Bf-109 G-2 1.42 ata modifcation?

[Roland_HUNter]

Hi there, here I found the original hungarian maintence book for the 109 G-2.
The hungarians translated it from the:
1.Bf-109 G-2 Bedienungsvorschrift(operating instructions) 1942 July.
2.DB 605 A-B engines handbook 1942 november
This book released in 1943 march.
In the book the 1.42 ata is allowed for the G-2.
 

 

m08_bf109g2.zip

[gimpy117]

and the p40 ran at 70" in Africa, but that was the Americans and not the Russians, and the Hungarians are not the Germans 

[Roland_HUNter]

And? ?
Hungarians flew under german command on the eastern front. They used the G-2 like the germans.

[gimpy117]

5 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

And? ?
Hungarians flew under german command on the eastern front. They used the G-2 like the germans.

and the soviets flew a plane flat out with literally the same engine...and the clearly could care less about the handbook. besides we have documentation showing use of the Alison far and away above it's glass engine, yet the devs feel prewar limits are reasonable. my point is, because one Hungarian source says so clearly isn't enough I was using the P-40 as a comparison to the claim   

[Roland_HUNter]

15 hours ago, gimpy117 said:

and the soviets flew a plane flat out with literally the same engine...and the clearly could care less about the handbook. besides we have documentation showing use of the Alison far and away above it's glass engine, yet the devs feel prewar limits are reasonable. my point is, because one Hungarian source says so clearly isn't enough I was using the P-40 as a comparison to the claim   

Nope, your first point was: "was the Americans and not the Russians, and the Hungarians are not the Germans  "
And that is why I gave you that asnwer.
First time you not mentioned the different behaving. You mentioned the americans and russians not used the P-40 in the same way, so You thought the hungarians not used the same way as the germans, you tried to assume a parelell But:
Your point was wrong, because hungarians flew like the germans, because they was under german command on the Eastern Front.
The Engine limit comparsion like that is, was wrong.
In your second comment you now talking about that, the devs do not care about sources or different usage in the real life.
PS: 1 hungarian source says what is based on 2 german official documents, what is used by the entire Luftwaffe, if that's it enough, then nothing.

[CUJO_1970]

Roland - please ignore him.

 

 

On 5/30/2021 at 7:38 PM, Roland_HUNter said:

Hi there, here I found the original hungarian maintence book for the 109 G-2.
The hungarians translated it from the:
1.Bf-109 G-2 Bedienungsvorschrift(operating instructions) 1942 July.
2.DB 605 A-B engines handbook 1942 november
This book released in 1943 march.
In the book the 1.42 ata is allowed for the G-2.
 

 

m08_bf109g2.zip 259.42 kB · 7 downloads

 

It would be an interesting addition - especially for Hungarian units operating on the eastern front as it is actually cleared at this time in the published handbook, unlike some of the other settings that get bandied about on the forums.

 

Would be interesting to see how long the G-2 with this setting was used by the Hungarians, I believe it was cleared for only a short period of time before the G2 was replaced by German units so I think they didn't use it very long. (Not sure about that though)

Edited June 3, 2021 by CUJO_1970

[Roland_HUNter]

59 minutes ago, CUJO_1970 said:

Roland - please ignore him.

 

 

 

It would be an interesting addition - especially for Hungarian units operating on the eastern front as it is actually cleared at this time in the published handbook, unlike some of the other settings that get bandied about on the forums.

 

Would be interesting to see how long the G-2 with this setting was used by the Hungarians, I believe it was cleared for only a short period of time before the G2 was replaced by German units so I think they didn't use it very long. (Not sure about that though)

Hungarians got their G-2s in 1943 july and they used it until 1943 december-1944 january when they switched to G-6.
I guess they was under training  to G-2 near Budapest or at Székesfehérvár-Börgönd(The germans used it from 1943, JG-107 trained many hungarian pilots at the Börgönd airport - Modern name is: Alba Airport), when they translated the manual for the G-2 in 1943 march.
PS: The Hungarians built some G-4s in Győri Vagon- és Gépgyár, Győr for themselfs, so they used it  paralell with the G-2.

