What plane do you wish for?

[SOLIDKREATE]

• Russian: MiG-3 (AM-39),     P-40K,     B-25D-30

• German: Bf-109G-4,    Bf-109G-6,    Fw-190A-4,    Bf-110G-2

[Gambit21]

The three most important reasons why the P-51 was the best fighter aircraft in the ETO and the Possible the PTO was Speed, range and it was produced in significant and impactful numbers. Because it was the fastest piston engine aircraft of the war it could engage and disengage at will and dictate the terms of the engagement. In addition it could out dive any of its adversaries. Also, it had a better zoom climb rate  much more meaningful in an  enemy engagement. High altitude performance was unmatched except by its own stablemate the P-47. Although the BMW engine the FW-190 used was a copy of an American design.The goofball Germans could never figure out how get the high altitude performance from it. So, they had to install an inline engine at the very end of the war to address this issue. Meanwhile they were stuck with an inefficient obsolete airframe in the 109 with poor high speed handling. To keep up,litererly they had to make it faster by adding lumps and bumps to cowling and wings only to see the handling characteristics degrade further at high speed .Resulting in the " Lawn Dart" phenomenon when trying to keep up with the 51,47 or 38 in a dive. However, they had to keep it around because of the poor performance of the FW at the altitude of the USAAC bomber stream. Regarding range, consider this if either the  109 or the Spitfire had any imagine the impact it would of had on the Battle of Britian, and therefore the remainder of the war in the ETO. What truly is amazing about the  P-51 is it was nearly double the loaded weight of the Spitfire and yet with the exact same ( nearly the Packard improved the Merlin) engine the P-51 was 50 + MPH faster and had 3 to 4 times the range. The reason the Spit units were being replaced by P-51's. All this went from drawing board to reality in 120 days. How many years was the 109 ,190 and Spit in development. The possible better aircraft was the Corsair, because it did something the P-51, 109,190  never did it flew from carriers.

 

I would simply quote my own post again - still stands in light of everything you typed.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Sticking to Stalingrad era:

 

VVS:

Yak-7, P-39, il-4, Yak 1B

 

Luft:

Bf-110, Ju-52, Ju-88, Hs-129

Anytime, any place, I'd love to see a griffon-engine Spitfire X1V done for the very first time. This superb fighter was the best piston-engine fighter of WW11 and ate any piston Luftwaffe fighter for lunch, also got the first me-262 kill. Was unaccountably left out of il-2 1946, probably because it would have given the RAF air supremacy and the makers didn't want that, hence the lack of the Meteor jet too. 

 

Actually the reason why we never got the Spitfire XIV is because of the following: A Spitfire's present in IL-2 1946 were made by one of two third party contributors (Gibbage and Nyme). When it came to do the Spitfire XIV a third person was working on it but never finished. Then Nyme picked it up but ran out of time. Then another modeller picked it up and disappeared.

 

The RAF was not too badly done by in the end... for a sim that focused on the Eastern and Pacific theatres we did end up with some very good selections of Spitfires and the Tempest Mark V is by all rights a top contender for fastest fighter on the Western Front. Certainly at medium altitudes it can overhaul any non-jet German fighter.

 

The Meteor Mark I is slower than a Tempest with poorer controls. The Mark III is somewhat faster than a Tempest but again with poor control. Domination is not what the Meteor would have been capable of.

 

BTW: The Meteor was also started and stopped by at least two modellers off the top of my head.

[Froddi_VR]

Mig 3

 

Iar 80

 

Ju 88

[PantsPilot]

You can find a Spitfire XIV here --> http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Spitfire_Mk_XIV

 

European Air War had that version too at release so the "for the first time" remark is a fair bit off the mark. 

The Spitfire X1V has been absent from every DECENT combat flight sim, that's the point. Despite having hundreds of warbirds included it wasn't in il-2 1946. That's the only combat flight sim that's mattered to anybody for many years. Nobody takes any notice of the games you mentioned.

Actually the reason why we never got the Spitfire XIV is because of the following: A Spitfire's present in IL-2 1946 were made by one of two third party contributors (Gibbage and Nyme). When it came to do the Spitfire XIV a third person was working on it but never finished. Then Nyme picked it up but ran out of time. Then another modeller picked it up and disappeared.

 

The RAF was not too badly done by in the end... for a sim that focused on the Eastern and Pacific theatres we did end up with some very good selections of Spitfires and the Tempest Mark V is by all rights a top contender for fastest fighter on the Western Front. Certainly at medium altitudes it can overhaul any non-jet German fighter.

