2021 at 8:36 PM, Gambit21 said:

 

If you drop below 500 feet +- it will lose contact.

I have build a basic radar mechanism too, but I wonder how you were able to achieve the above effect without using hundreds of sphere type check zones.

 

On 7/3/2021 at 1:03 AM, Gambit21 said:

 

A lot...but missing some vital triggers still. Especially a player response/input trigger. "Spacebar = input/report, or “on report player response” (space bar etc)

Also "altitude less than/greater than" etc.

Yes an input trigger is much needed. At the moment you can only achieve a similar effect by firing flares, but of course this is only useful in certain situations, for example giving an airfield the command to ignite runway fires or giving ground troops the signal to advance.

[Gambit21]

9 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

I have build a basic radar mechanism too, but I wonder how you were able to achieve the above effect without using hundreds of sphere type check zones.

 

I used 16 or so very large, overlapping (by 50% or so) zones since the max height didn’t matter, just the minimum height. So of course the bottom of the ‘radar coverage zone’ isn’t perfectly flat, but this works as it sort of enhances the effect of imperfect radar coverage. So you might get lucky and be above 500’ in a high spot where the spheres intersect...or you might pop above 500’ in the exact spot (middle of a sphere) where radar coverage is perfect down to 500’ and be defected.

 

The audio cue to the player is the touch I was particularly happy with. It gives you that ominous ‘oh crap’ feeling, and you don’t know what’s going to happen. You can be up there for one sweep cycle and have a German fighter vectored to you, or be up there for 10 minutes and get away with it (and I mean actually within the zones/hearing the ‘hum’...’hum’) because no fighter was available during that period. So it’s a calculated risk that you can choose to take or not. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Gambit21

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

The audio cue to the player is the touch I was particularly happy with. It gives you that ominous ‘oh crap’ feeling, and you don’t know what’s going to happen. You can be up there for one sweep cycle and have a German fighter vectored to you, or be up there for 10 minutes and get away with it (and I mean actually within the zones/hearing the ‘hum’...’hum’) because no fighter was available during that period. So it’s a calculated risk that you can choose to take or not. 

I assume you've got static radio noise in a timer loop that gets activated/started by the check zone trigger and deactivated by another check zone? Nicely done!

[BlitzPig_EL]

Would a radar sweep be detectable over the aircraft radio by the pilot in real life?

[-SF-Disarray]

Radars work on the same principals as a communications radio set on the broadcast end of things, just on a substantially different frequency set. You can tune a radio to pick up radar though, at least modern radios can, I'm not sure that radios from the 40's could or not. They sound unpleasant. A lot of screeching and beeps. If you've ever answered the phone when someone called via a fax machine or heard a dialup internet connection, it is in that kind of ball park.

 

This page has some recordings of radar audio captures. I can't say it is great listening but you can hear it. https://www.sigidwiki.com/wiki/Category:Radar

Edited July 4, 2021 by -SF-Disarray

[Gambit21]

3 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I assume you've got static radio noise in a timer loop that gets activated/started by the check zone trigger and deactivated by another check zone? Nicely done!

 

Yep, and rotation accounted for, so that if you pop up into it’s effective zone, it might be pointed away from you, so you may (or may not) have a short time before it sweeps you.

2 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Would a radar sweep be detectable over the aircraft radio by the pilot in real life?

 

Yes, that’s why I set it up that way.

Read Mosquitoe Intruder/Terror in the Starboard Seat.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Gambit21

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Would a radar sweep be detectable over the aircraft radio by the pilot in real life?

 

In addition to what's already been written, P-47 pilots in the Conquest of the Reich documentary talk about hearing radar interference in their headphones. 

[Beebop]

On 7/2/2021 at 6:40 AM, Monostripezebra said:

What I found interesting that those where also installed on ships

 

Interesting.  And all this time I thought it was a satellite dish so the crew could watch the soccer matches and stream movies.

[Dragon1-1]

On 7/4/2021 at 7:59 PM, BlitzPig_EL said:

Would a radar sweep be detectable over the aircraft radio by the pilot in real life?

If it's on the right frequency, certainly. In fact, that's how early RWR worked, it was a radio receiver tuned to receive various radars and hooked up to headphones. You listened to the signal to determine what radar it was and what it was doing. 

 

Also, there was a time when you could (and, if you liked listening to the radio, probably did) hear the Russian Duga over the horizon radar in most of Europe, which was called "Russian Woodpecker" due to how it sounded. It spawned some conspiracy theories, but people who knew anything about radars and radios figured out what it was pretty quickly.

[Gambit21]

It’s an ominous feeling, even in a simple test mission when you hear that interference, and wonder if you’ve just been caught.

 

Of course in real life the Germans did their best to keep clear of the Mossies - but you have to make concessions sometimes for game-play purposes. 

 

It adds some significant pucker factor, especially to night ops.