LLv34_Flanker Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 S! I did not want to name any squadron as it was a few individuals from them that were in this Cheater's Club. Really showed how far they were ready to go to win in a video game For the record there were far more honest and skilled players out there than outright cheaters or exploiters, but it really annoys the heck out of you when a small group spoils the reputation of many. A big Salute! to those who enjoy the game as it is, biting the bullet and accepting the challenge
von_Tom Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 Dkoor I agree with most of what you say, but if you are an adequate or better piot and you have radar showing the position of all aircraft and their height in relation to you, and you have a reticle that changes colour when you will hit, you don't need DM or FM changes. The "best" cheats are the subtle ones that are client machine only. But the majority don't cheat of course. Hood
Gambit21 Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Back in the day there was this grumpy guy Beowulf - in CoOps he used to use external view to track down somebody he wanted to kill. Sometimes a particular person would annoy him and he would consistently track that person down in every CoOp using externals to figure out where they were at. That was a sort of cheat I guess. He wasn't a particularly hard guy to kill though, and whenever I shot him down he just disconnected without ever a single S! or "Good Kill" loser Edited June 23, 2014 by Gambit21
Volkoff Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Anyone willing to build a lag switch can use it on me, anytime. It would be terrible to think that someone wasted so much time, effort, and money, just to have me insist on fair play. I love flight simulation, but this is a game to me. If lag switch users are out there: If you want to win that badly, use the stupid switch, you freaking sim savages! I hope you gets your monies worth out of that switch! MJ P.S. I am sure that the team will prevent what is preventable and for everything else, we can depend upon most persons not creating special switches and such. We are flight sim enthusiasts and good sport gamers, for the most part. A few bad eggs are no big deal. Edited June 23, 2014 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA
TX-EcoDragon Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) In my 16 years of multiplay sim combat I've encountered a few "exploits" but generally nothing that would really count as a true cheat. In original IL-2 there were things like prop pitch cycling (auto-100%-auto-100%) which allowed for a steep climb angle that would allow the exploiter to gain more altitude than usual, and of course there was pitch trim on a slider which was not much help in some planes, but in planes like the 109, you could dramatically improve the high speed pitch response by using trim while flying. Then there was the netcode stuff like the lag switch, or hitting the print screen key which would cause a momentary lag spike. Oh, and then there was the "speeder" cheats which I hear did something to the local PC clock rate vs the server side clock rate. Each of these issues was sorted out (well, as much as you can sort out lag) in original IL-2. In RoF an exploit that you'll see some people use is landing in the middle of a fight and turning off their engine to deny you of a kill, this is one of the most rampant ones I see. A change in the kill algorithm could sort this out. As far as actual cheats like you see in first person shooters? I do not think they exist. My personal experience is this: I've never flown against anyone in a sim I regularly flew who I couldn't beat more often then not, and so I guess that means that if they are using some exploits, well...it doesn't do a whole lot, at least not enough that good combat tactics won't beat. Ultimately, I don't know what someone might be doing, or how low on fuel they are, or whatever, but I have absolute control over what I do. Within TX Squadron one of the only required components of squad membership is that our members fly with integrity and good sportsmanship, and when you recruit pilots that are really passionate about these sims, that follows naturally. The same is generally true of most people here...we're not the same crowd as the first person shooters. We're passionate flight combat flight sim pilots, we're pilots, we're veterans, we're historians, we're reenactors, etc. So the message here is this: fly with honor, train, practice, and seek out the challenges that a skilled adversary will provide, and when you see someone you think surely must be cheating, pay close attention, record a track, and learn from them...99.8% of the time, it's just that skill cheat that was mentioned earlier. If it's something else, share the track here, and with documentation, it'll get squashed. Edited June 24, 2014 by TX-EcoDragon 1
TX-EcoDragon Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 anyone remember pink and green trails that ruled but people used to cause lag in old il2? I remember using them an awful lot during formation aerobatics and not having any lag problems, even when I flew on a team comprised of international pilots:
LLv34_Flanker Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 S! The best FM/DM cheats are not easy to spot but just within range of making people think of lag or whatnot. We talk about single digit % differences, just enough to make an impact but hard to spot. Say I have a plane easily overheating, no worries just change the parameters a bit to your favor and you get a bit more performance etc. Anyways I do not think the cheating is too prominent in flight sims after all, I think more so in FPS and other mainstream games.
