clickable cockpits, what's the appeal?

[Eisenfaustus]

I actually like the middle ground CLOD is taking. I personally don’t need to be able to set the frequency of my radio or have to power up my weapons before use. I find that stuff boring in real life in my ifv and I don’t need to do that in my scarce free time. 
 

But there is stuff I don‘t want to map to my HOTAS as it‘s useless in combat but nevertheless I‘d like to be able to do it without having to remove the vr headset or remember to which shift/control letter button I mapped it months ago:

Emergency procedures while nursing my kite home (feathering, switching to manual operation, operation multi engine throttles differently ect) and

stuff I‘d only set when I have the time (radiators, lights, the Stuka siren, contact altimeter, the bomb control panel and as soon as it’s added fuel management).

 

But am I willing to pay double for it?

 

No way! So I can absolutely live without it - although I run out of Buttons to fly the P47, Ju 87, Ju 88, La 5 and Fw 190 without changing controls ^^
 

And while Clod has that - it lacks VR so dudum... 

 

But they are working on it so in sometime in about 2 years I probably can fly with semiclickpits over the channel in VR - hooray! ^^

Edited May 17, 2021 by Eisenfaustus

[SharpeXB]

14 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

I actually like the middle ground CLOD is taking.

“Took” past tense… CloD is a 10 year old game… ?

[AndyJWest]

For those who are hungry, and desperately short of cash, many British supermarkets offer a solution. Or two solutions actually. They sell tins of baked beans for next to nothing. And also tins of baked beans with sausages, for a few pence more. Hence the endless queues of disgruntled customers at the tills, asking for compensation. Or a refund. Or sausages. Because they've bought the baked beans without sausages, and they didn't get any sausages in the tin. Which they should have done, because other tins of baked beans have sausages in them...

 

Except of course, that doesn't happen. Or at least, I've never seen it. You buy something, you get what you pay for. Except, apparently when it comes to air combat simulations, where buying something for a price which doesn't include 'sausages' entitles you to demand 'sausages' years later.

 

If I was Jason, I'd be tempted to give up his present job, and go into retail grocery instead. The customers are less demanding.

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by AndyJWest

[farley]

The thread title is "clickable cockpits, what's the appeal?".

Stating why we like or do not like clickable cockpits is, I believe, what the writer was asking.

 

The question did not ask whether they are feasible or the cost of constructing them, etc.

 

I stated why I like them, which was answering the question.

 

Replies about the cost and feasibility are irrelevant to the question asked.

 

[palker4]

I like CloD style clickable cockpits, you have few essential clickable buttons and that's it, no need to model every single fuse box button like DCS.

I can give you some examples why I like the clickable elements:

 

1. Fuel monitoring - I don't have to have a button bound to a key that i need to remember, I just click a cockpit button to change fuel tank. In great battles the fuel indicator selector constantly cycles through all the tanks which is a bit annoying since I never fly with 100% fuel and half of the tanks are usually empty.

2. Cylinder head temp sender selection on radials or other controls that are only on planes that I do not fly regularly and if I had a button for that I would forget it constantly.

3. In CloD mousing over an instrument shows you what value it's showing so I can read instruments even while fully zoomed out.

4. I like exploring the pit and figuring out what does what.

 

 

[F19_Haddock]

10 hours ago, palker4 said:

1. Fuel monitoring - I don't have to have a button bound to a key that i need to remember, I just click a cockpit button to change fuel tank. In great battles the fuel indicator selector constantly cycles through all the tanks ...

 

 

 

This is a really good point. They've gone through all the trouble of modelling, rigging and animating switches that are actually linked to existing systems, like the fuel selector... Seems like making them clickable is just one step away.

[SharpeXB]

4 hours ago, F19_Haddock said:

This is a really good point. They've gone through all the trouble of modelling, rigging and animating switches that are actually linked to existing systems, like the fuel selector... Seems like making them clickable is just one step away.

Fuel system controls are planned but clicking has never been. 

