Discussion of Planned Graphics Update

[Enceladus828]

On 5/29/2021 at 4:23 AM, Thundercracker said:

Tells us nothing about a potential announcement

It's May 31st now and still no info about the next installment of this game.

 

We need a new date.

[Thundercracker]

7 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

It's May 31st now and still no info about the next installment of this game.

 

We need a new date.

To be fair to buzzsaw he only mentioned may, not which year ?

[Buffo002]

TF is a small team, so the work they take is not that big company like others where they have a lot of employees. When it's done, it will be. 

I'm sure it's always annoying to point out that, so be patient and wait until it's done.

[Dagwoodyt]

21 minutes ago, Buffo002 said:

TF is a small team, so the work they take is not that big company like others where they have a lot of employees. When it's done, it will be. 

I'm sure it's always annoying to point out that, so be patient and wait until it's done.

This line of reasoning no longer applies once a product goes on sale. Eating your cake and having it too just won't work in a commercial enterprise. In the rather complex  setting of Blitz, communication style becomes key.

[Buffo002]

As far as I know, many other and much larger projects did not meet the deadline many times. I just understand that during the work there may be problems and therefore they delay the deadline, so when it is, it will be. I understand them and if I know nothing they did not promise that it will be 100% in that term, but only a preliminary term, but every normal person will understand when something develops new, so it may not be in the given term, but also later.  And I think they mentioned that one or more of the team had a covid-19, so that's why they could stay, but it doesn't matter, when it will be.

 

[Dagwoodyt]

28 minutes ago, Buffo002 said:

As far as I know, many other and much larger projects did not meet the deadline many times. I just understand that during the work there may be problems and therefore they delay the deadline, so when it is, it will be. I understand them and if I know nothing they did not promise that it will be 100% in that term, but only a preliminary term, but every normal person will understand when something develops new, so it may not be in the given term, but also later.  And I think they mentioned that one or more of the team had a covid-19, so that's why they could stay, but it doesn't matter, when it will be.

 

The issue you might seem to be avoiding is that the customer asking "what happened guys?" didn't set the so-called "deadline"  ?

Edited May 31, 2021 by Dagwoodyt

[Buffo002]

I'm a customer like you and the others, but I just said my opinion and it's useless to discuss it and unnecessarily upset why it hasn't worked out yet, it just dragged on for various reasons related to new work on the project (unexpected problems, time is running out , illness in the team, etc. there are many possibilities) ... as everywhere.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

It's funny how some simulation enthusiasts take the TFS announcements as solemn oaths. A delay after an announced deadline... this is nothing in the video game industry,  from experience we already know this is nothing, a common phenomenon, nothing else. On top of that, this company TFS is made up of developers who have a parallel professional life, so... well, simply eat your pop corn and read the whiners' comments, in my humble opinion there's nothing else to do.

 

 

[I/JG54_chuishan]

Anyway, it's OK for me to wait.

 

By the way, ED just postponed the release of the Mi-24P Hind Early Access, also the release of the Mosquito. Both of the projects have no definite release date now and ED provides no specific reason.

 

So I can fully understand TF's delay if necessary.

[jdu]

17 hours ago, Buffo002 said:

TF is a small team, so the work they take is not that big company like others where they have a lot of employees. When it's done, it will be. 

I'm sure it's always annoying to point out that, so be patient and wait until it's done.

 

I agree.

I hallucinate to read messages from "customers" who too often forget that the TF is made up of volunteers (synonym: who are not paid).
I hope that these customers are not involved, directly or indirectly, in IT development projects.

[Guest deleted@7076]

-Deleted-

Edited September 12, 2022 by Varrattu

[Avimimus]

4 hours ago, jdu said:

I agree.

I hallucinate to read messages from "customers" who too often forget that the TF is made up of volunteers (synonym: who are not paid).
I hope that these customers are not involved, directly or indirectly, in IT development projects.

