Non TC owners: How do you deal with those Tigers?

[Monostripezebra]

I am not much of a tank guy.. and thus don´t own TC

 

But as enjoy flying planes against player tanks but on the servers I occasionally end up tanking in the PzIII and T-34 STZ, and while I do (mostly) OKish in the Panzer III, I am having a real hard time in T-34 versus the Tiger tanks..

 

I know there is the weak point of the lower side armor, between the wheels and the upper side armor but are there any other points? Or any ammo pointers? I shot cupolas, loading hatches, vision ports.. but no dice, only the side shot works reliably..but that is sometimes hard to get and things can get really chewy. But I still saw an AAA-Truck get a Tiger.. how do you do that?

 

What are weakpoints to shoot at? What ammo at what distances?

 

 

Example:

 

 

 

[SCG_judgedeath3]

USe the t-34s advantages with periscope, hull down positions and terrain, T-34s are hard to see in terrain like forests, and use the speed to get into positions where you get to the weakpoints of the tiger tank.
Like in reality: frontally you wont be able to do anything to a tiger tank, get to the side of the tiger tank, and from 90 degree, dont want the hull of the tiger to have a angle because that could bounce a shot. Close to medium range 1-2 shots will kill it. Also the same from the back.
Tigers armour is only 80mm on the side and rear.

Use the t-34 correctly and its not that hard to take out a tiger tank if its attacking and its not too open terrain.

[Monostripezebra]

1 hour ago, SCG_judgedeath3 said:

  Close to medium range 1-2 shots will kill it. Also the same from the back.
Tigers armour is only 80mm on the side and rear.

 

Like the vid above? I was literally 100m behind and shot into the rear 80mm plate at angles 0 with a ton of shots... and none went through.. That was just the stock APHE, as I did not bother changing it.. do mean the ACBR shells?  The stock AP shells wont do 80mm like 99% of the time..

 

Not even the cupola..shot in the vision slot impressed the comander..

 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Monostripezebra

[SCG_judgedeath3]

No not like that, cupola is rounded and can bounce shots, hit the flat side of the hull, second: the turrets back although its not as guaranted kill. From that range I havent had any issues taking out tigers with any of the ammo types mentioned, occassionaly the shell malfunctioned but the second shot would then do it.

[moustache]

attention, sometimes network problems, (whether from the client or the server) lead to errors / disappearance of shells ... to train, the best is to do it solo ... but the multi reserves this kind of surprise ... (I saw 34 t resist 75 mm long at 500m ...)

[Monostripezebra]

1 hour ago, SCG_judgedeath3 said:

No not like that, cupola is rounded and can bounce shots,

 

dunno.. I am not a tank guy, but the impact does not look very bouncy to me

[SCG_judgedeath3]

Slightly to the right and not 100% straight on and depending on if the shell was thumbling and from angle it can happen, although the DVD model isnt perfect, and damage model. But aim where I said and you wont have issues.

[Monostripezebra]

1 hour ago, moustache said:

attention, sometimes network problems, (whether from the client or the server) lead to errors / disappearance of shells ... to train, the best is to do it solo ... but the multi reserves this kind of surprise ... (I saw 34 t resist 75 mm long at 500m ...)

 

I don´t think netcode issues like disapearing shells would lead to altered 3D models with impacts as recorded in the track?

[moustache]

not necessarily, it can simply be a shell that shifts slightly, ricocheting instead of penetrating ...

[SCG_judgedeath3]

^correct

[Monostripezebra]

Hmm.. I don´t know. I guess I´ll stay with the tried and proven air support method of dealing with them..

 

 

[LachenKrieg]

 

17 hours ago, Monostripezebra said:

 

dunno.. I am not a tank guy, but the impact does not look very bouncy to me

You don't have to be a tank guy to know the commander shouldn't still be standing there. If the DVD thing is aligned with the DM at all, it is a pretty clean penetration. Your videos demonstrate how messed up the damage model is at the moment. Pelting the back side of the tank like in the first video would have caused enough damage to at least stop it from driving away.

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by LachenKrieg

[ShampooX]

I think all these games - well at least TC and WT - would like us to believe there's alot of actual ballistic and armor related code built into the OS of these games.  I think the proof is, in fact,  overwhelmingly against this.  I stopped worrying about it.  It did alot to improve my outlook on gaming.  The other day I just saw a PZ3 one-shot a T34 from about 2k.   I have a thread here somewhere on an encounter I had in my Tiger with a Sherman that absorbed at least 6-8 hits and drove away....while firing back. 