[farley]

14 hours ago, palker4 said:

 

1. Fuel monitoring - I don't have to have a button bound to a key that i need to remember, I just click a cockpit button to change fuel tank. In great battles the fuel indicator selector constantly cycles through all the tanks which is a bit annoying since I never fly with 100% fuel and half of the tanks are usually empty.

 

4. I like exploring the pit and figuring out what does what.

 

 

Being able to change fuel tanks is a good example of what would help immersion. I like clickable cockpits but would be happy if the ability to switch gas tanks were available (I don't think it is).

I know it' s a small thing, but I'd enjoy having to switch tanks manually. Either via a clickable cockpit or not.

Having said that, I do appreciate that most of the systems are usable and well done.

 

I guess that I don't feel a need to have a clickable cockpit as much as having as many systems as possible be usable to help make flying the bird as realistic as it can be.

Just adds to the challenge of it all.

[PatrickAWlson]

As a VR user click pits sound really nice.  No more fumbling to find the HOTAS key.  However, my current setup is not bad.  My biggest issues are the controls that require constant tuning.  Trim and some engine management functions like mixture.  For more leisurely stuff like flaps and gear a bit of fumbling for the right key is not bad.  Even bombs and rockets - I get my finger on the right button as I am lining up the run.  

 

I have several continuous controls (knobs and levers) that I have tried to map to controls like trim and mixture but without success, so they sit there wasted.  I seem to only have success mapping discrete controls (buttons and switches).  Better support for those (or me learning how to effectively map them) would help.

[Enceladus828]

On 5/17/2021 at 11:25 AM, SharpeXB said:

“Took” past tense… CloD is a 10 year old game… ?

DCS is a 13 year old game... ?

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, Enceladus said:

DCS is a 13 year old game... ?

Which has seen a lot more updates than CloD

[Enceladus828]

18 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Which has seen a lot more updates than CloD

But a lot more aircraft have been added to CloD than DCS, and a lot more aircraft will be added to CloD in their next installment 

[Wulfen]

On 4/18/2021 at 11:40 AM, Riderocket said:

I dont understand why so many people think clickable cockpits is a good idea or any more "realistic", it just means I have to remove my hand from the joystick to click on something.

 

I find in the new Microsoft flight simulator, cliffs of dover or DCS when I have to push a button in the cockpit I'm temporarily not in control and the plane ends up flying upwards or downwards, because I can only use the joystick or the mouse not both at the same time, so I end up binding most of it to my keyboard and quickly run out of bindings.

 

this is why I only really fly in Rise of Flight, IL2 1946 and IL2 GB.

 

The difference is night & day. Come back after you've flown the P-47 in DCS v IL2. 

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Enceladus said:

But a lot more aircraft have been added to CloD than DCS, and a lot more aircraft will be added to CloD in their next installment 

DCS is the reason I have uninstalled CloD

[NoelGallagher]

since the dev's modeled function of the what clickable cockpit would do anyway

wouldn't it be simple to make the clickable cockpit as an option in a setting menu?

 

i don't have any technical knowledge about how it works 

 

but it was my thinking that it'd had been nicer if they left the clcikable cockpit as an option you can choose in setting

 

also for tank crew

 

and i wonder the dev's ever gonna bring infantry in to this sim

 

i heard the rumor but it seems like it's cancelled

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by NoelGallagher

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

The current policy is no clickable cockpits , infantry yes .

 

[Eisenfaustus]

11 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

infantry yes

Because they modelled paratroopers (which are basically handsome bombs) or what are you talking about?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

3 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Because they modelled paratroopers (which are basically handsome bombs) or what are you talking about?

No, we need to w8 and  see, but that should be new take. 

[Enceladus828]

IMO, this is how things should be for clickable cockpits in this game:

 

1. They are to be added once BoN is fully released, or when drop tanks are added, DVD is applied to all aircraft currently in the game, radio comms and commands are improved to be like how they are in IL-2 1946 and CloD, pilots don't die when parachuting into the water, and pilots are able to exit their aircraft after landing or when the engine is on fire, or just don't die when you're in that situation; which ever of these come last.

