Do you fly with honor?

[Jaws2002]

I was just playing a round in IL2 1946, my 190 was shot to bits and its engine had quit I was trying to glide back across to the German lines when a Spitfire attacked. I was able to dodge most of his rounds but he soon came back slowed down and got right behind me and fired I was about 100 feed in the air and there was nothing I could do. He clearly saw that my engine was out during his first pass and I even told him so but he still wanted to steal someone else victory (I had been in a dog fight with two P-51Ds), I don't believe that is flying with honor. If a planes engine out I let it go or if a pilot says his elevators have been rendered useless I will let him go as neither of those situation present a challenge to me and don't allow him to fight back. Also I will never shoot a pilot in his chute, doing any of those things is just flying dishonorably and that's not how I fly.

How do you fly like a ruthless cut throat or a knight of the air?

 

 

Let me be that guy looking at this from another perspective. Your fight was not over. You still tried to achieve something for your team -> bring the plane in friendly territory.

 

Why are you complaining when the other guy tried to stop you from doing so?

 If you are done for, and as you said, that P-51 deserved the kill, you should have bailed out when the spit attacked. If your life depended on it, you would have jumped out of that shot-up plane at the first occasion.

 It's a game, get used to it. Honor has nothing to do with it.

[SOLIDKREATE]

I fly with honor. A few days ago I locked in on a Zero and then noticed out of the corner of my screen another F6F chasing him. I rolled in front of the Zero and fired just in front of him making him turn back into my team mate. I have seen guys smoking before trying to land. If I see that I simply pass them and rock my wings and flash my navigation lights as a sort of salute. There are just some people who don't enjoy the sim for what it is. They are mostly (not all) the Call of Duty generation under age 30.Shoulder shooting to me is the biggest cardinal sin of all. Not to mention the endless spawn camping or when the admin stack one nations planes balance completely lop-sided against another. It happens regularly on dog fight servers which is why I now completely refuse to play them. I see a lot people requesting donations to keep them up and running but I see no point or incentive to do so.

Edited June 19, 2014 by SPEKTRE76

[Finkeren]

To me a stricken plane is a kill. If the opponent has lost all ability to fight back, I usually leave him alone.

 

Mind you, I do not do this because of any sense of "honor" or as a friendly gensture. I fly with one primary objective: To survive. Kills and points always come second. Chasing a defeated enemy, who is usually going low and slow, is opening yourself to an ambush.

 

Only if I am absolutely sure, that no other threat is nearby will I pursue the kill, at which point the enemy pilot usually bails out and saves me the trouble,

Edited June 20, 2014 by Finkeren

[FlatSpinMan]

I don't fly with honour. Honour is one of those words that just seems to cause problems.
If I'm in a strike aircraft, better believe I'm going to strafe you on the tarmac - unless it's against server rules. In a fighter I probably won't, but it depends on the circumstances.

If I ever found my own religion (I'd like to call it Jude-ism, but that may prove problematic legally, as I hear they already have that), I'd have just One Commandment:
1. Don't be a jerk.

This is one of my main guiding principles in life, and it is surprisingly flexible, comprehensible, and comprehensive.

 

 

EDIT: AFTER RECEIVING A PM ABOUT THIS POST I SUDDENLY REALISED HOW STRANGE MY COMMENT ABOUT "JUDE-ISM" MUST HAVE SEEMED WITHOUT ONE SMALL, BUT CRUCIAL PIECE OF INFORMATION. THE REASON I MADE THAT COMMENT WAS SIMPLY BECAUSE MY GIVEN NAME IS "Jude", HENCE, Jude-ism.

 

SORRY IF I GAVE THE IMPRESSION I WAS JUST BEING ANTI-SEMITIC!!!

[Finkeren]

Well for real life combat pilots it's propably hard not be a jerk to someone, when your job is to kill or maim other people or at least destroy their expensive machines.

 

For us shooting at 1s and 0s it's kinda easier.

[FlatSpinMan]

Oh, real life is different. In fact, to Octxs3932r7 or whatever his username is, I strongly urge him, if he is successful in his awesome dream of becoming a fighter pilot, to shun fighting honourably and instead, fight to survive and win. In that order. 

