2 questions about the future of this sim

[Mainstay]

Love the sim but I would like to know 2 things that could ease my mind. 
 

1 - Can we expect the sim to get a major graphic engine overhaul or a complete new one like a couple of other civil and combat sims out there. I really feel it’s starting to show it’s age compared to others out there. 
 

2 - Will the pacific scene be a thing? I really want to fly Zero, Corsair and Dauntless again like the olden days. 
 

Thank you for all the hard work so far and keep it up ?? 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1) It's unlikely this'll happen soon. That being said, the current engine is far from being used to its limits yet. Take the Velikie Luki summer map for instance, which looks much better than the other maps. Also, check out this mod:

It tremendously improves the clouds.

 

2) The Devs have stated a number of times that they would like to do a Pacific volume, but there's simply not enough data available on the Japanese planes. As far as I'm aware, that's still the current situation.

[Rei-sen]

You're more likely to get other stuff, like drivable trucks or new tanks. Which is of course more essential for a flight simulator...

Edited May 10, 2021 by Arthur-A

[Noisemaker]

5 minutes ago, Arthur-A said:

You're more likely to get other stuff, like drivable trucks or new tanks. Which is of course more essential for a flight simulator...

I, for one, like the tanks.

I also like the Hurricane, the Yak 9(s), the U-2, the Spit Vb, etc, that the flight sim developers worked on.

I also like the crossover development of dynamic damage and squadron markings that this brought about!

Sure, there's still some buggy AI stuff to work out, but generally I'm pretty happy.  Releasing more trucks or tanks knowing that that's a completely other team than the flight sim team, is the least of my worries.

[Jade_Monkey]

5 hours ago, Arthur-A said:

You're more likely to get other stuff, like drivable trucks or new tanks. Which is of course more essential for a flight simulator...

How is Great Battles Series Tank Crew a flight sim?

 

To answer OPs question, i think they have been thinking about a full engine change but they've only vaguely hinted at it.

 

Personally I don't think they will port the entire game to the new engine, they will start a fresh with a new battle and a new series will start. They might close the cycle on the current series, perhaps do one more expansion like late eastern front. Once that is done, move on to the new engine going forward. That is just my opinion based on "reading between the lines", there are no official statements about those plans.

[Motherbrain]

I suspect the Pacific theater isn't going to happen in the current Il2 title on this engine sadly.

 

I was pretty upset when Normandy was announced, since I was dead certain the PTO was going to be next. The Japanese flag is still on the aircraft selection menu for quick missions and both Japanese and Italians are faction options in the FMB.

 

I'm not going to be as foolish now as I was then. Whatever is next I will cherish and enjoy, since speculating is pointless.

 

To be honest I might actually not want a PTO expansion for Il2GB, since given the level of detail required we'd probably end up with maybe only a couple Japanese planes flyable and the rest AI only. I'd rather wait for a "less detailed" version of Il2 were we can fly all the different types beacuse less data is required for them. Including bombers.

 

As for the engine, it still looks pretty good IMO. Though an upgrade would always be nice.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Motherbrain

[Oyster_KAI]

As far as I know, the Ministry of Defense of Japan and civilian military researchers have collected a lot of WWII aircraft Operating manuals.
Clear cockpit photos and equipment details are more scarce than data, But I think money can solve everything.

If many people in Japan can provide more enthusiastic assistance, it should save a lot of money, but this is unlikely.
Anyway, in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, and China, so many flight simulation players are unwilling to join IL-2GB, just because there is no PTO in the game.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Oyster_KAI

[JG27_Steini]

1 hour ago, Oyster_KAI said:

As far as I know, the Ministry of Defense of Japan and civilian military researchers have collected a lot of WWII aircraft Operating manuals.
Clear cockpit photos and equipment details are more scarce than data, But I think money can solve everything.

If many people in Japan can provide more enthusiastic assistance, it should save a lot of money, but this is unlikely.
Anyway, in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, and China, so many flight simulation players are unwilling to join IL-2GB, just because there is no PTO in the game.

 

It makes absolutely sense to build a PTO theatre. From an economic state i am not so sure. Old IL2 PTO was never as famous as the europe theatre. I am not sure whether PTO would sell as good as other IL2 modules. You might gonna leave some european customers alone. And europe + america is the core of WW2 gaming enthusiast. I rarely have met people from asia. 

[Feathered_IV]

40 minutes ago, JG27_Steini said:

europe + america is the core of WW2 gaming enthusiast. I rarely have met people from asia. 

It’s all about time zones.  Personally I rarely meet people from europe + america. 

