Newcomer seeking tactics advice

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm taking a break from my usual COD/DWT activities and have been dabbling in WW1 combat via FC.  Am really enjoying the game thus far (~ 2 weeks in) and have settled on the Bristol fighter as the aircraft I'm trying to get good at. I flew the 110 for years on COD and more recently the Beaufighter and enjoy the challenge of flying 'heavy' fighters in single seater shark infested waters.

 

I'm having some problems adjusting to WW1 combat and recently have been involved in 2 head-on collisions on Flugpark that may have been largely my fault - maybe?. Apologies to the 2 individuals involved if they were largely my fault.

 

In the 110 / Beaufighter forcing head on passes to bring my guns to bear on the enemy a/c was one way to compensate for the aircraft's lack of manoeuvrability especially once i had gone defensive after missing during my initial attack.  For example, after a missed attack if i was being chased by an enemy single seater who had a speed advantage i would often turn back into the attacker seeking to get my guns on during the resulting head on pass, noting i usually had a firepower and gun range advantage. This sometimes resulted in head-on collisions but usually one or both of us were able to take a shot and then manoeuvre to avoid the collision.

 

At the moment I'm seeing which of my 110 'bag of tricks' tactics works over the trenches realising that some / many of these may not be suitable for the slower pace of WW1 fighting. I am enjoying this different type of flying / fighting - watching/hearing my gunner in action in pretty cool to see even if he's not always hitting stuff.

 

So I have been defensively turning back into attacking fighters in FC recently but i seem to having comparatively more head-on collisions in FC than i did in COD.  So I'm wondering why and wondering how to adjust my plan of attack to reduce these head-ons from occurring?

 

I know from 7+ years online flying in COD that its rare that people deliberately ram - and I'm certainly not trying to do that - and sometimes it just happens especially if both players are aggressively manoeuvring to achieve guns-on. But its not a very satisfying way to end a duel for both parties involved. 

 

In FC I am finding the reduced visibility caused by the 2 wings sometimes means i lose my opponent behind my top wing when turning onto them and this may be part of my problem?  And maybe head-on passes dont work as well in WW1 as they did in WW2 in some situations.

 

So I'd be keen for any tips on how to remain aggressive in a heavy fighter against a more nimbler single engine opponent?

 

Are head on passes as a defensive option a legitimate manoeuvre or are they less of a thing in WW1 / FC because of the different aircraft performances (speeds, manoeuvrability, firepower) compared to WW2/COD?  Are they frowned on from a server etiquette perspective given the potential high rate of collisions?

 

Any advice would be appreciated as i try and figure out how to best fly/fight in the Bristol.

 

Thanks

 

ATAG_Ezzie  

[US41_Winslow]

I hardly ever fly the Bristol but I imagine a good tactic in it would be to get a thousand foot altitude advantage on the E.A. and dive on them.  Since I don’t fly it much, I’m not sure if at this point you want to keep diving and extend away or zoom above them. If you are flying the stock Bristol with no weapon mods, I would’t recomend going head on as the E.A. significantly outgun you.  Most of this advice is not much good if you are looking to just get into a dogfight and have a reasonable chance of winning, like I was when I first started flying multiplayer, and is better for someone looking to not die much.  Again, I hardly ever fly the Bristol so others are much more qualified than me to give advice but good advice for all of these airplanes is to start with a good height and position advantage before attacking.  I hope this helps.

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Thanks Miners - appreciate your thoughts.

 

I'm not looking to die much and i enjoy the challenge of staying alive but at the same time engaging the enemy and scoring a kill, not necessarily requiring a dogfight to do so - this is the challenge that hooked me to online flying. 1 pass / 1 kill diving from a higher altitude and shooting them in the back before they knew i was there is how i tried to fly the 110 online and this is how i'm trying to fly the Bristol.

 

Thus far on Flugpark I have usually had the alt advantage when starting my attacks but I'm not skilled enough to do the 1 kill / 1 pass yet in the Bristol. I'm extending away like you suggested but then have turned back into the chasing attackers assuming they have a speed advantage and will eventually get me within their guns' range. 