von_Tom Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 And I still think that whoever got the Tirpitz airborne during a DF server deserves a clap. I wish someone could have recorded a track for the few minutes it was there before getting kicked. But maybe this is urban myth. Hood
Finkeren Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 And I still think that whoever got the Tirpitz airborne during a DF server deserves a clap. I wish someone could have recorded a track for the few minutes it was there before getting kicked. But maybe this is urban myth. Hood It's true, be sure. Here's a recording of what happened on TeamSpeak at the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJcg0o7_7N8 1
Dakpilot Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 outstanding Now we have the irrefutable proof ! seriously, careful with any attempts of humour on this site..may be taken seriously and lead to demands of refund for game lol lol Cheers Dakpilot
Gambit21 Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 and of course there was pitch trim on a slider which was not much help in some planes, but in planes like the 109, you could dramatically improve the high speed pitch response by using trim while flying. Then there was the netcode One of the few times I ever accepted a 1 on 1 challenge in Hyperlobby, I lost maybe 12 times in a row to a guy who somehow was able to turn his 109 inside of my 109 every single time, as if he was just in a different class of airplane. Wasn't until later somebody clued me in that he was probably using the trim cheat.
[JG54]Vyper Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 BFH is just a mod for BF4 being sold at AAA new release prices. Of course there'll be hacks already. 1
Brano Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Only invisible plane problem I know about was back when first mods emerged.IIRC it was situation when one had "mod" plane and others not.It was soon sorted out somehow,like server was chcecking your buttons file or smtg else and when NOK,you could not join in.
A_S Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Is IL2 cheat-free?... Is that a serious question? Every game with a compatitive nature, where men look into eachothers eyes (well, not in the virtual world unfortunatly) and hold their d#### in order to find out whos is bigger is prone to manipulation. Every piece of unprotected software can (and has been) manipulated, unless there is a solid protection preventing from doing so. We are not talking about UFOs and if they are real or not here, we are facing "WAR" (even just virtual) and everyone knows, that in war there are no "rules" and "everything is possible". How much "HONOR" do you expect from someone sitting on the other side of the planet behind a PC screen? Bottom line: Many games (especially shooter games) have anti-cheat protection, but there where it matters most (sims), we have nothing so far. Intonation on "so far" because there is something in the workings. S! The best FM/DM cheats are not easy to spot Correct, especially not if the tracks don´t provide telemetry data (AoA, Gs, Speed, current GW, Turnrate, Turnradius etc etc). Without data it will not be possible to re-calculate or even reproduce "suspicious" flight-regimes.
A_S Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Right on. Which means the ACP apps have to be smarter. We are working on such an app atm infact.. it will be initially based on FalconBMS, later BOS included. It is a very sophisticated piece of software and i can´t spill the beans at this moment. Details later. Reason for developement: - low or no protection built-in in most sims - giving community the basis of trust and confidence back - allowing valid competitions and matches
71st_AH_Mastiff Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Which also means that the big gambling on WOW, and MWO, and other online competitive games which in Russia and EU, have money exchanging hands, can not be trusted if its to be paid for. I stopped paying for these games as soon as I saw the cheats, pay $80.00 for upgrade weapons and characters, no more from me' cant be trusted to spend this kind of money on a pay to play servers any longer.
Karost Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) as having experience for over 10 years in IL-2 , I believe it not easy to stop cheating if there have a motivation. internet made hacker community stronger every years , no matter white or black hackers. then the game of mouse & cat keep roll again and again. this topic is good to bring attention to developers for prepare the offensive security and cheating protection. enjoy reading the online cheating history here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_in_online_games Edited June 27, 2014 by Karost
Bearcat Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 Back in the day there was this grumpy guy Beowulf - in CoOps he used to use external view to track down somebody he wanted to kill. Sometimes a particular person would annoy him and he would consistently track that person down in every CoOp using externals to figure out where they were at. That was a sort of cheat I guess. He wasn't a particularly hard guy to kill though, and whenever I shot him down he just disconnected without ever a single S! or "Good Kill" loser First off .. you shouldn't be calling out folks by name on something like this unless you have more proof than you apparently do.. secondly .. if this is the B dub I know he would never cheat.. He'd rather wax that tail fair and square or not at all.. and thirdly .. using external view if it is enabled on a server is not a cheat.. it is using an available feature.. People throw the word cheat around like dirty socks.. I have run across very few actual cheaters in IL2 in the 13 yeas I have been flying it when considering the time and the hours flown... One of the few times I ever accepted a 1 on 1 challenge in Hyperlobby, I lost maybe 12 times in a row to a guy who somehow was able to turn his 109 inside of my 109 every single time, as if he was just in a different class of airplane. Wasn't until later somebody clued me in that he was probably using the trim cheat. Again.. what trim cheat? There is/was no trim cheat.. a cheat is a feature or function that a person can have that others do not have access to that can be used without anyone else's knowledge.. Having trim on a slider or gaming the game is not a cheat.. If a person is too poor or too cheap to get a stick with a slider that is not anyone else's problem but theirs. If trim on aslider was a cheat then so was track IR.. or any mouse emulation software that allowed a smooth pan view.. How about the better PC cheat? Or the HOTAS cheat.. It just kills me how loosely people toss that word around.. 1