[Obelix]

With me, taran is not an option!

[=VARP=Cygann]

Pretty much behavior of players resembles their real life personality, even more amplified with internet anonymity. It's funny though how they always have some near poetic excuses to remain lame. 

 

Ones that are cowards will find some way to rationalize their fear and actions with some bollox how it's fear that keeps you alive...

 

Those without skill will do low blows and try to praise that as something worthy and magnificent, mercy is for the weak, bla bla...

 

Those without honor will not display any and will state how honor only gets you killed, if you can't beat them then join them or some similar cheesy line...

 

But some people are brave, principle and honorable, and those that are not will do all they can to discredit them and label them weak or dumb.

Sadly, majority of human kind don't have what it takes to uphold such high principles, even in games or sports, let alone real dangerous scenarios where your life hangs on the line.

 

But in PC games it can't kill you to try to rise up to the challenge, only thing that can hurt a little until one gets there might be ego and pride now and then. Learn to swallow it and continue, you just might carry some of it back to real life when you turn that PC off.

[VikingFjord]

Let me be that guy looking at this from another perspective. Your fight was not over. You still tried to achieve something for your team -> bring the plane in friendly territory.

 

Why are you complaining when the other guy tried to stop you from doing so?

 If you are done for, and as you said, that P-51 deserved the kill, you should have bailed out when the spit attacked. If your life depended on it, you would have jumped out of that shot-up plane at the first occasion.

 It's a game, get used to it. Honor has nothing to do with it.

got to say that i agree

in war winning is the only thing acceptable

i will not contribute with honor if that's means my team loose  

i have fought enemy's that do the honor thing before both flight sim and in red orchestra

guess what...they died..

[VikingFjord]

as the che said i rather die in my feet than live on my knees, thing that happen when you sell your values

in war there's no value and nothing to sell only things to kill

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Perhaps Honor between enemies is a historical Myth. Though there are several, though none I know of over the East, documentations of such. In the end, I earnestly believe that this is a personal choice. So real, or mythical, each pilot will make their decisions based on what they feel.

 

Chief

[II./JG27_Rich]

Perhaps Honor between enemies is a historical Myth. Though there are several, though none I know of over the East, documentations of such. In the end, I earnestly believe that this is a personal choice. So real, or mythical, each pilot will make their decisions based on what they feel.

 

Chief

If people you've become attatched to have been killed and especially if they've been killed in a messy brutal way in full view I think it would be quite easy to develop a sadistic psychopathic personality towards the enemy. I see it time and time again in soldiers confessions of what actually goes on.

[Valok]

Yes, I'm very honorable.

 

[VikingFjord]

if i ran out of ammo i would ram my enemy too then jump out *lol*
good video btw

Edited June 21, 2014 by VikingFjord

[Volkoff]

I am pushing honor on my opponents, because I am in a relatively poor performing machine, the LaGG-3. It is in my immediate interests to have honorable opponents, for I cannot really escape my opponents if they are otherwise. If I had the superior offensive plane, the BF-109, this would just about sum up my position on the matter of honor:

 

 

 

MJ

Edited June 21, 2014 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

@ Rich ... Had a buddy of mine die in my arms in Vietnam and I guess I still feel a good bit of animosity towards Vietnam today. As you say some wounds are hard to heal. Perhaps having not participated in WW2 (or one) I can be a little more understanding what both sides went through.

 

@ Volok ... War Thunder I presume? And a 262 with unlimited fuel. I always thought suicide to be rather stupid. Historical for sure in many instances, but none the less, stupid waist of a good (assumed) pilot.

 

@ Viking ...... though Flight Sims are classified as a "game", many take their sim piloting much more seriously. Hopefully not to the point of not having fun, but still to the point of not wasting your sim pilots life. But each to their own.

 

@ Mikha ... nice one buddy .... didn't know you were a poet too.

 

Chief

[Gambit21]

@ Rich ... Had a buddy of mine die in my arms in Vietnam and I guess I still feel a good bit of animosity towards Vietnam today. As you say some wounds are hard to heal. Perhaps having not participated in WW2 (or one) I can be a little more understanding what both sides went through.