 

I think they do get paid now. But most of the initial work to make this possible was entirely volunteer. However, I'm given to understand that much of the team isn't full time.

[Dagwoodyt]

For better or worse there are readily observable differences in communication styles between development teams. Award A+ if you think it appropriate. Whether the developer-set timeline for announcement new DLC is kept or not is not important to me. What is puzzling though is why it would be inappropriate, in the slightest, for a customer to ask for an updated timeline. Most important to me is that all the announced graphics updates get implemented in 2021 to support DLC I already have  ?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Announced deadlines should be understood as referendums: advisory but not binding. As an example, Jason Williams is 777's boss and I'm his client... not his boss. So, why should I be overdemanding with Jason only because it appears that a "deadline" hasn't been "respected". The trend amongst the simers' community is that an announced deadline binds the one who announced it... which in the game industry is a ridiculous expectation. And yes, we know that some companies do more communication than others... and so? When I started playing flight sims that was in 1992 and, at the time, the bloody internet wasn't spoiling the atmosphere. Do not get me wrong, internet is one of the greatest inventions ever, but it affects people in so many negative ways...

 

 

[Thundercracker]

7 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Announced deadlines should be understood as referendums: advisory but not binding. 

You don't run British rail by chance kintaro? 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Just now, Thundercracker said:

You don't run British rail by chance kintaro? 

 

 

This is exactly what I mean: video games and PC flight sims... are not trains.

 

 

[Thundercracker]

8 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

This is exactly what I mean: video games and PC flight sims... are not trains.

 

 

It was meant light heartedly, but to be fair the only person who gave a time frame was a member of the team who had already admitted to missing the previous internal deadline, I don't think many where expecting to see anything anytime soon. Even so the "whiners" in this thread have as much a right to express disappointed at a lack of an announcement as the local defence force do to demand patience and have faith.

 

Many of those who express disappointment just want to see this SIM thrive, we are all aware of the unique working conditions of the team and the usual times we live in but a screenshot here or there goes a long way to keep a community interested in the development.

 

I personally don't feel I'm owed anything from the team, I imagine most don't either but it's good marketing to bring in new players. 

 

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Thundercracker, in my opinion TFS doesn't communicate as much as 1C Game Studios does, maybe because there are serious differences between their respective game codes. Rise of Flight and its Great Battles offspring, this is a stable code, which allows the devs to plan and announce deadlines much more easier than the Cliffs of Dover code allows. Maybe TFS cannot take too many risks when announcing deadlines, maybe they have to deal with a too random way of working. I may be wrong, I don't know, all of this is very theoretical to me.

 

 

[Thundercracker]

To be fair, buzzsaw has said in the past media cannot be released without the permission of 1c. It maybe safe to assume they currently don't have it.

 

And your more than likely right, its probably a ballache managing people working part-time all over the world, It's much easier for the box development team due to it being under one roof. That's got to slow things down a lot, but a little bit of communication with the community goes a long way. Who knows maybe 1c controls that also.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Thundercracker

[Mysticpuma]

1 hour ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Thundercracker, in my opinion TFS doesn't communicate as much as 1C Game Studios does, maybe because there are serious differences between their respective game codes. Rise of Flight and its Great Battles offspring, this is a stable code, which allows the devs to plan and announce deadlines much more easier than the Cliffs of Dover code allows. Maybe TFS cannot take too many risks when announcing deadlines, maybe they have to deal with a too random way of working. I may be wrong, I don't know, all of this is very theoretical to me.

 

 

Anyone working on anything in TFS can spare 1 minute to make a screenshot and email it to Pattle. Pattle could then put an update together, keep momentum and keep talk/discussion going. 

 

Pattle could also save images and post them on the official TFS FB page or on here. 

 

In 2019 they released 1 single image of TrueSky in action in Clod. Then nothing. Buzzsaw mentioned that an update in Truesky had nullified all the work they had done and it would have to begin from scratch (I think August last year). 