 

The Meteor Mark I is slower than a Tempest with poorer controls. The Mark III is somewhat faster than a Tempest but again with poor control. Domination is not what the Meteor would have been capable of.

 

BTW: The Meteor was also started and stopped by at least two modellers off the top of my head.

 

Guess we were unlucky then because we never got the typhoon either - imagine that a Normandy map but no typhoon, nor was the excellent Mosquito B1V flyable either, then there was no Lancaster or Halifax, I could go on but I think you get my drift!

[ShamrockOneFive]

Typhoon was started but never finished unfortunately...  The guy who did the Tempest spent 5 years making it bit by bit. It was beautifully done but he didn't want to go back and do the Typhoon as it would have taken another long time.

 

Even the Normandy map was a third party contribution. The sim never focused on the Western Front at all.

 

I do hope that one day we might see 777 do something on the West Front that lets us have some of the ultimate Spitfire and Tempest variations.

[PantsPilot]

69.GIAP, If  you want to hear more unbiased comments regarding the superiority of the P-51. Read what the polish pilots remarks had to say. The same pilot flew their own aircraft along with French, British and US including the P-40,P-47 and P-51 . "The P-51 was the best fighter of WW II , with the Jug as runner up". This coming from pilots who  were the first to shoot down a Luftwaffe aircraft in WW II. In fact, the 303 squadron ( Polish) achieved top score ( most confirmed victories) over any RAF squadron in the Battle of Britain. Imagine if the were allowed to participate in the first half of  BOB.

Spitfire X1V with the griffon engine was superior to the P-51 in every respect except range. It first saw combat in July in 1944 but because it wasn't an escort fighter like the P-51 it didn't see a whole lot of action. However what it did do it did very well, including the first Me-262 kill and easily outclassed all German piston engine fighters it met. Just google the performance figures and you'll see it was bloody awesome for a mid 1944 fighter, just a shame there wasn't much opposition for it. Though 2nd Tactical Airforce Spit X1V's wracked up quite a few kills especially over Ardennes and Germany.   

[Praetor]

The Spitfire X1V has been absent from every DECENT combat flight sim, that's the point. Despite having hundreds of warbirds included it wasn't in il-2 1946. That's the only combat flight sim that's mattered to anybody for many years. Nobody takes any notice of the games you mentioned.

 

Guess we were unlucky then because we never got the typhoon either - imagine that a Normandy map but no typhoon, nor was the excellent Mosquito B1V flyable either, then there was no Lancaster or Halifax, I could go on but I think you get my drift!

 

Huh?  the Spit XIV is in Aces High and at this moment there are over 350 people flying in the same server.  Nobody takes notice of it?  Their community is larger than BOS, CloD, and 1946 combined. 

[Robs]

Po-2

Fi 156 storch

Fw-189

Ju-52

[TJT]

The Spitfire X1V has been absent from every DECENT combat flight sim, that's the point. Despite having hundreds of warbirds included it wasn't in il-2 1946. That's the only combat flight sim that's mattered to anybody for many years. Nobody takes any notice of the games you mentioned.

 

 

Pantspilot, thats just alittle uninformed as Praetor says, those games predate IL-2 1946. Aces High is very much a noticable sim on the market although aged. EAW is a 1999 sim but since you made such a blatant wrong remark of it not being available in ANY sim I just had to nudge you.   

[FuriousMeow]

AH might be showing its age, but it is due for a graphics engine enhancement. There's quite a few videos up on the mainpage. Additionally, Aces High has a better FM than Il-2 did from it's inception. In the original version of Il-2, in order to take off a plane had to have its stick held back to maintain lift until 200+km/h were achieved and then the back stick force could be released. It was silly. All planes in Il-2 at the start had the same torque, gyroscopic precession and p-factor - even the jets. It wasn't until the 4.0 FM that those items were rectified because of the P38 being added and more jets being added. AH still has a better FM than Il-2 1946. So, in conclusion AH and AHII are actually very decent air combat sims. I only stopped playing because of the monthly fees and the influx of avid viewers of the History "Teh P51 won teh warz!!!" Channel jumping into the fray which truly ruined what was previously a much better community.

Edited July 13, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[FuriousMeow]

And I forgot the complete and utter lack of drag when the throttle was reduced that existed for a long time. There was zero drag from the propellor so you could glide forever at zero throttle, this was prior to the prop feathering addition. It took forever to land, one had to circle the field and throw the plane in all sorts of drag inducing manuevers to slow down.

[Praetor]

And I forgot the complete and utter lack of drag when the throttle was reduced that existed for a long time. There was zero drag from the propellor so you could glide forever at zero throttle, this was prior to the prop feathering addition. It took forever to land, one had to circle the field and throw the plane in all sorts of drag inducing manuevers to slow down.