AbortedMan Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) a cheat is a feature or function that a person can have that others do not have access to that can be used without anyone else's knowledge.. Incorrect. Cheating in today's online multiplayer games can be as simple as exploiting something that allows a player to utilize a mechanic that affords something that is not intended by the developers or creators of the game. Doesn't matter if everyone has access to it or not. One can easily argue that everyone has access to hacks...doesn't mean it's not cheating. It's a bummer that right now the game is in developmental stages, so it's unfortunately rife with such exploits in different forms as they haven't all been vetted and squashed yet. I just came from a BoS session on the EU server where two people were severely exploiting the 109's elevator trim mechanic to literally rotate almost in place to achieve jaw dropping turns at high speed that would undoubtedly rip any aiframe in half and/or squish a man's guts into paste. I guarantee that if this game's goal is to represent realistic performance of the aircraft included, in this case the 109F4/G2, this sort of performance is not intended nor in the spirit of the game. It's cheating to be exploiting it as such. It's painfully obvious when this sort of exploit is being used, as I could point these certain players out from within a furball on an expert server with no icons. I don't know anyone that doesn't see this and other similar "gaming the game" type behavior as flat out cheating and a problem with the game that needs to be fixed. I know for sure that I would not want to play with anyone that uses this kind of crap just to get ahead...if your goal is to top the scoreboards, then you're playing the wrong genre...and War Thunder is that way----> Edited June 28, 2014 by AbortedMan 2
DD_Arthur Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 +1 to everything BearCat said. This is the usual "oh yeah, we all know people cheat look at FPS xyz....., etc and what happens there" but no one will be able to provide a single shred of evidence for cheating in RoF, BoS or even IL2 1946 for that matter. Just lots of anecdotes without recognizing that in most popular flight sims there are simply quite a few people who spend all their hobby time flyin' the game and are simply very, very good. If you fly online long enough you are going to be accused of cheating by some one simply because you have bruised their ego.
Gambit21 Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) First off .. you shouldn't be calling out folks by name on something like this unless you have more proof than you apparently Again.. what trim cheat? There is/was no trim cheat.. a cheat is a feature or function that a person can have that others do not have access to that can be used without anyone else's knowledge.. Having trim on a slider or gaming the game is not a cheat.. If a person is too poor or too cheap to get a stick with a slider that is not anyone else's problem but theirs. If trim on aslider was a cheat then so was track IR.. or any mouse emulation software that allowed a smooth pan view.. How about the better PC cheat? Or the HOTAS cheat.. It just kills me how loosely people toss that word around.. I know exactly what he was doing, and in case you were not aware, his online handle wasn't actually his real name and I have no problem using it. Second, your definition of "cheating" is silly and arbitrary. From my point of reference, and this means how the rest of us on the CoOps went about things. - it was a cheat of sorts. That simple. He was engaging in a practice that wasn't in the spirit of the CoOp. So I'll continue to use that word as it fits best. I don't hold a grudge about it or anything, he never did it to me, and even at the time I thought it was a bit immature at worst. I was just reflecting on it and using it as an example. As for the trim thing - same comments apply. He was exploiting a shortcoming of the sim that allowed an advantage. You don't have to call it cheating, I will, and so do others who don't subscribe to your arbitrary and limited definition to the word. In any case, there's no cause to get excited or overly attached. I'm not - just remembering some things. Cheers Edited June 28, 2014 by Gambit21
von_Tom Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 no one will be able to provide a single shred of evidence for cheating in RoF, BoS or even IL2 1946 for that matter. If you fly online long enough you are going to be accused of cheating by some one simply because you have bruised their ego. I've seen the radar cheat in action and the reticle fire cue cheat. This was probably 4 or 5 years ago though. And you won't get much evidence because server or anti-cheat software isn't good enough to record it. Those that do use it will obviously not want to publicise it. Diminishing the experiences of some is akin to burying one's head in the sand. I agree completely with the cheating/bruised ego bit. Hood
Gambit21 Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 I agree completely with the cheating/bruised ego bit. Hood It's also beside the point. I've been accused of being "unfair" when I screamed down at 750kph from 6000m to kill a guy who was on the deck (as if that was easy to do) but that's different than actually exploiting something to gain an advantage that was never intended as AbMan pointed out. I have to say that other than that once incident, with all my kills I was never accused of cheating even once.