 

So in all the time it was being worked on from 2019...not one screenshot more was taken? 

 

So TFS miss their May announcement, no-one expected anything other than that. One feature TFS have been good at is keeping all work in progress very much under wraps. Posts about what are hoped for or what they would like to do are very common but what is not common are physical visual updates of Alpha/Beta work in progress. 

 

A screenshot of VR alpha testing (which has been confirmed) would be a great talking point.....nothing. Further images of Truesky in action...... nothing. PBR texture side by side comparison..... nothing. 4K tile update side by side..... nothing.... etc, etc. 

 

The faithful and interested keep visiting these forums waiting for a crumb to be thrown from the table..... nothing. 

 

Publicity drives interest. Drives conversation. Drives the sharing across all social media. It builds interest, creates anticipation...... nothing. 

 

I, like everyone, await the update from Buzzsaw but generally talking about it generates nothing (except frustration) so the easiest thing to do is just be patient, pop back on this forum or ATAG every few days and maybe there will something shared with those still here..... eventually. 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

I accept what you say Puma, and I know your opinion from previous discussions we had. In my opinion all of this is gossip. If we love Cliffs of Dover then let's play the game in the awesome servers we have (ATAG, TF3, TWC, Dogz...). In the meantime, the game will evolve... or not. But the game is enjoyable as it is, if not we wouldn't be here. For the moment, this is sufficient enough... at least, to me.

 

 

[jdu]

Many people here have Duke Nukem Forever syndrome...

Edited June 1, 2021 by jdu

[Mysticpuma]

1 hour ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

I accept what you say Puma, and I know your opinion from previous discussions we had. In my opinion all of this is gossip. If we love Cliffs of Dover then let's play the game in the awesome servers we have (ATAG, TF3, TWC, Dogz...). In the meantime, the game will evolve... or not. But the game is enjoyable as it is, if not we wouldn't be here. For the moment, this is sufficient enough... at least, to me.

 

 

I care not for online play and wish for a much better offline experience but each to their own. 

 

Ultimately Kintaro we both sit in the same boat..... awaiting an update..... that one day will arrive no matter if it is just you and I left to play it

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 hour ago, Mysticpuma said:

I care not for online play and wish for a much better offline experience

 

 

Oh, I see. Personally I'm more into the online experience. The game, as it is, gives me the impression that we the online players are a bit more privileged than you who prefer the offline playing. Dealing with a potential single-player dynamic campaign section (I mean really among the menus in the game, not The Oden application), 10 months ago Buzzsaw stated "We are currently working on this... not clear when it might be available", so yes, I understand how you feel. At any rate, I'm confident with the implementation of a set of real dynamic campaigns... well, at some point in the future. We need to be patient with those future dynamic campaigns, I know. Nevertheless, both categories of players, offline and online, will benefit of the upcoming visual update (4K, TrueSky, VR, revised Channel map).

 

 

1 hour ago, Mysticpuma said:

awaiting an update..... that one day will arrive no matter if it is just you and I left to play it

 

 

Aaah, come on Puma, more than 2020, 2021 gives me impression that more and more players are coming to this game (really).

 

 

[Mysticpuma]

Could or will the graphics update allow an increase to the particle limit? I remember the work being done on the contrails which looked amazing, fixed all the issues with contrails going off at right-angle but had to be removed because once the particle limit was reached, all the effects vanished.

 

Here's what work in progress looked like:

 

 

[Buzzsaw]

Hello All

 

Regarding the planned announcement of the next module.

 

We have unfortunately had some other people in the team be affected by Covid and other illnesses.

 

This has delayed the process.

 

We hope to have an announcement in June.

[farley]

Hope everyone is ok and all return to full health.

[enyak]

Thanks for the update. I would of course like to see some media but I am very heartened by the planned addition of VR support.

[Voyager]

Sorry to hear about people on the team getting impacted by the human malware. Hopefully they're getting better soon. 