[Ala13_UnopaUno_VR]

It is speculating in the long term, and it does not make sense, normandia still needs to be left and, being optimistic, it still comes out completely after 2022, then another battle will come, in Europe ... add another 2 years or more, the only face lift it would really be the theme of the environment / realistic quality day and night backgrounds / clouds / lighting / atmospheric effects / rain / snow, vegetation textures. Only with this and with this graphic engine we would feel that we are in another simulator completely, we still lack many basic arrangements, that give us this immersion since 90% of the time you spend it flying, and you want to feel that you are flying ^^ feeling of depth , wrapped in the immensity of the clouds, the climatic changes, the realistic lighting ... I intuit that the developers also fly other simulators apart from their own, and can get ideas and ways of doing that can help it to grow or enlarge even more, and that is what I really hope, a good optimization in general and in VR (it is the near future of simulation) in particular to make the virtual pilot feel that you are flying first, and then feel that you are in A war that there I have no complaints, we have many varied aircraft (I still lack four engines) and you feel the combat, I for my part would not need more:
No more DLC's
If more priority improves the environment

With all this my greatest admiration for this simulator, which is where I spend the most time, although sometimes I still fall in love every second in the air in a DCS environment (beautiful)

[Dragon1-1]

Planes of Fame has enough examples of the most famous Japanese aircraft to make a BoBP-sized release for the PTO. I think it's a good place to start, I think it's a the largest collection of Japanese WWII aircraft in the world. They might also have documentation for them.

 

I would love to see PTO, with carrier ops and everything. 

[JG27_Steini]

1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

It’s all about time zones.  Personally I rarely meet people from europe + america. 

 

Sure, but does have asian countries a solid WW2 player base as europe has? I do remember 18 years ago as "Pacific fighters" was realeased we were all hyped. Some weeks later 80% of the community went back to europe theatres. It was just more enjoyable and i have not seen many PTO server or online wars or other events around the pacific.

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by JG27_Steini

[Angry_Kitten]

Pacific doesnt matter much to flight simulators.

 

Pontless to even suggest that the developers should make a game module completely for chinese customers, when the chinese government can and will block online access, and sale of the game, if it doesnt make the chinese communist party out as the most wonderful thing in the world. 

[Zooropa_Fly]

By the time we've got FC2, Normandy.. add to that PTO..

I'm going to have to start loading the game up the night before I want to play !

 

I'm sure I read a while back that one of the issues with the PTO was the distances involved, and lack of terra firma.

It would presumably require aircraft carriers which I could imagine being a lot of work and performance-heavy.

Maybe we'll get a driveable one and be able to man the big guns ?

 

It's unlikely the Japanese would want to re-live much of ww2, so I don't see a huge potential market over there.

 

S!

 

[Angry_Kitten]

3 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

By the time we've got FC2, Normandy.. add to that PTO..

I'm going to have to start loading the game up the night before I want to play !

 

I'm sure I read a while back that one of the issues with the PTO was the distances involved, and lack of terra firma.

It would presumably require aircraft carriers which I could imagine being a lot of work and performance-heavy.

Maybe we'll get a driveable one and be able to man the big guns ?

 

It's unlikely the Japanese would want to re-live much of ww2, so I don't see a huge potential market over there.

 

S!

 

Well the Japanese HAVE been reliving, and rewriting the war according to school text books.   

 

In order to make a pacific theatre game that would b e allowed in each country, china and japan would require their own versions.  Perhaps 50-60% of the content would need to be changed for each of these versions from an historically accurate one for America

[DetCord12B]

11 hours ago, Mainstay said:

Love the sim but I would like to know 2 things that could ease my mind. 
 

1 - Can we expect the sim to get a major graphic engine overhaul or a complete new one like a couple of other civil and combat sims out there. I really feel it’s starting to show it’s age compared to others out there. 
 

2 - Will the pacific scene be a thing? I really want to fly Zero, Corsair and Dauntless again like the olden days. 
 

Thank you for all the hard work so far and keep it up ?? 

 

1.) It's been hinted at by the development team several times but really only discussed, as far as we know. If there is any real meaningful development into a new engine we have no idea. I agree however, and much like the RV4 Engine, this one is past it's use by date considering how old (RoF) it really is. Granted, the team has made great strides in improving DNE but you can only slap lipstick on the same pig so many times. This is an obvious problem concerning Arma and RV4 and they know it, which is why there is zero development into Arma 4 using the Enfusion Engine.

 

Will we ever see DCS, MSFS, P3D, and XP like visuals? Anyone's guess...