Gambit21 Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 Oh and Bearcat, rereading my post it sounds a bit pissy - wasn't trying for that. Just pointing out some of us define "cheat" a bit differently.
AbortedMan Posted June 28, 2014 Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Oh and Bearcat, rereading my post it sounds a bit pissy - wasn't trying for that. Just pointing out some of us define "cheat" a bit differently. Aye, seconded. EDIT: I meant seconded for my post Edited June 28, 2014 by AbortedMan
Col_StinkFinger Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Life hacks are real. Wow, thanks for the tip. (Seriously)
Easy_Target Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Like others have said, most accusations of cheating are by bad players who refuse to believe that they lost to a much better player. A lot of people misjudge their own skill level, thinking they are good when they are really just average. When they go up against an actually very good player, they assume he must be cheating, as there is no way they could be playing poorly. Edited August 29, 2014 by danbuter
LLv34_Flanker Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 S! The best cheats in any game are not the obvious ones, but the ones that are really hard to spot. Be it a flight sim or a FPS shooter. Cheats or exploits will emerge sooner or later, even for BoS. Original IL-2 was supposed to be cheat free(ish) but it had a plenty. Why would BoS be any different? I do not use cheats nor scream for a cheat if shot down, stuff happens and I know I am not the best of the pilots :D
Mac_Messer Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 S! The best FM/DM cheats are not easy to spot but just within range of making people think of lag or whatnot. We talk about single digit % differences, just enough to make an impact but hard to spot. Say I have a plane easily overheating, no worries just change the parameters a bit to your favor and you get a bit more performance etc. Anyways I do not think the cheating is too prominent in flight sims after all, I think more so in FPS and other mainstream games. A month or so after IL2 1946 was cracked I did just that and entered a IL2 1946 online server. I was not kicked. Few more servers like this made me quit 1946.
LLv34_Flanker Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 S! Dakpilot, maybe he is challenging the devs in his own way. Right or wrong, everyone decide yourself. Swinging the ban hammer won't help except for a short time. Soon the banned players will be back in a way or another. Original IL-2 tried to encrypt the code, but AFAIK was cracked in less than a day by Kegetys(or someone else?) thus enabling modding etc. BoS won't be any different in this matter as devs simply can't afford to invest in making a "hack proof" code nor is it feasible. Cheating is just a sad phenomenon we have to live with, like it or not.
Bearcat Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Incorrect. Cheating in today's online multiplayer games can be as simple as exploiting something that allows a player to utilize a mechanic that affords something that is not intended by the developers or creators of the game. Doesn't matter if everyone has access to it or not. One can easily argue that everyone has access to hacks...doesn't mean it's not cheating. It's a bummer that right now the game is in developmental stages, so it's unfortunately rife with such exploits in different forms as they haven't all been vetted and squashed yet. I just came from a BoS session on the EU server where two people were severely exploiting the 109's elevator trim mechanic to literally rotate almost in place to achieve jaw dropping turns at high speed that would undoubtedly rip any aiframe in half and/or squish a man's guts into paste. I guarantee that if this game's goal is to represent realistic performance of the aircraft included, in this case the 109F4/G2, this sort of performance is not intended nor in the spirit of the game. It's cheating to be exploiting it as such. It's painfully obvious when this sort of exploit is being used, as I could point these certain players out from within a furball on an expert server with no icons. I don't know anyone that doesn't see this and other similar "gaming the game" type behavior as flat out cheating and a problem with the game that needs to be fixed. I know for sure that I would not want to play with anyone that uses this kind of crap just to get ahead...if your goal is to top the scoreboards, then you're playing the wrong genre...and War Thunder is that way----> We can agree to disagree.. I know exactly what he was doing, and in case you were not aware, his online handle wasn't actually his real name and I have no problem using it. Second, your definition of "cheating" is silly and arbitrary. From my point of reference, and this means how the rest of us on the CoOps went about things. - it was a cheat of sorts. That simple. He was engaging in a practice that wasn't in the spirit of the CoOp. So I'll continue to use that word as it fits best. I don't hold a grudge about it or anything, he never did it to me, and even at the time I thought it was a bit immature at worst. I was just reflecting on it and using it as an example. As for the trim thing - same comments apply. He was exploiting a shortcoming of the sim that allowed an advantage. You don't have to call it cheating, I will, and so do others who don't subscribe to your arbitrary and limited definition to the word. In any case, there's no cause to get excited or overly attached. I'm not - just remembering some things. Cheers Still... an exploit and a cheat are two entirely different things... Oh and Bearcat, rereading my post it sounds a bit pissy - wasn't trying for that. Just pointing out some of us define "cheat" a bit differently. Aye, seconded. EDIT: I meant seconded for my post Understood... 1
Johnny_Red Posted August 31, 2014 Posted August 31, 2014 Of course there are cheats/hacks. Anyone who says there aren't is blinkered. This is a computer game every code is hackable. Governments get hacked. Defence departments get hacked. you think this little corner of the virtual world is immune to cheats and the emotionally stunted? Look at the folk who want wonder woman view. Some folk want an advantage over others. In a game that has a selling point of "historical simulation" there is no place for wonder woman view, yet some folk want it. Just as some folk will want a cheat that gives them an advantage, no matter how small, over everybody else. The more popular this game gets the more likely cheats will appear. Whether it's just to piss other players of or to boost their fragile ego.