 

Perhaps I'm underestimating the Bristol's relative speed / climb performance re the attacking fighters and if i just held my nerve and kept extending / climbing i would slowly draw away from them and not have to do the defensive head-on approach to get them off my tail?

 

Good point re the Bristol being outgunned - makes the head-on approach less profitable it seems from a firepower advantage perspective.

 

Thanks again - you have given me some things to consider

 

Ezzie

[=IRFC=Gascan]

The Bristol, especially with the Falcon 3 engine, is incredibly fast. It can also dive pretty fast with the engine at almost full power. It's a very tough bird, with the wings and engine getting shredded but it keeps on truckin'. It is a bit vulnerable to losing control surfaces, but there are two elevators (if one gets jammed, the other may still work fine), and it is one of two planes with adjustable stabilizer (which for some unknown reason cannot be disabled/jammed). You can pick up an extra 1 or 2 MPH in level flight if you set the stabilizer full forward. I almost always take the twin tail gun, the extra firepower is well worth the weight penalty. Sometimes I'll take the twin over-wing guns, which significantly upgrades your forward firepower at the cost of speed and bleeding energy. The single forward gun can be a bit anemic if you aren't precisely putting bullets into the enemy engine or pilot, but the extra two lewis guns make a difference in shredding planes. The game does model drag when the gunner stands up, as well as for the overwing guns if you point them up.

In a fight, I am usually flying with at least 1 or 2 other Bristols on comms with me. Sometimes we're going bombing, other times we're hunting. Accordingly, most of my methods are for use in groups of planes rather than 1v1. If I see the enemy coming, I'll go for an initial head-to-head or bounce if possible. After that, I swap over to turn-fighting and focus on clearing friendly 6. Sometimes I ask him to drag the enemy a particular way to set up a good long burst.  Unlike most Entente planes, the Bristol can usually survive dragging an enemy for a bit. As long as they don't kill the pilot or disable your controls, you're almost as tough as Supeman. They ping your engine, or shred your wings? Ignore it, keep full power and keep pulling hard G's, the Bristol will take it until the fight is done, and maybe even the next fight too. The single machine gun just doesn't really cut it for a quick burst when someone zips in front of you (take the shot, you've got LOTS of forward ammo, just don't get your hopes up for a killing blow), so you really gotta settle in on their 6 and hammer away. Often, if there is a big fight, I just do a big Lufberry circle, and eventually someone will settle in my sights for me to shoot. If the fight is going poorly, find the opportune moment and dive away. Extend out and away, then head home or come back for another try. If you have the overwing guns, they make it harder to escape, though it is still possible. The Central planes will be able to stay in range for a bit, but you can most likely survive whatever lead they throw at you. Unless it's a D7F, you can escape (and sometimes even then).

If you can get a human gunner, it will make a big difference (although having a second Bristol will also make a big difference). He can spot for you, and is usually a better shot than the AI. Try to use short bursts at range, and save most of the magazine for when they get close enough. The other nice thing about a human gunner is the AI gunner doesn't like it when you pull G's. Anything above 1.3G or so and the AI gunner just seems to give up and stops shooting. He'll point the gun at the target, and they'll be hammering away at you, all the AI needs to do is shoot and the enemy would be annihilated, but the gunner just won't pull the trigger.

[US41_Winslow]

I’ve heard that not much can catch a Bristol if you dive steeply at first and then go into a shallower dive, so that might work.  I only fly the Camel, which isn’t a great diver or good at altitude but I’ve been able to drag even Fokkers miles behind my lines starting at 10,000 or so.  They might break off if there are more British airplanes around, especially if you get lower where they will be at more of a disadvantage.  The effective range of the machine guns is just about 500 yards, so don’t turn back until they are under 600 yards.  Since you are trying to get them on your first pass, I’d recomend taking the overwing lewis guns to increase your firepower and take the twin gun turret to better deter people trying to get on your tail.  I’ve also done some practice diving on the A.I., which has helped my shooting a bit.  Ignore anything I say if it contradicts something Gascan or a more experienced Bristol pilot says.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Miners
Didn’t see Gascan’s reply

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Thanks Gascan/Miners - very useful suggestions which I'll check out and incorporate

 

Ive just landed after an online sortie and during the sortie extended away from a slightly higher enemy a/c who was on my 6 hunting me in the clouds.  Was able to prevent him from closing to gun range and eventually he gave up or lost me in the clouds. 