 

2.) I'd love to see it. Again though, it's an engine limitation issue. Carrier operations involved hundreds of aircraft per carrier group aloft or in prep at the same time and the current engine simply can't handle it. The AI tends to either shutdown or dump frames the more you toss into a single instance. I spose' they could do a highly restricted/dumbed-down version, but would anyone really want that?   

 

10 hours ago, Arthur-A said:

You're more likely to get other stuff, like drivable trucks or new tanks. Which is of course more essential for a flight simulator...

 

I like TC. It's primary issue is that the visual fidelity of the vehicles doesn't match that of the terrain, like at all. The engine was built for aerial combat with the terrain as an afterthought. They could probably mitigate this by using better DTED, higher resolution ground textures, normal's coupled with new, high res, denser foliage and grass sprites, and a better TDD render. However, they just don't seem interested.

 

All of these aforementioned facets come down to a willingness to dedicate time to improving their product and of course funding. Funding, funding, funding. A whole slew of people want the Pacific as a theater, a whole slew of people want to see the terrain and environment match that of the vehicles in TC and not look like a game from the early 2000's (the terrain is awful, IMHO). But it always comes down to money.

 

Contrary to what some people think, these guys are not driving Bugatti Chiron's or sipping Cristal at some Russian club. They're a small team that works their ass off doing what they do under tight deadlines with the budget they're given. I know people have concerns and gripes and issues, but they aren't Ubi or EA or even DTR. Cut them some slack occasionally.  

[kendo]

14 hours ago, Mainstay said:

Love the sim but I would like to know 2 things that could ease my mind. 
 

1 - Can we expect the sim to get a major graphic engine overhaul or a complete new one like a couple of other civil and combat sims out there. I really feel it’s starting to show it’s age compared to others out there. 
...

 

Regarding your first question, they are aware on this. Jason recently posted in a thread for the Cloud mod with some info on their plans.

 

I hope it comes sooner rather than later. Would agree that it should be one of the priorities.

 

On 4/15/2021 at 6:05 PM, Jason_Williams said:

...

We already have plans to re-vamp our clouds, sky-domes and lighting etc. at some point. I have no ETA, but it's on our list.

 

As some have demonstrated here in the mod section, our sky technology is quite powerful and complex already. It takes a serious amount of work and artistic talent to get the most out of it and keep performance high. But the market that is flight-simming is ever changing and we must try to adapt when possible to stay competitive.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by kendo

[danielprates]

7 hours ago, Motherbrain said:

 

I was pretty upset when Normandy was announced, since I was dead certain the PTO was going to be next.

 

It feels you disapointed yourself really, by the time Normandy was announced, it was pretty obvious PTO wasn't going to be the next thing. The devs were extremelly clear about this on countless ocasions.

[Diggun]

I still don't get the attraction of flying for 4 hours on a compass course over endless blue sea really... 

[RedKestrel]

22 minutes ago, Diggun said:

I still don't get the attraction of flying for 4 hours on a compass course over endless blue sea really... 

As much as I would like the scenarios, planes, new environments and naval engagements, what you mention here is a big concern really. If the maps are 100% historical and to scale then that's some looooong flights. I'm lucky if I get a 2 hour block for a whole week these days.

[DBFlyguy]

15 hours ago, Mainstay said:

Love the sim but I would like to know 2 things that could ease my mind. 
 

1 - Can we expect the sim to get a major graphic engine overhaul or a complete new one like a couple of other civil and combat sims out there. I really feel it’s starting to show it’s age compared to others out there. 
 

2 - Will the pacific scene be a thing? I really want to fly Zero, Corsair and Dauntless again like the olden days. 
 

Thank you for all the hard work so far and keep it up ?? 

I don't think we'll be seeing an graphics upgrade, what you see is what you get. I also don't think any Pacific theater will ever be a thing for this sim as they stand now....  If you want the Pacific, DCS is thankfully making active steps in that direction and there is also still the classic IL2 1946 which besides dated graphics and no VR, still holds up really well IMHO:

 

 

 

Don't put you eggs all in one basket when it comes to sims ?

[Diggun]

8 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

Don't put you eggs all in one basket when it comes to sims ?

This. Got a very beady eye on Task Force Admiral... 

[PatrickAWlson]

You will not hear anything about either of these until a commitment has been made within the development team.  They may be doing proof of concept work on a new engine or a PTO module (we know they went down that road a couple of years ago) as we speak but they are not going to say anything publicly until they are sure it can be delivered.

 

Something that I preach at my real job: The first question should always be what.  You never start with how.  A new engine is really not a "what".  it is a "how" - a potential tool in the tool box to accomplish something. Porting to a new engine is a huge amount of work.  By itself it quite possibly accomplishes nothing.  Before you undertake such an expensive job you had better know why you are doing it and what results you expect to get from it.