 

I don't think the developers know what to fix if they even knew how to fix it....if it even exists in the first place.   The proof of this statement is in the game, and not just this game either.

 

Just shoot until it dies.....and be happy.

 

PS I totally agree with the comment above about the T34 color advantage.  There needs to be better camo for the Panzer Korps.  Not sure why a couple of the darker user-made historical skins can't be coded into the Official Skins.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Shampoo_Actual
added info

[super-truite]

In game (not meant to be a real life strategy), I try to shoot first the commander at this distance because from the rear I have also difficulties to pen the Tiger and my goal is always to get to the side. Without the commander, I know that the Tiger will be less efficient. Most of the time, when seeing the tracers, the guy has the bad reflex of pivoting the tank and then I have an opportunity to shoot. If it does not work, I then try to destroy the tracks. I try to hide between shots if possible. When the Tiger is stuck I try to reach the side but ideally you need a diversion for that. 

As for the Gaz, it cannot really do any critical damage to the Tiger. Maybe what you had in mind was when I shot at one and you just strafed me after and the guy then left his tank? In that case, I killed the commander with the Gaz and he then had a video bug and had to leave the tank, but the tank was still operational.

[LachenKrieg]

7 hours ago, Shampoo_Actual said:

I think all these games - well at least TC and WT - would like us to believe there's alot of actual ballistic and armor related code built into the OS of these games.  I think the proof is, in fact,  overwhelmingly against this.  I stopped worrying about it.  It did alot to improve my outlook on gaming.  The other day I just saw a PZ3 one-shot a T34 from about 2k.   I have a thread here somewhere on an encounter I had in my Tiger with a Sherman that absorbed at least 6-8 hits and drove away....while firing back. 

 

I don't think the developers know what to fix if they even knew how to fix it....if it even exists in the first place.   The proof of this statement is in the game, and not just this game either.

 

Just shoot until it dies.....and be happy.

 

PS I totally agree with the comment above about the T34 color advantage.  There needs to be better camo for the Panzer Korps.  Not sure why a couple of the darker user-made historical skins can't be coded into the Official Skins.

I totally agree, the more experience I got with TC, the more I realized just how far from real it is in the ballistics/armor area. I wouldn't exactly compare it to games like WoT/WT, because those games are designed to generate the balance they do as a way to generate revenue. In fact, the WoT bizz model would probably crash if the game wasn't rigged the way that it is.

 

But as a SIM, I think TC is in a better position to make it more real and still survive given the type of crowd it attracts. If you want real ballistics/armor performance, check out GHPC. Unfortunately it is only post 1970's, so you wont see WWII tanks.

 

There was a camo contest a while back with a bunch of really good submissions, but nothing ever materialized on the Dev side. We don't have a single tank with zimmerit coating/camo What's up with that?

[Monostripezebra]

17 hours ago, super-truite said:

In game (not meant to be a real life strategy), I try to shoot first the commander at this distance because from the rear I have also difficulties to pen the Tiger and my goal is always to get to the side. Without the commander, I know that the Tiger will be less efficient. Most of the time, when seeing the tracers, the guy has the bad reflex of pivoting the tank and then I have an opportunity to shoot. If it does not work, I then try to destroy the tracks. I try to hide between shots if possible. When the Tiger is stuck I try to reach the side but ideally you need a diversion for that. 
 

 

That sounds good.. albeit i feel hiding between shots may not be such a good tactic for the stock T-34 with a relative fast reload, because of losing contact in a situation where he knows that you are there also gives the tiger options to hide and re-surprise you.. how do you get the comander? With HE? As in the vid above, my APHE has not really an effect on the outside comander it seems.

 

overall, air support, especially as a divebomber is working really good on tigers.

 

17 hours ago, super-truite said:

As for the Gaz, it cannot really do any critical damage to the Tiger. Maybe what you had in mind was when I shot at one and you just strafed me after and the guy then left his tank? In that case, I killed the commander with the Gaz and he then had a video bug and had to leave the tank, but the tank was still operational.

Ah, this incident

 

I only saw the kill message in chat and I think there was also something in chat? I am not sure what damage the Tiger really sustained appart from a  dead commander, but I remember I was under the impression that it was out of action by the sideshots..