2. Not everything is clickable (like in DCS), only the essential items are clickable... like in CloD.

3. At the start, will apply to Soviet aircraft due to the fact that the German, British, Italian, and American planes in this game are/will most likely be added in CloD.

4. Will be added in several month intervals. E.g. clickpits added to 2 planes now, clickpits added to another 2 planes 6 months from now, and so on.

 

Lastly guys, it's just an option. If you don't like clickable cockpits and think they're stupid and would rather use the keyboard, then that's fine. No one is forcing you to click things.

 

Cheers.

[Angry_Kitten]

It just means bigger downloads, and more often to do so. 

 

as far as i can tell, the only way to avoid having to use the click pits in CLOD is to do single player missions that involve an air start. 

 

I have some dyslexia, using the clickable cockpit is a bad thing for me. Half the time the controls dont work the way they SHOULD.  meaning if the keyboard command will move the throttle in small increments, the clickable control gives me maximum throttle even when i clicked it to the half way point on screen.. 

 

  Or that if i try to adjust the british gunsights using the mouse, it just spins to random distances and widths. and the ONLY actual control comes from the key board. 

 

    Or teh fact that i have to hit a control to activate the mouse clicking system, and then zoom around the cockpit and FIND what i need to do. 

 

    There is a reason i let the game do the engine controls for me. Sure i really do hate how the GB system does engine management in the last few updates.  But when im flying upside down, and ducking machine gun bullets, i dont have the TIME to be clicking away on crap. 

 

There are far better things that the "box" needs to work on... 

 

1. controls that dont reset to random values just because of a damned update. Seriously, every update has had random planes reset key binds.    NOTHING is fucking funny when your flying your favorite plane for the first time since an update, and rolling the stick to the right is what NOW controls engine throttle.

 

2. A CLOD system where the engine controls are simplified in the key binds. 

       Meaning if your in a single engine plane, you dont have the twin engine key binds active, and vice versa. 

 

3. Seperating ground vehicles from air vehicles in the control lists. I dont want to try to re bind the air plane turret controls just to find out afterwords ive re done the tank turret controls.

 

4.A serious redo on the auto engine controls. 

     Throttle especially needs work.  p51 last night, god, it was randomly running 0 to 100 up, down, up down, up down, the whole time. NOTHING less fun that constantly losing power mid flight.  

 

5. P 40 needs help. HOW the hell does a person get the engine over 80%?

 

 

 

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Will be added in several month intervals. E.g. clickpits added to 2 planes now, clickpits added to another 2 planes 6 months from now, and so on.

There are 50 aircraft in this game, so doing 4 of them every year would take 12 1/2 years… But hey you’re a CloD fan so waiting a whole decade for a game to be finished must seem normal for you. ?

[Dakpilot]

10 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Lastly guys, it's just an option. If you don't like clickable cockpits and think they're stupid and would rather use the keyboard, then that's fine. No one is forcing you to click things.

 

You are right that no one would be forced to use click able cockpits 

 

But they would be forced to absorb the huge cost and time involved to implement 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[Guest deleted@171995]

вы знаете. смотрел я как-то турнир по DCS. дуэльный. так там никто не пользовался кликабелностью. никто. в бою некогда крутить реостаты и тыкать кнопки. и зачем они нужны. если применения в бою им нет?

 

you know. I once watched a DCS tournament. dueling. so no one used clickability there. no one. in battle, there is no time to turn rheostats and poke buttons. and why they are needed. if they are not used in battle?

[sturmkraehe]

I personally never really liked clickable cockpits for one major reason:

 

It draws off quite a bit of attention because as far as I remember one has to toggle mouse mode on and then trying to move the mouse pointer to the location while simultaneously trying to steer the plane. I always thought that I'd need a third arm for that (1 hand's on the stick, 1 one the throttle, the third could handle the mouse). The difficulty is that I'd have to use my right hand for the mouse lacking the 3rd arm but it is the right one which handles the stick. As the stick is on the right side of my desk I cannot just switch to my left hand like a pilot in a real world plane would. And I am absolutely helpless manipulating the mouse with my left hand.