 

So what is it that you want from the new engine?  I want improved performance more than anything.  I really don't care if they accomplish that by using a new engine or tweaking the one that they have.

 

[JG27_Steini]

1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

As much as I would like the scenarios, planes, new environments and naval engagements, what you mention here is a big concern really. If the maps are 100% historical and to scale then that's some looooong flights. I'm lucky if I get a 2 hour block for a whole week these days.

 

Dont forget that there are no other mission type other then ship hunting for bombers and escort for fighters. Naval air warfare has no real variety. Land based air warfare is the better choice for PTO and we will got more than just the Zeke and Wildcat.

[Ribbon]

38 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

I don't think we'll be seeing an graphics upgrade, what you see is what you get. I also don't think any Pacific theater will ever be a thing for this sim as they stand now....  If you want the Pacific, DCS is thankfully making active steps in that direction and there is also still the classic IL2 1946 which besides dated graphics and no VR, still holds up really well IMHO:

 

 

 

It is amazing how much gameplay depth that rescue mission has, it was pure joy to watch it.....makes me want to install 1946 again!

I have never played modded 1946 but that sea tech looks soo good and realistic, on msfs2020 lvl.... watching it on my phone.

Would be cool to have remastered il2:1946 with better plane gfx, clouds and land textures also with VR support.

 

DCS has PTO forum section opened following Pacific ww2 map by end of the year, it would be cool if they release PTO module like Flaming cliffs or planes without clickpits but with proffesional FM for a start and slowly fill the planeset with clickpits over the years.

3 minutes ago, JG27_Steini said:

 

Dont forget that there are no other mission type other then ship hunting for bombers and escort for fighters. Naval air warfare has no real variety. Land based air warfare is the better choice for PTO and we will got more than just the Zeke and Wildcat.

We already have ground staffing and df so ship and carrier sinking with bombs and torpedos would be much welcomed gameplay variety rather than another theatre with inland ground pounding in fighter bombers as we have now and in the last 7 years.

[BlitzPig_EL]

As I have said many times, there is more to the Pacific Theater than carriers and their one or two day engagements.  There were EPIC air campaigns in New Guinea and the CBI Theater.  Those two areas alone have endless options for excellent game play.  Open your minds to what is possible.

[Zeev]

18 hours ago, Arthur-A said:

You're more likely to get other stuff, like drivable trucks or new tanks. Which is of course more essential for a flight simulator...

Next thing on menu "Run as soldier\pilot" outside of plane, and ride Bicycles. (There is a game like this, and I am not sarcastic here, would love to have this option).

[kendo]

3 hours ago, DBFlyguy said:

I don't think we'll be seeing an graphics upgrade, what you see is what you get. I also don't think any Pacific theater will ever be a thing for this sim as they stand now....  If you want the Pacific, DCS is thankfully making active steps in that direction and there is also still the classic IL2 1946 which besides dated graphics and no VR, still holds up really well IMHO:

 

 

I already posted Jason's comments above that they are going to do a graphics upgrade.

 

[Motherbrain]

4 hours ago, danielprates said:

 

It feels you disapointed yourself really, by the time Normandy was announced, it was pretty obvious PTO wasn't going to be the next thing. The devs were extremelly clear about this on countless ocasions.

 

Well like I said, I'm not going to be that foolish again. 

[40plus]

My interest in aviation sim'ing ends with the deviation from the european/african campaigns of WW1 through WW2. PTO, Korea etc just don't do it for me in any way. I'd love expanded naval air operations but in the Med' or Channel theaters, not the Pacific. That said I would buy a PTO module on day one just to support the devs and to back up the crew who have been waiting for oh so long for it to happen..... dedicated if a bit whiny, that bunch.

 

A new graphics engine would be welcome but what we have is already top shelf so asking for more seems a bit ungrateful. I do appreciate the incremental improvements that we have received thus far. I can't see them cutting this branch any time soon and porting into a new engine. They've just barely started porting older WW1 content into this engine after all.

 

 

[Jason_Williams]

Guys,

 

Graphics engine changes are major work. We have always done these kinds of things incrementally. Any radical changes would come with a completely new product branch which I have stated many times. Right now I am focused on finishing BON and FC2 which adds a ton of content to Great Battles series. Over time that will probably include some small improvements to visuals and continue our work to improve existing content. We may also make new clouds if the tech becomes feasible and the performance is good.

 

When it becomes feasible to make a Pacific themed product we will. My desire is still there, but it will have to be pretty awesome and a step above our current tech and content to do us any good. You guys are a hard group to please. Covid also didn't do us any favors.

 

Jason