Statistics of Combat Box and Finnish VirtualPilots visualized

[iFoxRomeo]

So I had some questions about certain aspects, hence I thought lets have a look at the stats both server provide.

The numbers are already telling a lot, but visualizing them in diagrams is better.

 

I concentrated on:

Air to air aspect

Flight hours per airframe

Kills per hour, as I think that is what has impact on the server/game experience for air to air combat. Not kills per death. For me, KpD are an ego thing in an virtual environment where pilot lives are unlimited. Nothing wrong with trying to get a high KpD, but it doesn't really tell something about the outcome of a mission.

If pilots are limited, KpD is a relevant number, e.g. in a real war.

 

I took the data of the first quarter 2021. I took the kills per hour * flighthours. That leads to very slight discrepancies to the kill numbers on the stats page, but these differences are so small that they are not relevant. E.g. Finnish FW 190 A-3 Stats page 6310 kills, my calculation 6323 -> 0,2% discrepancy

 

Combat box' planeset is mission based, and mainly late war stuff. Airframes are limited, some more, some less.

Finnish has a dynamic mission and a rotating planeset. Afaik the only airframe that is limited is the Me262.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

So they are not directly comparable to each other, and a direct comparison is not the reason for these diagrams. I just wanted to see how the different aircraft compare to each other within the server environment.

I hope you find it interesting.

 

Reference is 6500 units, e.g. 6500 kills or flight hours.

A second set of stats is made with reference 2500 for a more detailed view, but hidden in the spoiler tab to declutter this post.

 

On the X-Axis is the airframe, Y-Axis is the amount of flight hours or kills that airframe achieved in this QT/month.

On some diagramms a "Z" appears on the X-Axis. That is just a placeholder, to have the same amount of entries for Red and Blue so that the graphs are in the same relation.

 

Orange = Flighthours

Red = Kills for red

Blue = Kills for blue

 

Ground kills are not included.

 

Let's start with Combat Box

 

January 2021

Reference 2500:

Spoiler

 

 

 

February 2021

Reference 2500

Spoiler

 

March 2021

Reference 2500

Spoiler

 

 

Summary of 1.QT 2021

 

 

 

 

Now lets move to Finnish Virtual Pilots

 

Whole 1.QT 2021

 

 

 

As it is interesting to see how every aircraft type performs, but as on Finnish Server the mission is dynamic and the planeset rotates, I averaged the planesets.

E.g. the most kills in 1.QT go to Spitfire IXe. But this aircraft is available for 66,7% of the whole server time. So how does it perform on average per planeset? With that average stat it is possible to see the impact this aircraft has during a planeset where it appears. It is highly likely the spit performes better in planesets with midwar enemy aircraft, and less effective in planesets with latewar enemy aircraft. Would be interesting to have stats per planeset.

 

 

Averaged flight hours and kills during 1.QT 2021

Reference 2500

Spoiler

 

 

 

Fox

 

 

 

[DD_Arthur]

This must mean something...to someone...somewhere....

[KoN_]

So what are you saying here . 

[RedKestrel]

3 hours ago, KoN_ said:

So what are you saying here . 

Theoretically it would show how effective each aircraft is per hour of flight time in Air-to-Air.

But its difficult to do that since many of the sorties are undoubtedly air to ground, and some types are more likely to run air to ground than others. It's interesting but I think there's too many conflicting factors to draw conclusions. 

For example, the P-38 is an extremely common ground attacker on CB, along with the P-47, so this analysis would include a lot of missions where there was no attempt to shoot down enemy fighters at all. P-51s too are used as fighter bombers fairly frequently while spitfires not so much.


 

[CountZero]

it shows hispano is king and raf rules the world in il-2 game ? long live the king!

[ITAF_Airone1989]

15 hours ago, iFoxRomeo said:

 

On the X-Axis is the airframe, Y-Axis is the amount of flight hours or kills that airframe achieved in this QT/month.

On some diagramms a "Z" appears on the X-Axis. That is just a placeholder, to have the same amount of entries for Red and Blue so that the graphs are in the same relation.

 

 

 

But why did you analyzed just the -Axis planes??

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[CountZero]

24 minutes ago, ITAF_Airone1989 said:

 

But why did you analyzed just the -Axis planes??

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It just shows how stats are bias, i suggest limiting what ever needs to be limit

[iFoxRomeo]

On 5/23/2021 at 11:58 AM, KoN_ said:

So what are you saying here . 

Well, it's just the numbers visualized.

It shows popularity, use and the aircrafts share of the kills on the servers - but only the air to air aspect.