[Angry_Kitten]

21 hours ago, Gimpel said:

вы знаете. смотрел я как-то турнир по DCS. дуэльный. так там никто не пользовался кликабелностью. никто. в бою некогда крутить реостаты и тыкать кнопки. и зачем они нужны. если применения в бою им нет?

 

you know. I once watched a DCS tournament. dueling. so no one used clickability there. no one. in battle, there is no time to turn rheostats and poke buttons. and why they are needed. if they are not used in battle?

its the same reason that  cell phone companies think that everyone should be forced to buy a phone prelaoded with facebook and not give users a way to delete it.. 

 

 

[F19_Haddock]

On 6/6/2021 at 8:15 AM, Gimpel said:

вы знаете. смотрел я как-то турнир по DCS. дуэльный. так там никто не пользовался кликабелностью. никто. в бою некогда крутить реостаты и тыкать кнопки. и зачем они нужны. если применения в бою им нет?

 

you know. I once watched a DCS tournament. dueling. so no one used clickability there. no one. in battle, there is no time to turn rheostats and poke buttons. and why they are needed. if they are not used in battle?

 

Yep. I'm a big fan of the FC3 planes in DCS like the Su-25, and it's true that once in the thick of combat you don't miss the clickable cockpits.

But I have the same problem as in IL2: I play in VR and I have run out of buttons on my HOTAS. To do some of the more mundane actions like turning the landing lights ON, or opening the landing drag chute I have to lift my headset and peek at the keyboard, and it really ruins the experience. Clickable cockpits would help a lot for VR players, or at least some in-game overlay menu like in Flight Simulator 2020.

[sturmkraehe]

22 minutes ago, F19_Haddock said:

 

Yep. I'm a big fan of the FC3 planes in DCS like the Su-25, and it's true that once in the thick of combat you don't miss the clickable cockpits.

But I have the same problem as in IL2: I play in VR and I have run out of buttons on my HOTAS. To do some of the more mundane actions like turning the landing lights ON, or opening the landing drag chute I have to lift my headset and peek at the keyboard, and it really ruins the experience. Clickable cockpits would help a lot for VR players, or at least some in-game overlay menu like in Flight Simulator 2020.

I guess we urgently need touch screens. But I fear this won't help you VR guys.

[unlikely_spider]

On 6/6/2021 at 3:15 AM, Gimpel said:

вы знаете. смотрел я как-то турнир по DCS. дуэльный. так там никто не пользовался кликабелностью. никто. в бою некогда крутить реостаты и тыкать кнопки. и зачем они нужны. если применения в бою им нет?

 

you know. I once watched a DCS tournament. dueling. so no one used clickability there. no one. in battle, there is no time to turn rheostats and poke buttons. and why they are needed. if they are not used in battle?

What percentage of time do you spend in battle during any given sortie? I'm not sure that anybody would say that they're clicking any items in the cockpit while they're actively dogfighting.

[DD_Crash]

1 hour ago, F19_Haddock said:

 

Yep. I'm a big fan of the FC3 planes in DCS like the Su-25, and it's true that once in the thick of combat you don't miss the clickable cockpits.

But I have the same problem as in IL2: I play in VR and I have run out of buttons on my HOTAS. To do some of the more mundane actions like turning the landing lights ON, or opening the landing drag chute I have to lift my headset and peek at the keyboard, and it really ruins the experience. Clickable cockpits would help a lot for VR players, or at least some in-game overlay menu like in Flight Simulator 2020.

VoiceAttack works well and you could always add ViaCom as well

[Guest deleted@171995]

1 час назад, unlikely_spider сказал:

Какой процент времени вы проводите в бою во время каждого боевого вылета? Я не уверен, что кто-то скажет, что они щелкают по каким-либо предметам в кабине, пока ведут активный воздушный бой.

unfortunately. my translator is translating something strange. I didn't get your point yet. I'll answer you later

[Guest deleted@171995]

yes. I have not watched many streams on tks. I have never seen them. that someone is using clickability in combat. before departure, yes.