BigPickle Posted August 31, 2014 Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) Wow, thanks for the tip. (Seriously) Or just put your wine bottle in the fridge... like poor people do. Chaps dont forget about the air start sucker trick. I saw another post quite a time back and I got caught by this crap recently too. So your chasing a guy down, (was Russian team that did this to me) he's trying to escape your chasing..but he has memorized the air spawn location to which he is leading you, then when he is near he quits out to respawn. You think bloody coward, turn for home, he spawns in behind you and blam, good night! Edited August 31, 2014 by BigPickle
Rama Posted August 31, 2014 Posted August 31, 2014 So your chasing a guy down, (was Russian team that did this to me) he's trying to escape your chasing..but he has memorized the air spawn location to which he is leading you, then when he is near he quits out to respawn. You think bloody coward, turn for home, he spawns in behind you and blam, good night! Wow!!! so the guy memorized his exact position with a few dozen meters accuracy, along with spawning orientation and altitude, and leads his pursuer toward this very place with the correct orientation, and then disconnect at the very second allowing to spawn behind him, taking in account the exact delay between the deconnecion and spawn.... My hat of to the one succeeding this, it's a kind of high class artistic "cheat"... ... or is it just an urban legend?
VBF-12_Stick-95 Posted August 31, 2014 Posted August 31, 2014 Was in ROF chasing a guy that went into a cloud. I went in after him as I could still see the outline of his plane, I also kept firing. I shot him down and was immediately accused of cheating as there is "NO WAY" you can see in a cloud. Although there are in-game (and 3rd party such as SweetFX) settings that some may use to enhance their abilities to spot, etc. I don't believe actual hacks exist. I think cheating accusations are just sour grapes. 1
Johnny_Red Posted August 31, 2014 Posted August 31, 2014 Although there are in-game (and 3rd party such as SweetFX) settings that some may use to enhance their abilities to spot, etc. I don't believe actual hacks exist. I think cheating accusations are just sour grapes. That's a pretty naive point of view. Any third party add on that gives a player an advantage over a guy who doesn't use the add on is a cheat in my book. Whats the difference between using SweetFX to enhance ones ability to spot other aircraft and a third party add on that makes it possible to see through clouds? There is no difference. Its like saying "my cheat isn't a cheat because your cheat gives you more advantage than mine does" You can justify it anyway you want but at the end of the day you're modifying the core game to your advantage. That's cheating
BlitzPig_EL Posted August 31, 2014 Posted August 31, 2014 As has been said, the hacks that work are the ones that cannot be seen because they are all client side and do not transfer over the net. How quick we forget, or don't want to believe in the first place. Just a couple I knew of from my decade plus of flying IL2... 1. Parsing the log files to find exact locations of enemy aircraft. 2. Replacing default skins with brightly colored ones so that your friends and enemies alike can be spotted with ease, also works on ground targets. There were more, but most of you don't want to believe it. It's never stopped me from playing and enjoying the sim, but they are out there, and despicable people use them, and will continue to do so. 1
LizLemon Posted August 31, 2014 Posted August 31, 2014 2. Replacing default skins with brightly colored ones so that your friends and enemies alike can be spotted with ease, also works on ground targets. 2 is already very doable. Its also very easy to make everything in the game a wireframe, allowing you certain advantages in visibility. There are also a few other, lets say "fun", things you can do with widely available tools. Not that I've done any of this online, but I definitely know its possible. As far as I can tell there is no anti-cheat of any sort. These are older screenshots but this still works.
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