 

Not like that all now, and the community is great.  Been playing it on and off since Beta almost 15 years ago.  The enhancement is going to add a lot.  Plus, tanks.  

[Motherbrain]

I-16

 

Bf-110

 

Ju-52

 

He-123 (German ground attack, radial engine biplane) 

Edited July 14, 2014 by GojiraAlpha

[FuriousMeow]

Not like that all now, and the community is great.  Been playing it on and off since Beta almost 15 years ago.  The enhancement is going to add a lot.  Plus, tanks.  

 

Sorry, that last post was about Il-2 - not AH or AHII. AH and AHII have always had a great FM. The community kind of went south a bit during the History Channel commercials that were put out years ago. I guess it recovered. I did do 2 weeks free about a year ago and it was very fun. I just don't have the time to make the monthly payment worth it currently. I thnk this fall/winter, though, I'll be jumping back in.

Edited July 14, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[PantsPilot]

Huh?  the Spit XIV is in Aces High and at this moment there are over 350 people flying in the same server.  Nobody takes notice of it?  Their community is larger than BOS, CloD, and 1946 combined. 

 

Maybe but it's not a PROPER OFFLINE Spitfire X1V like these guys would build is it? There's mega communities on games that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, games that are pure fiction. I don't know what aces high is like but if its any good how come your here?

Edited July 17, 2014 by PantsPilot

[PantsPilot]

Pantspilot, thats just alittle uninformed as Praetor says, those games predate IL-2 1946. Aces High is very much a noticable sim on the market although aged. EAW is a 1999 sim but since you made such a blatant wrong remark of it not being available in ANY sim I just had to nudge you.   

 

Yeah but there's combat flight sims and then there's GAMES aren't there? Il-2 1946 was a sim, the others mentioned are just games, often geared up just for online play too, exact modelling of an aircraft such as the Spitfire X1V gets very low priority in GAMES. Anyway I'd still like to see it done properly by this team here if that's alright with you! 

I stick by my original statement; the Spitfire X1V is still awaiting a proper addition to a modern combat flight sim. As for raising a 1999 game, well I'm speechless.  

Edited July 17, 2014 by PantsPilot

[ShamrockOneFive]

Yeah but there's combat flight sims and then there's GAMES aren't there? Il-2 1946 was a sim, the others mentioned are just games, often geared up just for online play too, exact modelling of an aircraft such as the Spitfire X1V gets very low priority in GAMES. Anyway I'd still like to see it done properly by this team here if that's alright with you! 

I stick by my original statement; the Spitfire X1V is still awaiting a proper addition to a modern combat flight sim. As for raising a 1999 game, well I'm speechless.  

 

Since we're being picky... it's Spitfire XIV. All Roman numerals were used with the Spitfire designations until the Mark 21. Mixing would be incorrect

 

(Technically its Spitfire F.XIVc or Spitfire FR.XIVc or 'e' as equipped)

[=38=Tatarenko]

For this map, the Ju-52 of course, then Yak-7, Bf-110 (used a lot as escorts for the air bridge). Also Romanian IAR 80, Emil would be nice. Overall the I-16 is my favourite but I think they were down in the Caucasus. Haven't really heard of them around Stalingrad this late on.

 

For early Stalingrad the Su-2 would be good but they were all lost as the Germans approach I think.

[ShamrockOneFive]

For this map, the Ju-52 of course, then Yak-7, Bf-110 (used a lot as escorts for the air bridge). Also Romanian IAR 80, Emil would be nice. Overall the I-16 is my favourite but I think they were down in the Caucasus. Haven't really heard of them around Stalingrad this late on.

 

For early Stalingrad the Su-2 would be good but they were all lost as the Germans approach I think.

If they decide to do a summer pack with a summer map then a Yak-7, Bf110, Bf109E, I-16 and Su-2 would all be possibilities. Who knows

[FuriousMeow]

Yeah but there's combat flight sims and then there's GAMES aren't there? Il-2 1946 was a sim, the others mentioned are just games, often geared up just for online play too, exact modelling of an aircraft such as the Spitfire X1V gets very low priority in GAMES. Anyway I'd still like to see it done properly by this team here if that's alright with you! 

I stick by my original statement; the Spitfire X1V is still awaiting a proper addition to a modern combat flight sim. As for raising a 1999 game, well I'm speechless.  