[Enceladus828]

On 6/5/2021 at 6:45 PM, SharpeXB said:

There are 50 aircraft in this game, so doing 4 of them every year would take 12 1/2 years… But hey you’re a CloD fan so waiting a whole decade for a game to be finished must seem normal for you. ?

ROFL, notice how I said Soviet planes first? Also, for the Yak-9, Yak-9T, and Pe-2 series 35 and Pe-2 series 87, they have very similar cockpits so you could have 4 aircraft done in one update, and another 2 like the IL-2 1941 mod and IL-2 1942 mod, possibly even the IL-2 1943 mod, and one more aircraft done in the next 2 updates. And my thing about this being done every 6 months is just an estimate, could be longer, could be shorter period of time.

 

Also, the Russian and German fuel trucks, and the Summer Velikie Luki map are not necessary to the development of BoN, but because the devs had the $, they added them to the game. Same goes with the C-47 and Li-2, my guess is that the sales did so well since BoN was announced that they now have the $ to make those planes flyable. If we keep this up we'll have a flyable B-25, B-26 in the next installment, and then quite possibly clickable cockpits in Soviet planes first sometime after.

 

On 6/8/2021 at 8:22 AM, unlikely_spider said:

What percentage of time do you spend in battle during any given sortie? I'm not sure that anybody would say that they're clicking any items in the cockpit while they're actively dogfighting.

Yeah, when dogfighting, pretty much everything is already set before the dogfight, and when I'm playing CloD I always press a button on the keyboard to extend the flaps if I need to when I'm dogfighting.

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, Enceladus said:

ROFL, notice how I said Soviet planes first?

If you’re trying to make this sound easy, it’s not. There are 50 aircraft!

Plus the Devs already have said repeatedly that they aren’t doing this so you’re wasting your time. 

On 6/8/2021 at 10:22 AM, unlikely_spider said:

What percentage of time do you spend in battle during any given sortie? I'm not sure that anybody would say that they're clicking any items in the cockpit while they're actively dogfighting.

Indeed, in DCS the vast majority of the clickable controls are used to start up the aircraft. After that you won’t use many of them. Anything you need readily available is mapped to a HOTAS. I can only think of some bomb arming panels you might click on but that’s all. The Spit MkIX is in both games and aside from startup I use exactly the same HOTAS controls. There’s no different as far as controls are concerned once you’re airborne. There’s like a drop tank handle. But we are probably getting that too at some point. 

On 6/5/2021 at 3:16 PM, Enceladus said:

2. Not everything is clickable (like in DCS), only the essential items are clickable... like in CloD.

The only real reason to have a clickable cockpit is for full systems modeling. Having only the essential items clickable is no benefit since there are already mapped to a HOTAS. 

[Enceladus828]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Plus the Devs already have said repeatedly that they aren’t doing this so you’re wasting your time. 

You know, I recently used the search function before everything got messed up with that, and the last time the developers (Jason in this thread) addressed this was back in May 2017. 

 

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Anything you need readily available is mapped to a HOTAS. I can only think of some bomb arming panels you might click on but that’s all.

 

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

The only real reason to have a clickable cockpit is for full systems modeling. Having only the essential items clickable is no benefit since there are already mapped to a HOTAS. 

What about the gunsight dimmer, fuel cocks for each fuel tank, directional gyro, magnetos, switching the Propeller control from Automatic to Manual, trim, cockpit lighting, Oil radiator, and several other things, should I just map all of that stuff and the bomb arming panel to my HOTAS?

[BraveSirRobin]

25 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

You know, I recently used the search function before everything got messed up with that, and the last time the developers (Jason in this thread) addressed this was back in May 2017. 

 

How frequently do you have to be told that they’re not adding clickpits before you accept that they’re not adding clickpits?

30 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

 

What about the gunsight dimmer, fuel cocks for each fuel tank, directional gyro, magnetos, switching the Propeller control from Automatic to Manual, trim, cockpit lighting, Oil radiator, and several other things, should I just map all of that stuff and the bomb arming panel to my HOTAS?