 

 

Chief

That is something most of us can only imagine - I'm sorry you had that experience.

Me being younger, (my father served in Vietnam) having the benefit of hindesite and knowledge of the overall history, I have

the benefit of having a detached, and not so nationalistic point of view. (not saying you do one way or the other, I have no idea)

 

I'll say one thing -  I'm reading a book called "Cleared Hot", written by a Marine pilot in Vietnam, and the pervasive "we have to stop the commies

now, or what, we stop them at the Mexican border?"... I can't even relate to such silly hysteria. Again though, I didn't have to live

through that era, and I don't fault anyone regardless of their views. The Vietnamese were caught up in something horrible, and they suffered

horribly as did everyone else.

 

I wish more Vietnam veterans would write down their experiences. One thing I find, and this includes my own father, they're far less likely to 

talk about it than WWII vets. They also seem to have more latent anger which runs as an undercurrent and causes them problems to this day. 

This happens with WWII vets too sometimes, but it SEEMS more pervasive with Vietnam vets, and I at least partially get why.

[Jarhead1]

That is something most of us can only imagine - I'm sorry you had that experience.

Me being younger, (my father served in Vietnam) having the benefit of hindesite and knowledge of the overall history, I have

the benefit of having a detached, and not so nationalistic point of view. (not saying you do one way or the other, I have no idea)

 

I'll say one thing -  I'm reading a book called "Cleared Hot", written by a Marine pilot in Vietnam, and the pervasive "we have to stop the commies

now, or what, we stop them at the Mexican border?"... I can't even relate to such silly hysteria. Again though, I didn't have to live

through that era, and I don't fault anyone regardless of their views. The Vietnamese were caught up in something horrible, and they suffered

horribly as did everyone else.

 

I wish more Vietnam veterans would write down their experiences. One thing I find, and this includes my own father, they're far less likely to 

talk about it than WWII vets. They also seem to have more latent anger which runs as an undercurrent and causes them problems to this day. 

This happens with WWII vets too sometimes, but it SEEMS more pervasive with Vietnam vets, and I at least partially get why.

I enlisted in the U.S.M.C. in 1966 and served in Vietnam in late 1966 and 1967. You mention the reluctance of Vietnam era vets to talk about their experience. I find that's common among all combat vets, we all have a problem relating the experience to those who were not exposed to combat. I will share this: I did my job in Nam, killed who needed killing and returned home to be greeted at the airport with thrown chicken blood and shouts of "baby killer". That "greeting" or just plain silence with a look of contempt was the norm for returning Viet vets. That experience may be the reason that not too many Viet vets talk about their experience. Frankly, I can never forgive the country for it's actions against its returning troops.  

Fight with Honor? I had to chuckle at that notion. There is a simple rule in combat; kill him before he kills you.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

If I've got rounds on an E/A and its definitely going down,   I try not chase him down and put extra bullets into him just to make sure or to be vindictive.

 

But I guess that's got more to do with conserving ammunition and not loosing height advantage than anything to do with honour ........

[VikingFjord]

john wayne would and he was honourable, he wouldnt shoot someone in the back 

then i guess i'm not John Wayne

 

@ Viking ...... though Flight Sims are classified as a "game", many take their sim piloting much more seriously. Hopefully not to the point of not having fun, but still to the point of not wasting your sim pilots life. But each to their own.

 

 

Chief

well about being serious..i have been flying close to 20years and login way more then 1000 flying hours a year

how much exactly is hard to say

some times i fly 5hrs a day sometimes 10hrs or sometimes less

yes its a lot..but still im having fun

[SOLIDKREATE]

Yes, I'm very honorable.

 

 

Mouse aim and ramming. You (players like you) are the very reason I do not play WT anymore. I just make skins now. I guess this SIM was bound to be infected with rammers. Hopefully they'll have dedicated servers and we can kick players like that and turn off mouse aim.

[hiro]

honor is joining a server and noticing one team has too many members and deciding to join the lowest common denominator. There's an awesome feeling when 3 guys vs the rest of the world spend their time creeping and felling the bridge they were supposed to protect.