[gimpy117]

7 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

Nope, your first point was: "was the Americans and not the Russians, and the Hungarians are not the Germans  "
And that is why I gave you that asnwer.
First time you not mentioned the different behaving. You mentioned the americans and russians not used the P-40 in the same way, so You thought the hungarians not used the same way as the germans, you tried to assume a parelell But:
Your point was wrong, because hungarians flew like the germans, because they was under german command on the Eastern Front.
The Engine limit comparsion like that is, was wrong.
In your second comment you now talking about that, the devs do not care about sources or different usage in the real life.
PS: 1 hungarian source says what is based on 2 german official documents, what is used by the entire Luftwaffe, if that's it enough, then nothing.

that still doesn't explain the discrepancy between what data we have and what this handbook is claiming. why don't we see German Documents authorizing the same thing? if they flew like the Germans why didn't German books say it or are you saying that the Hungarian source references German documents? if so, where are they?-Im actually genuinely curious here. That being said, I was more or less stating precedent here, and, with the case of the P40, one document not from the original source claiming higher engine limits does not seem to be enough for the devs. I would guess if we found the original German documents referenced it would be a different matter. 

[Roland_HUNter]

Where is the german document what is forbid the 1.42 ata in 1942 november? Show me.

Look what I found for you:

https://kupdf.net/download/bf-109-g-2-handbuch-mit-motor-db-605-1942pdf_5a5cb652e2b6f5ca6c89e227_pdf

Page 19 says 1.42 is forbidden. But this manual is released in 1942 june.

 

Here the 1942 July version in english:
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/en/hist/pdf/bf109g2_english.zip

 

If you read the foreword, this is released in 1942 july as I said. The hungarians translated it as well.
There is no more prohibition about 1.42 ata at the Engine RPMs and pressures.

I cannot say anything more, I'm laic in the P-40 engine topic, but I do not rule it out you are right.
Another, same example as your problem, but the devs sadly not said anything about it:

 

[Eisenfaustus]

The problem that lead to the restriction was engine specific, not airframe specific. Engines produced after a certain point in time had a fix. So obviously a G2 that got a new engine during maintenance could also be cleared for 1,42 ata. 
On the other hand I have no idea how many G2 „late“ were actually retrofitted with large wheels making them effectively g4s with old radios I can’t say. 

[Dakpilot]

Engine run in procedure requires high power to bed in piston rings, otherwise massive oil consumption 

 

A report on this process was posted. 

 

It should not be used as evidence of operational use

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

On Page 13 of the Document, what is the Figure for 350km/h? Is it best Glide/Engine Off Speed?

[Roland_HUNter]

8 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

On Page 13 of the Document, what is the Figure for 350km/h? Is it best Glide/Engine Off Speed?

"anzeige bei augefahrerenfahrwerk"? This mean operating limit when the landig gear is down.
https://www.docdroid.com/riqy9bv/messerschmitt-bf-109g-2-flight-and-maintenance-manual-pdf#page=12

[Kurfurst]

On 6/4/2021 at 1:14 AM, gimpy117 said:

that still doesn't explain the discrepancy between what data we have and what this handbook is claiming. why don't we see German Documents authorizing the same thing? if they flew like the Germans why didn't German books say it or are you saying that the Hungarian source references German documents? if so, where are they?-Im actually genuinely curious here. That being said, I was more or less stating precedent here, and, with the case of the P40, one document not from the original source claiming higher engine limits does not seem to be enough for the devs. I would guess if we found the original German documents referenced it would be a different matter. 

[gimpy117]

19 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

who is this the British? still not a German doument. You know there's documents from the actual engine manufacturer for the P40 saying similar things, yet, that's not enough. I have a feeling, that rightly, the devs are sticking to their precedent.