 

I was able to get the Bristol going reasonably fast it seems. Thanks for the tip re the stabilizer - i'll try that next time.

 

Gascan - in the 110 i used to man the rear gun and fly the aircraft at the same time.  Took some practice but became easy after a while and i was reasonably proficient shooting enemy a/c on my tail with my rear gun.  Is it possible to do likewise in the Bristol?

 

Thanks

 

Ezzie

 

 

[US103_Baer]

In training fights i've seen a Bristol with a great rear gunner and pilot beat anything 2 good pilots in D7/Pfalz could throw at it. So there's that.

 

But if you're by yourself i'd personally take the F3 with overwing guns and learn how to tilt them up when needed in a fight to shoot across a circle.

Ditch the head-on attacks, why even give an enemy a chance to hit you?

Start above and stay above, making slashing attacks with zooms and energy retention. Dive out if you lose the initiative. Bristol is a good BnZer.

[=LD=Brazo]

I recently became victim to a dastardly(!) tactic used by a Bristol fighter! 

He simply flew around me in a wide circle allowing the accuracy of the aI gunner to shred me slowly! 
 

Not a bad tactic actually given how accurate the ai gunner is! 

[Rail]

I think that the best (but not only) tactic is to fly the aircraft for the gunner. You will appreciate this tactic more if you actually fly as a gunner. The EA detest approaching a 2-seater from anything like the 'six' position and you should maneuver accordingly. The rear-gunner will be at his most accurate and dangerous if you can present him with the perfect non-deflection shot. Allowing the gunner to do what he is paid to do is an excellent tactic.

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Rail
typo

[Zooropa_Fly]

I've spent a fair bit of time in 110's and usually fly Bristols in my rare forays into FC.

I'll only have a fraction of your 110 skills, and dogfighting isn't something I look to do in it. Sneak in, pound some ground, and get back to base. If I get bounced all I can do is try and make it back to friendly territory. It can be lots fun and I've had some great escapes.. but as often as not I get wasted. My gunners are usually not much kop, and I rarely even get a glimpse of the enemy.

 

The Bristol on the other hand, is currently The Entente's 2nd best dogfighter in my opinion. It can turn with most of the German planes, and rolls quite well.

My tactic is usually to get into a scissors, keeping the nose up and gaining a little altitude. If a Pfalz or Alby play along - the idea is that he pops up alomst motionless in front of the gunner for a couple of seconds. Even that useless twit usually gets a hit in from there !

This seems to work better in RoF than FC so far. Could be that thicker atmosphere thing..

I usually take the single rear gun option to be as nimble as possible, and never use any over-heads.

 

So don't be afraid to get stuck in there, Germans tend to 'twitch' a little when faced with a Bristol.

I'd do little airquake practice - chuck the thing around as if you're in a single seater, see how you get on.

 

S!

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Thanks everyone - some great tips and advice and thanks for sharing.

 

Seems the Bristol is a more capable aircraft than i thought.  Just have to put all of the tips into practice now and see how i go..

 

Thanks

 

Ezzie

[J2_Jakob]

Forget the Bf110 when comparing the two. You can fly Brisfit as a pure fighter with some back-seat reassurance, just as ZF says... I recall not being quite able to shake a Brisfit off my six in Albatros.

[76SQN-FatherTed]

6 minutes ago, J2_Jakob said:

Forget the Bf110 when comparing the two. You can fly Brisfit as a pure fighter with some back-seat reassurance, just as ZF says... I recall not being quite able to shake a Brisfit off my six in Albatros.

Yeah, just so.  It was called the Bristol Fighter, after all.  It's "relegated" to bombing and recon in game, because it's the only two-seater Entente has.  Once we get the FC2 aircraft, I'm hoping the Brisfit will be freed up to fly as a scout.

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Thanks Jakob and FatherTed - will adjust my approach accordingly.