 

http://www.thrustmaster.com/products/mfd-cougar-pack

[SharpeXB]

43 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

What about the gunsight dimmer, fuel cocks for each fuel tank, directional gyro, magnetos, switching the Propeller control from Automatic to Manual, trim, cockpit lighting, Oil radiator, and several other things, should I just map all of that stuff and the bomb arming panel to my HOTAS?

GB has all those. Except:

gunsight dimmer… who cares?

fuel controls are planned

magnetos, only used for startup

 

Yeah you do map that stuff to a HOTAS, that’s what it’s for. 

[Enceladus828]

42 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Yeah you do map that stuff* to a HOTAS, that’s what it’s for. 

 

*gunsight dimmer, fuel cocks for each fuel tank, directional gyro, switching the Propeller control from Automatic to Manual, trim, cockpit lighting, Oil radiator, the bomb arming panel, and several other things.

What, you map all that stuff to a HOTAS? Seems kind of unnecessary as I would rather map other things to my HOTAS that I use quite more often when I’m flying than those things, in particular, a button to pause the game when I’m using VR.

 

I would probably run out of buttons for less important things assigned my HOTAS long before I even started assigning buttons for firing guns, rockets, and bombs.

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Enceladus

[SharpeXB]

14 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

What, you map all that stuff to a HOTAS?

The most used commands, yes. For the others a keyboard works fine. This game is perfectly playable without a clickable cockpit. It’s the choice between a game with 6 highly modeled aircraft vs one with 50 sufficiently modeled ones. I think having the choice between these options is great and I like both sims. But It would be impossible for a single game to encompass all those qualities. 

[unlikely_spider]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

After that you won’t use many of them. Anything you need readily available is mapped to a HOTAS. I can only think of some bomb arming panels you might click on but that’s all. The Spit MkIX is in both games and aside from startup I use exactly the same HOTAS controls. There’s no different as far as controls are concerned once you’re airborne. There’s like a drop tank handle. But we are probably getting that too at some point. 

Well, I kind of disagree that I don't use non-mapped controls after liftoff. Maybe I can map as much as possible to my HOTAS, but each plane is so different that I don't think I want to. The operation of fuel management and drop tanks, for example, are so different from plane to plane that it's likely to be quite simplified in GB than in DCS where you actually have to follow the real procedures.

 

But much of it is simple preference I think. Take the two panel flood lights in the Spitfire, for example. How many GB-only pilots do you think even know where these are? I know that I can hit L or alt-L or ctrl-L or whatever it is that turns on cockpit lights in any GB plane, and they will turn on. But in a clickpit, I will reach down and turn each nob to the brightness that I need. For me, learning how it worked specifically in the Spit or whatever plane I'm into at any moment is much more immersive than hitting some alt or Ctrl combination on my keyboard. And it's why all the planes in GB seem much more samey than the planes in DCS or MSFS or X-Plane.

 

Once in the Tomcat while in VR (if you may indulge me to speak about a modernish plane here for a moment), I was looking down at the radio panel to change the channel I was on. But the sun was shining directly on the panel and the LCD was washed out and I couldn't see the value. So I rolled my plane so that shadow crept across the panel and I could see the numbers, then turned the requisite knob to the channel I needed to be on.

Maybe that speaks more to the complex radio mgmt that DCS has vs GB, but it also directly involved interaction with the cockpit vs just hitting a keyboard combo or HOTAS switch to get what I wanted. The immersion is unrivaled and that moment really struck me as to how realistic things can be when done properly.

 

I am someone who actually enjoys reading the plane manuals and learning the intracies of each plane. It's a  direct connection to history. Managing the fuel or radios or engines just like the actual pilots did 80 years ago is my connection to these pilots of yore, and hitting alt-L just doesn't accomplish that in the same way. But if it is to you, that's fine. But this topic is "what's the appeal", so I'm just trying to explain the appeal in my eyes.

[SharpeXB]

7 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

I am someone who actually enjoys reading the plane manuals and learning the intracies of each plane. It's a  direct connection to history

I like that level of detail too. But you’re missing the fact that each DCS WWII aircraft takes about 18+ months to make and costs $49. For GB to incorporate that level of detail for 50 aircraft is impossible. 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by SharpeXB