 

 

On 5/23/2021 at 3:41 PM, RedKestrel said:

Theoretically it would show how effective each aircraft is per hour of flight time in Air-to-Air.

But its difficult to do that since many of the sorties are undoubtedly air to ground, and some types are more likely to run air to ground than others. It's interesting but I think there's too many conflicting factors to draw conclusions. 

For example, the P-38 is an extremely common ground attacker on CB, along with the P-47, so this analysis would include a lot of missions where there was no attempt to shoot down enemy fighters at all. P-51s too are used as fighter bombers fairly frequently while spitfires not so much.


 

Of course did the ground attackers not perform well in that role. But that is irrelevant. The stats do not directly show the effectiveness of the airframe, but what the airframe DID actually achieve in air to air during 1.QT. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes the P-38 is mostly used in the air to ground role. On Combat box the P-47D-22 didn't fly with bombs in 1.QT 2021. The P-47D-28 was more used for ground attack than for a2a, ratio was 12 to 7.

 

But the stats don't support you claim for the P-51.

Stats filtered:

 

-b -> without bombs

+b -> with bombs

 

 

On 5/23/2021 at 4:59 PM, ITAF_Airone1989 said:

 

But why did you analyzed just the -Axis planes??

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Oh. I forgot the +Axis planes

 

 

Fox

[RedKestrel]

4 minutes ago, iFoxRomeo said:

Well, it's just the numbers visualized.

It shows popularity, use and the aircrafts share of the kills on the servers - but only the air to air aspect.

 

 

Of course did the ground attackers not perform well in that role. But that is irrelevant. The stats do not directly show the effectiveness of the airframe, but what the airframe DID actually achieve in air to air during 1.QT. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes the P-38 is mostly used in the air to ground role. On Combat box the P-47D-22 didn't fly with bombs in 1.QT 2021. The P-47D-28 was more used for ground attack than for a2a, ratio was 12 to 7.

 

But the stats don't support you claim for the P-51.

Stats filtered:

 

-b -> without bombs

+b -> with bombs

 

 

Oh. I forgot the +Axis planes

 

 

Fox

What claim is not supported by that chart? P-51Ds on Combat Box flew 25% of their flight hours with bombs. That's pretty significant. Also they had less air kills when flying with bombs, which shows that a plane type that gets used more frequently as a fighter-bomber will show a reduced effectiveness in the stats compared to a fighter that is used more occasionally in air to ground. 

If you want to show A2A effectiveness only, and you are able to sort out with bombs and without bombs runs (which I didn't know was possible), then it might be more clear if you just compared the 'without bombs' stats for all planes. That would show the effectiveness of the planes when outfitted for A2A role.

Then you could compare the with-bombs stats to compare which airframes are more effective fighters even when attacking. This would be very interesting to see IMO. 

With all three analyses you could see which was best 'overall', which was best in 'pure fighter' and which was best while in 'attacker' role. My hunch is that planes with good low alt performance would rank best in the Attacker role for fighting off enemy fighters, while planes like the P-47 which is a dog down low do much worse. 

If you are looking to measure actual achievements I think the purpose of the sortie is important, but that is my opinion. It's still a decent comparison between the fighters but I think that conflating the two types of sorties makes it less useful. 

As for the P-47 not flying with bombs in the first quarter of 2021 on CombatBox...that HAS to be a stats bug, because I personally flew several sorties with bombs, sometimes in formation with other D-22 with bombs. See examples here in:

January: Sortie: 07.01.2021 - 23:51 / RedKestrel / COMBAT BOX (IL2 stats)

And here in february:Sortie: 13.02.2021 - 19:50 / RedKestrel / COMBAT BOX (IL2 stats)

I didn't fly online at all in March so I have nothing from there. But I counted at least 11 sorties with bombs and rockets in January and February. Something is off there. Not with your analysis, of course, but with the data.


 

[iFoxRomeo]

30 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

P-51Ds on Combat Box flew 25% of their flight hours with bombs. That's pretty significant.

Well, I don't consider 25% as "your words: frequently". Frequently for me is >50%

 

Neither did I show the effectiveness, nor was that the intention. You brought up the therm "effective", and I answered the following.

I quote myself:

55 minutes ago, iFoxRomeo said:

The stats do not directly show the effectiveness of the airframe, but what the airframe DID actually achieve in air to air during 1.QT. Nothing more, nothing less.

I checked both P-47D, and was wondering, why there were no "bomb hours" for the -22. So thank you, obviously the filtering or stats collecting mechanism does have a bug.

 

 

It is very time consuming to get the data together and the problem with filtering the bombing flights out is even more time consuming.