 

honor is watching a overwhelming numerical superior force of fighters picking away at the friendly attack planes after spending minutes getting that high while waiting for the best fighter the opposing side has to come along.  And decide to dive down upon the squadron attacking the ground pounders. 

 

honor is flying so you and your wingman make it back alive unless a more honorable situation presents itself and its time to go out and make one for the history books like the second choice above.

[MarcoRossolini]

I expect my opponent to fly with honour, but not me. 

[VikingFjord]

Mouse aim and ramming. You (players like you) are the very reason I do not play WT anymore.

 

that's one of the reasons why i quite to..another reason is the wrong specifications on the planes.

Edited June 22, 2014 by VikingFjord

[VikingFjord]

very interesting thanks for sharing

 

20 years ago you could only have this perspective of history by travelling to the states and hang around there some time

it's really makes no sense what your saying...i wasn't speaking of perspective of history

[javelina]

Not shooting at a pilot in his parachute, after he's bailed out. 

[ACG_Kraut]

Depends really.

 

If I damage the enemy badly, and I know there aren't any other threats in the area, I'll follow him down and finish the job.

 

Now, if I am the one badly damaged, I fully expect the enemy to let me go so I can attempt to land.

 

I like double standards 

Edited June 22, 2014 by 4./JG26_Kraut

[BlitzPig_EL]

Other than always joining the team that has the fewest players, which is a BlitzPig trademark, (we flew for Japan a lot because most folks wanted the fast birds. Lots of JG guys in P 51s...LOL), if you are an opposing player you are a target.

 

End of story.

 

And personally if I see someone flashing lights and dropping flaps and gear signalling "I surrender, please let me go I'm a Nancy boy.. please..."  well, that guy is singled out for special attention, in a .50 BMG kind of way.

Fight your aeroplane to the death, or bail out of the thing, but don't be a coward about it.

 

Never surrender.

 

On objective based servers, aircraft losses and pilot kills count towards the victory condition.  If you are not there to win, why are you there at all?

Edited June 22, 2014 by ElAurens

[=LG/F=Kathon]

Not shooting at a pilot in his parachute, after he's bailed out. 

At least enemy AA doesn't have any doubts what shall be done with pilot in his parachute:

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2014 by =L/R=Kathon

[SOLIDKREATE]

that's one of the reasons why i quite to..another reason is the wrong specifications on the planes.

 

Yeah I noticed that on all the Russian planes especially the La-5; the FRB specs did NOT change at all. They still had the Arcade FM. For example the turn rate was 18.0sec in AR and 18.0sec in FRB. I pick a Dora and I gain something like 5.0sec over my AR turn rate. At least the Developers here don't have any FM bias that I have seen. It is quite tough fighting a 109 in a LaGG. The La-5 on the other hand may be better but not by much. The 109 is just faster and can B'n'Z all day long.

[Gambit21]

Other than always joining the team that has the fewest players, which is a BlitzPig trademark, (we flew for Japan a lot because most folks wanted the fast birds. Lots of JG guys in P 51s...LOL), if you are an opposing player you are a target.

 

 

That was always me in the old Il2 CoOps, and is the reason I became so good in the Zeke. It became my favorite plane eventually.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

At least enemy AA doesn't have any doubts what shall be done with pilot in his parachute:

 

 

 

 

 

 

At least enemy AA doesn't have any doubts what shall be done with pilot in his parachute:

 

 

 

 

 

THAT IS SOO JOKES

[Valok]

Mouse aim and ramming. You (players like you) are the very reason I do not play WT anymore. I just make skins now. I guess this SIM was bound to be infected with rammers. Hopefully they'll have dedicated servers and we can kick players like that and turn off mouse aim.

O.O

 

It was just a small sarcastic joke in relation to the topic's title, jezz. Why do you think I paid 220 bucks (Don't live in the US) for Il-2 and stopped playing WT?

 

Chill first and think a little more before insulting others.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Valok

[kissklas]

 

How do you fly like a ruthless cut throat or a knight of the air?