 

That's funny, Il2 is a 2001 game. And Aces High has since become Aces High II which was released mid-2000s and it is very much more sim than Il-2 was. Re-read every point I made about the fallacies the Il-2 series had, and still have - it doesn't even have proper ground handling while AH does. AH and AHII also properly model each aircraft as they should be, the Il-2 series was a lot of questionable modelling.

Edited July 19, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Gambit21]

I don't think the old IL2 nailed spot on (so far as the engine would allow) any single aircraft, and many of the problems were glaring.

[PantsPilot]

Since we're being picky... it's Spitfire XIV. All Roman numerals were used with the Spitfire designations until the Mark 21. Mixing would be incorrect

 

(Technically its Spitfire F.XIVc or Spitfire FR.XIVc or 'e' as equipped)

yawn....whatever

[TJT]

Yeah but there's combat flight sims and then there's GAMES aren't there? Il-2 1946 was a sim, the others mentioned are just games, often geared up just for online play too, exact modelling of an aircraft such as the Spitfire X1V gets very low priority in GAMES. Anyway I'd still like to see it done properly by this team here if that's alright with you! 

I stick by my original statement; the Spitfire X1V is still awaiting a proper addition to a modern combat flight sim. As for raising a 1999 game, well I'm speechless.  

 

Yeah you should be speechless... Especially since you call AH/AH2 a game rather then a simulator.

Edited July 19, 2014 by TJT

[PantsPilot]

Yeah you should be speechless... Especially since you call AH/AH2 a game rather then a simulator.

When will you guys get the point I DON'T FLY ONLINE. When has there been a Spit X1V modelled as an offline plane recently? No, right, the rest is irrelevant waffle really.

Edited July 19, 2014 by PantsPilot

[pencon]

Bring on the Mig3 and especially the i16 as well as MC200

[PantsPilot]

That's funny, Il2 is a 2001 game. And Aces High has since become Aces High II which was released mid-2000s and it is very much more sim than Il-2 was. Re-read every point I made about the fallacies the Il-2 series had, and still have - it doesn't even have proper ground handling while AH does. AH and AHII also properly model each aircraft as they should be, the Il-2 series was a lot of questionable modelling.

This is my final post on the subject but if you'd read the posts properly you'd see that the reference to 1999 was for EAW (according to another poster, not il-2. I had il-2 from day one so I already know exactly when that came out. 

 

Anyway as far as I'm concerned there's been no Spit X1V available for offline combat for donkeys years, in fact I don't recall flying one since Aces Over Europe donkeys years ago! I'm not interested in subscription online games. There's been zillions of Bf-109's, Fw-190's, P-47's, P-51's, F4/6F's, A6M's etc down the years, but despite the Spit X1V being the best piston engine fighter of WW11, it has been as common as rocking horse manure in a proper offline combat flight sim where the actual battles that occurred are recreated as opposed to a giant online furball that bears no resemblance whatsoever to a real WW11 air battle. In my book that's a game not a simulation. I'd like to see a Spit X1V here because these guys have realised the importance of simulating the real air war offline with ai aircraft that behave the same as the flyers own mount as opposed to bots, as well as providing trendy online gameplay for those that want it - I don't so no Spit X1V for me.

[Gambit21]

I don't think you're giving online flying a fair shake calling it "trendy" - with respect that's way off base.

I fully realize that the most realistic, historical experience is offline, that's just a fact. This is why I enjoy offline flying.

 

That said, there is something to be had online that you can't experience offline, and that's the human factor.

You can't sneak up on an AI airplane - it always knows you're there, and it's repertoire is very limited.  

There's just no comparison to flying against a good human pilot.

There is something to be said for both online and offline play, but online play is far from "trendy", especially where

CoOps/goal oriented flying is concerned. I enjoy both for different reasons.

 

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[=38=Tatarenko]

Had a look today through VVS loss lists etc to see what we are missing on the VVS side at Stalingrad for our Nov42 to Jan43 timeframe. Surprisingly little, actually.

 

In the VA's we're missing the Yak-7B, Po-2 and a few IL-4.

 

In the ADD we're missing more - Il4, Bostons, Li-2 (transport and bombers) and some TB-3 (used for transport only).

 

Most of the other interesting stuff, like I-16, I-153, Hurricanes, Mig-3's etc were further south/southeast.

 

So it looks like our planeset is pretty good for the Russians.

[Gambit21]

I'm looking forward to getting AI transports on both sides to shoot down/protect - or even static ones to strafe on the ground.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Gambit21

[=38=Tatarenko]

On the Axis side in the Sgrad/Don Bend area we are missing:

 

Bf-110E (used as airbridge escort and ground attack)

Ju88

Emil (used by ground attack sqns and the Romanians)

Hs129

Ju52

Fw200

Fw189

Ju86

Ju290

Mc200

Mc202

Fi156

 

Not sure if there were still IAR80 at Karpovka this late (if so, they rarely flew).