 

A quick question re my gunner - earlier i was in an online duel and after some manoeuvring my opponent got a good shot in and damaged my aircraft.  Time to bug out so I dove for a nearby cloud.  When i next looked around to check my six i noticed my gunner was no longer in the aircraft.  The guns were still there along with an empty seat.

 

So did he jump given my damage or did he fall out at some stage during the turning?

 

I was able to make it back to my side of NML and do a crash landing so my damage wasnt catastrophic.  So I'm wondering if he fell out?  If so how can i avoid him doing that?

 

Ezzie

[Ghost666]

You didn't look deep enough in his pit. Sounds like he was killed, poor guy RIP. After a few seconds a dead pilot or gunner will disappear, saving computer resources.

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Ohhhh - thanks Ghost666.

 

RIP gunner..

[US41_Low]

Poor fella took a bullet for ya then you just dumped him out of the aircraft. Rude!

[J2_Drookasi]

All advise provided above is great Ezzie, this is how you should be flying the Brisfit. My two pennies is that when you are fighting against AI opponents (in the Flugpark server there is a number of those) you need to be extra careful with head-on attacks, since the AIs tend to be very reckless, resulting in head-on collisions. A human player is, usually, more careful.

[ATAG_Ezzie]

On 5/4/2021 at 2:17 AM, US_Low said:

Poor fella took a bullet for ya then you just dumped him out of the aircraft. Rude!

 

LOL.  He isnt the first gunner to be killed when flying with me and wont be the last....

2 hours ago, J2_Drookasi said:

All advise provided above is great Ezzie, this is how you should be flying the Brisfit. My two pennies is that when you are fighting against AI opponents (in the Flugpark server there is a number of those) you need to be extra careful with head-on attacks, since the AIs tend to be very reckless, resulting in head-on collisions. A human player is, usually, more careful.

Thanks Drookasi - appreciate your thoughts.

 

Also thanks for writing your guide.  Reading it motivated me to try out FC as you described a way of flying /thinking about online flying that really resonates with me.

 

I wrote the following after around 18 months of flying the 110 online and while it in no way compares to your great guide there are some similarities in approach as outlined in your guide.

 

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17926&highlight=approach

 

I'm having fun learning how to fly / fight WW1 style while still using the same type of approach - very early days and at this stage I'm just trying to not be an easy kill.  Not always successful though so still have lots to learn which is a fun / rewarding challenge.

 

Thanks

 

Ezzie

[J2_Drookasi]

33 minutes ago, ATAG_Ezzie said:

Also thanks for writing your guide.  Reading it motivated me to try out FC as you described a way of flying /thinking about online flying that really resonates with me.

Really happy you found it interesting! By reading your notes I see that we are indeed likely minded; situational awareness, energy management and choosing your fights. You would fit well in Jasta 2!

[J2_Trupobaw]

The WW1 BF-110 is the Breguet (sort of - she rolls bad but boy she can sustain a turn) and she's coming ? . Bristol is more a fighter that happens to have a gunner (and fragile wings; going head on with more durable German planes is not playing to your strengths with your superior climb, speed and good maneuvrability). 
 

On 5/2/2021 at 1:24 AM, Ghost666 said:

You didn't look deep enough in his pit. Sounds like he was killed, poor guy RIP. After a few seconds a dead pilot or gunner will disappear, saving computer resources.

He does? I was sure they remain as dead bodies forever in FC? (They are dead weight, dead or alive; if they despawn after all it's great news! )

[Angry_Kitten]

if we can only get the Dev team to swap the gunner body for the lady soviet pilot... at least wed have nicer scenery

[BMA_Hellbender]

On 5/6/2021 at 5:13 PM, J2_Trupobaw said:

The WW1 BF-110 is the Breguet (sort of - she rolls bad but boy she can sustain a turn) and she's coming ? .

 

If you know how to effectively use its massive rudder to roll and snaproll, there's nothing that beats the Breguet. It's by far the most maneuverable French plane, second only to the Sopwith Camel. I actually recommend a twist stick rather than pedals to decrease the travel required to kick full rudder back and forth.

 

If her DM holds a candle to how it was in RoF (a flying tank)... oh boy. Oh boy.

 

Just embrace the madness.