 

In retrospect it is interesting to note, that you were probably using HE shells.. and they seem to be very efficent in killing the hatched commander, as compared to AP. I haven´t tried sidearms like the pistols yet.. but it seems the weird "comander feels nothing" bug may be related to the MG and AP shells. Ranged explosive works.

 

I don´t really think the damage model is bad.. but maybe it has some glitches like the tank comander beeing a bit steely and unimpressed by AP. I have not tested how other tanks comanders react.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Monostripezebra

[super-truite]

I use the mg to kill the commander. More often than not it has the effect of making the player pivot the tank because he sees from the tracers that you are behind and then you have an opportunity for a side shot. I am not even sure I die that much from Tigers in t34 or sherman unless when doing silly things like trying to ram them . Most of the map I do on my server are made to allow flanking so when I die to a static Tiger, I just sneak behind it. Even those that do not look like it like Prelestonye are in fact quite easy to win on the Allied side (the terrain is slightly hilly and you can go from one dip to another). 
I love the Tiger but I do not use it much because there is only one by tank spawn on my server and it needs patience to keep it and it is difficult to play the objectives while doing so. 
On the allied side we put 5 or 6 SU 152. The 152 is a difficult tank, but the veterans on the server are one-shoting every Tiger/Panther if they see it first. 
It is of course not perfect and sometimes a Tiger gets in a perfect spot, with cover from PzIV/Panthers on the sides and then it's game over unless there are good pilots on the enemy team. But this situation is not so common.
But I like this kind of asymmetric warfare and I would not like my server to be balanced by limiting the types of tanks available. I'd rather limit the number of heavy tanks but still allow them.
The main issue for balance are players that only want to play german. I was guilty of this at the beginning, but I had to switch to the allied side because otherwise it would get too imbalanced... The last two months has seen an arrival of new players and the axis is mainly winning because of team balance. It would be nice that people try the other side once in a while so that I could play with german tanks sometimes . At some point I will need to force the balance, but it is a difficult decision because it usually lead to players leaving the server (those that do not want to play the other side and those that cannot play with their friends on the same team because of auto balance ...).

PS: regarding the Gaz on Tiger action, LUZITANO left the Tiger because of a camera bug and the the kill was attributed to me, but the tank could have keep going.

[I.JG3_CDRSEABEE]

On 5/9/2021 at 12:46 PM, Shampoo_Actual said:

There needs to be better camo for the Panzer Korps.  Not sure why a couple of the darker user-made historical skins can't be coded into the Official Skins.

I never use the Official skins for panzers. They glow like crazy in the woods!!! There are some good camo ones though and a couple of green ones.

[BlitzPig_EL]

But...  The way skins work in the sim is that the only way that someone can see a non "official" skin is if they have it on their hard drive as well.  Skins are not transmitted over the net like in old IL2.  So if you have a great camo skin, and your opponent does not have it on his drive, guess what?  Yup, to him you are wearing the bright "desert" paint scheme.

 

Just sayin'.

[JG27_Steini]

2 hours ago, CDRSEABEE said:

I never use the Official skins for panzers. They glow like crazy in the woods!!! There are some good camo ones though and a couple of green ones.

 

Good for you, but online your opponent will see your standard cammo.

[RIVALDO]

2 hours ago, CDRSEABEE said:

I never use the Official skins for panzers. They glow like crazy in the woods!!! There are some good camo ones though and a couple of green ones.

Skins 101...

In order for your friend or an enemy to see your custom skin online, you must share it with them.And they have to download them and place them in the correct folder in game...

[Guest deleted@188321]

sssshhhhh nobody tell him

[Monostripezebra]

I find it interesting, that exposed comanders are usually one way to destinguish between AI vehicles (who drive with comander hatched mostly) and playes and that indeed aircraft machine guns work well...

 

 

[Monostripezebra]

the best is off course, if tigers are cooperative and show all sides in the tiger dance, so that all enemies can get a fair sideshot, very friendly tactic!

 

 

[I.JG3_CDRSEABEE]

On 5/13/2021 at 1:27 PM, RIVALDO said:

Skins 101...

In order for your friend or an enemy to see your custom skin online, you must share it with them.And they have to download them and place them in the correct folder in game...

HA!! I did not know that. But I have had people say something about it online. So it works sometimes.

[ElbellaHood]

About the camo maybe we can blame the Germans, after all they did use yellow basic paint after 1943 with mostly green stripes as standard camo during Zitadelle...

 

Of course there were cases of tri-colour camo that summer. I'm also wondering why not devs make them official, but anyway it is their decision.