 

Fox

Edited May 26, 2021 by iFoxRomeo

[RedKestrel]

6 minutes ago, iFoxRomeo said:

Well, I don't consider 25% as "your words: frequently". Frequently for me is >50%

 

Neither did I show the effectiveness, nor was that the intention. You brought up the therm "effective", and I answered the following.

I quote myself:

I checked both P-47D, and was wondering, why there were no "bomb hours" for the -22. So thank you, obviously the filtering or stats collecting mechanism does have a bug.

 

 

It is very time consuming to get the data together and the problem with filtering the bombing flights out is even more time consuming.

 

Fox

For the P-51, I suppose it is quite subjective. I said 'fairly frequently' based on seeing a notable number of Mustangs being used as attackers when I fly. 

There have been a few bugs with the stats system when new planes are introduced, as well as other changes to the system. It can make it hard at times to use the data for things like this, because entire swaths of data could be wrong or just missing for certain planes. I think in some cases there were times when destroying certain types of planes didn't register a kill in the stats as well.

 

On 5/22/2021 at 7:09 PM, iFoxRomeo said:

So I had some questions about certain aspects, hence I thought lets have a look at the stats both server provide.

The numbers are already telling a lot, but visualizing them in diagrams is better.

 

I concentrated on:

Air to air aspect

Flight hours per airframe

Kills per hour, as I think that is what has impact on the server/game experience for air to air combat. Not kills per death. For me, KpD are an ego thing in an virtual environment where pilot lives are unlimited. Nothing wrong with trying to get a high KpD, but it doesn't really tell something about the outcome of a mission.

If pilots are limited, KpD is a relevant number, e.g. in a real war.

 

I took the data of the first quarter 2021. I took the kills per hour * flighthours. That leads to very slight discrepancies to the kill numbers on the stats page, but these differences are so small that they are not relevant. E.g. Finnish FW 190 A-3 Stats page 6310 kills, my calculation 6323 -> 0,2% discrepancy

 

Combat box' planeset is mission based, and mainly late war stuff. Airframes are limited, some more, some less.

Finnish has a dynamic mission and a rotating planeset. Afaik the only airframe that is limited is the Me262.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

So they are not directly comparable to each other, and a direct comparison is not the reason for these diagrams. I just wanted to see how the different aircraft compare to each other within the server environment.

I hope you find it interesting.

 

Reference is 6500 units, e.g. 6500 kills or flight hours.

A second set of stats is made with reference 2500 for a more detailed view, but hidden in the spoiler tab to declutter this post.

 

On the X-Axis is the airframe, Y-Axis is the amount of flight hours or kills that airframe achieved in this QT/month.

On some diagramms a "Z" appears on the X-Axis. That is just a placeholder, to have the same amount of entries for Red and Blue so that the graphs are in the same relation.

 

Orange = Flighthours

Red = Kills for red

Blue = Kills for blue

 

Ground kills are not included.

 

Let's start with Combat Box

 

January 2021

Reference 2500:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

February 2021

Reference 2500

  Reveal hidden contents

 

March 2021

Reference 2500

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Summary of 1.QT 2021

 

 

 

 

Now lets move to Finnish Virtual Pilots

 

Whole 1.QT 2021

 

 

 

As it is interesting to see how every aircraft type performs, but as on Finnish Server the mission is dynamic and the planeset rotates, I averaged the planesets.

E.g. the most kills in 1.QT go to Spitfire IXe. But this aircraft is available for 66,7% of the whole server time. So how does it perform on average per planeset? With that average stat it is possible to see the impact this aircraft has during a planeset where it appears. It is highly likely the spit performes better in planesets with midwar enemy aircraft, and less effective in planesets with latewar enemy aircraft. Would be interesting to have stats per planeset.

 

 

Averaged flight hours and kills during 1.QT 2021

Reference 2500

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Fox

 

 

 

I'm sorry, It's not my intent to put words in your mouth or misrepresent you.

 

But if you are comparing average flight hours and kills across aircraft types, I don't see any other way to describe the analysis than as an attempt to compare their efficiency at shooting down other planes in a certain environment. If we're not meant to try and draw conclusions from it then why show it? You've clearly put a lot of time and effort into it.

And if we are meant to draw conclusions from it, the first thing I want to do is see if there's any reason the way the data is presented might be flawed for a certain conclusion. Its not personal, its just how I look at it.
 

[357th_KW]

There are definitely some bugs with certain aircraft stats not being able to filter for bombs or engine mods.  I had noticed this with the 47s, 190As, and G6 late - there may be others as well.