 

I try flying chivalrous, and I always admire good enemy pilots:)

I am not the greatest of pilots though, and very new to IL-2 in expert mode.

 

I have shot down the occasional friendly by mistake, and I have done a few attacks on sitting ducks (air fields and what not).

Not to mention crashing into targets, and buildings. But it's getting there.

 

I do however dream of tipping my wing to a descending, beaten enemy.

A "well played", before taking off. Like in the stories told by WWII fighters.

 

So on that basis I guess my answer is; knightly... but more in the style of Don Quijote.

 

Sometimes you don't see it's a windmill before it's to late.

[MarcoRossolini]

If I know my enemies defeated and going down or struggling away with a dying engine, I'll often let him go if I'm certain he's not going to present a threat. I'd like to think it's me being chivalrous but it's more that I want to save ammo and situational awareness. If I get stuck on one guy and I let another guy get behind me...?

[Karost]

"How do you fly like a ruthless cut throat or a knight of the air?"

 

for me it's depend on

-- mission

-- server rules

-- situation.

 

same like other friends said if I take bomber role .. taking my FW190 A-9 with 500 kg bomb .... I be happy if I see a  plane with big black smoke try to landing 

on the runway which that is my primary target :D ... LOL

 

one good memory in very long time ago in hyper lobby(IL2) I join  Revan DF server (full switch )which have 4 member playing on the big map , I  take bf109F

searching for 30 min. along and I found  1x yak-1  on the deck , we made turn to shooting each other yak's pilot has a very very good skill flying

he made so... beautiful turning on the deck which I cannot turn with him, so my 20 mm can not hit him to making a major hit ,

all I have is defection shooting skill using machine gun ping him at 90" df shooting until made him black smoke , he can not bail out because it too low

so he manage a perfect bail landing  I fly turn around with respect in his skill flying.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Karost

[Suicidal]

I do whatever it takes to make the enemy and his plane combat ineffective. If you are on fire I break away and let you burn, even if the fire goes out its unlikely your plane is in any shape to continue the fight. If your engine has quit then I will break off and look for something actually dangerous to me and other pilots. If you are in your chute... Well then it just depends on if I like you or not.  If you are landing, or taking off, and your plane appears undamaged then I am going to make sure it wont be back in the air anytime soon or in the air for very long. Honor is one thing, winning the fight and living to tell about it is more important in my book.

Edited June 27, 2014 by RideRed

[Suicidal]

Yeah I noticed that on all the Russian planes especially the La-5; the FRB specs did NOT change at all. They still had the Arcade FM. For example the turn rate was 18.0sec in AR and 18.0sec in FRB. I pick a Dora and I gain something like 5.0sec over my AR turn rate. At least the Developers here don't have any FM bias that I have seen. It is quite tough fighting a 109 in a LaGG. The La-5 on the other hand may be better but not by much. The 109 is just faster and can B'n'Z all day long.

 

 

The 109 E4's in CloD were much faster than the Spitfire 1a's, but I still managed a 4-1 kill ratio in the ATAG server against them. If the Yak 1 proves to be as good or better a match for BoS axis fighters then I wont even bother purchasing the LA-5. Its all about knowing the enemy strengths and weaknesses as well as you know your own. After that its all about who makes the first mistake. Of course, if you have a 109 that so seriously outperforms your aircraft(as in the case of the LaGG-3) that no matter how well you fly and how bad your enemy flies you will still lose, then its time to start looking for a better aircraft. Hopefully the Yak works well enough I wont have to consider the LA-5.

[LoneMerc]

I ran threw this very issue tonight and shot down a Russian with wheels down going to land. I just happen to catch him and he flamed and went down. I fly Stuka and bomb always and as I see it I was protecting myself so I can make it home, If he saw me first I was a dead man, that's how I see it for me as a bomber pilot if I see the chance to take out a fighter just before or after the bomb run I'm increasing my chance of getting back home. I thought about of a sec, felt bad but had to do it to survive, landed safe.

 

Fighter on fighter mischief that's up to you guys. As a bomber pilot think the reasoning is sound.

[Chuck_Owl]