Maybe also Hs126.

Plus there were some Italian transports but I don't know much about them.

 

Obviously the first 5 would be the most useful.

Edited July 20, 2014 by =38=Tatarenko

[Gambit21]

A Storch would be great with this game engine.

Agreed on the first 4 comment.

 

 

I've always had a soft spot for the Emil.

[FuriousMeow]

This is my final post on the subject but if you'd read the posts properly you'd see that the reference to 1999 was for EAW (according to another poster, not il-2. I had il-2 from day one so I already know exactly when that came out. 

 

Anyway as far as I'm concerned there's been no Spit X1V available for offline combat for donkeys years, in fact I don't recall flying one since Aces Over Europe donkeys years ago! I'm not interested in subscription online games. There's been zillions of Bf-109's, Fw-190's, P-47's, P-51's, F4/6F's, A6M's etc down the years, but despite the Spit X1V being the best piston engine fighter of WW11, it has been as common as rocking horse manure in a proper offline combat flight sim where the actual battles that occurred are recreated as opposed to a giant online furball that bears no resemblance whatsoever to a real WW11 air battle. In my book that's a game not a simulation. I'd like to see a Spit X1V here because these guys have realised the importance of simulating the real air war offline with ai aircraft that behave the same as the flyers own mount as opposed to bots, as well as providing trendy online gameplay for those that want it - I don't so no Spit X1V for me.

 

I missed the EAW part, I only saw the AH reference. My apologies.

 

However, if you think offline is the the epitome of replicating WWII air combat scenarios then you simply don't have a clue. I could say that nicely, like you're ignorant of the matter or grudgingly biased or are just afraid of online but there have been thousands of WWII, and WWI, scenarios re-created online that will replicate historical scenarios far better than single player AI ever could. Air Warrior ran them, WarBirds ran/runs (do many still play WB?) them, Aces High ran/runs them, Il-2 ran(runs? anyone still play it online?) them, RBII/3D ran them, RoF runs them, and BoS will run them. They are the most exhilarting and amazing events to even be involved in. They make single player look like a pitiful excuse for a replication of a historical event.

 

Multiplayer is far from trendy, that is the future and has been showing itself as that for two decades. That's not trendy, that is the definition of maintstream.

[Gambit21]

Yeah but real WWII pilots didn't yell (type) "oops, my cat just ran over my keboard LOL!" or "Hang on, nobody shoot me, I have to answer the door"

 

There are offline aspects that are more historically accurate, and online as well. Both have their strengths.

[FuriousMeow]

Yeah, but WWII pilots didn't keep circling like morons because something went amiss with the waypoint or the target didn't arrive at the target. They also didn't just fly aimlessly off in one direction after taking some damage.

 

There are more inaccuracies in single player than multiplayer.

 

WWII pilots didn't know what to expect, single player - there is no surprise. Multi-player, there is. And I'm talking specifically about scenarios/events/wars, far far far a million times a billion more realistic than single player thanks to the organizers that pour their time and hearts into ensuring it is everything it should be.

Edited July 19, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Gambit21]

Yeah, but WWII pilots didn't keep circling like morons because something went amiss with the waypoint or the target didn't arrive at the target. They also didn't just fly aimlessly off in one direction after taking some damage.

 

 

Yeah, fair point.

[=CFC=Conky]

What kites do I wish for?

 

 

....Why, .........all of them! 

[bivalov]

well, looks like there a bit sad "news" for you, guys, i-16 NOT in 2014 (we had some talks about some time ago). so, like and about very low chance to got ju 52 in near future...

 

and i again remind that mig-3 is only beautiful plane, in handling it's something like bad la-5 s8, like said one test-pilot, or even worse (at least, during 1942 in PVO)... i mean, be real in your dreams... although, in ideal condition, like planes in release of BOS, why not? or. maybe, more L-L planes?

[Gambit21]

Crap planes are fun though - that will always be the case.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I don't mind performance as long as it's enjoyable to fly. Those who want the Mig are probably well aware of it's flaws and if not, they might accept this challenge and learn to use it most effectively.

Even Lagg-3 is quite pleasant to me currently as it's fun and challenging facing superious 109s and turn the tide, I just had a nice dogfight with 22 bf 109s wmanouvrekilling both of them and limping back home safely with my damaged Lagg.

 

Also germans are about to get some "medicore" planes as well like the Folgore/IAR-80 which should match nicely against Mig-3.