 

I'm also interested to hear more about what's going on with VR. 

 

I'm going to be reworking my rig to fit me better, which should make VR and flight sims much more playable for me again, and once I've gotten through the WWI stuff, it would be interested to revisit early WWII. 

 

I think the last time I really go through a Battle of Britain era flight sim, it was Lucas Arts Battle of Britain. And I had so little idea how any of that worked at the time too... 

[Mysticpuma]

On 6/4/2021 at 12:03 AM, Mysticpuma said:

Could or will the graphics update allow an increase to the particle limit? I remember the work being done on the contrails which looked amazing, fixed all the issues with contrails going off at right-angle but had to be removed because once the particle limit was reached, all the effects vanished.

 

Here's what work in progress looked like:

 

 

Bumping this question on the particle limit

[Mysticpuma]

Running the latest 5.023, there is a very bad visual bug in the ground explosion effects. This is at the moment the aircraft explodes. Also there doesn't seem to be much of an explosion any more?

 

Everything is maxed out (and yes I cleaned the cache)

 

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Mysticpuma

[BladeMeister]

.

Edited July 3, 2021 by BladeMeister

[Buzzsaw]

22 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Running the latest 5.023, there is a very bad visual bug in the ground explosion effects. This is at the moment the aircraft explodes. Also there doesn't seem to be much of an explosion any more?

 

Everything is maxed out (and yes I cleaned the cache)

 

 

We will look at this... but nothing has changed as far as I know.

[FTC_Karaya]

AFAIK effects are rendered at low res the first time they are triggered in a game session as the game has to load them in.

This can also be experienced when shooting another aircraft with HE rounds for the first time after launching the game. There's is a noticeable micro stutter as the explosion effects is loaded. Happens every time one launches the game.

 

Maybe the effects could be preloaded somehow to minimize this low res & stutter phenomenon?

[vonGraf]

On 7/3/2021 at 12:37 AM, Mysticpuma said:

Running the latest 5.023, there is a very bad visual bug in the ground explosion effects. This is at the moment the aircraft explodes. Also there doesn't seem to be much of an explosion any more?

 

Everything is maxed out (and yes I cleaned the cache)

 

 

 

When I go down and crash I can see this on my plane too.

[Pinguim]

I've noticed the game suffers to load textures from time to time. I would try restarting windows or increasing the virtual memory page file. I'm not sure it will work though.

[Mysticpuma]

Hi TFS. 

Please understand this isn't a criticism, simply a request for an update as to the new schedule. 

 

Summer has been missed but it is noted it was only hoped for. 

 

What do you see as the current road map to release of the graphics update, weather and VR? 

 

I read VR would be the main focus and after that work on graphics and weather would be the focus, but rather than speculate I thought it best to ask. 

 

Cheers, Mysticpuma. 

[Livai]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:28 AM, Karaya said:

 

Maybe the effects could be preloaded somehow to minimize this low res & stutter phenomenon?

 

 

Could be interesting, some other Games what I play have Texture Streaming in their Graphic Settings what I can enable or disable.

 

-> Texture Streaming
Turning off Texture Streaming will fully load textures into video memory at their highest resolution. This will increase map load times.

-> Texture Stream-In Only
Textures are only Streamed in, never out - video memory usage will increase over the course of a match. This gives similar benefits to fully loading textures without the increased map load times.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Livai

[Buzzsaw]

Hello All

 

I have deleted a number of threads after the discussion got out of hand and personal insults started to be exchanged.

 

If we get a repeat of the same the thread will be closed.

 

---

 

Regarding timelines for when the Visual Update/VR/trueSKY package will be ready, TF cannot at this point say, we are working to complete it as well as our limited time and manpower allows.

 

It will be delivered as a free update to all those who own the game.

 

Please limit this thread to discussion of the content of the update.

[Canvas25]

Many of us, even if we don't all express it in the forum, truly appreciate everything TFS does. Take all the time you need.