Skoshi_Tiger Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Very nice video! I am waiting in anticipation to see test of the guns! Keep up the hard work!
Uufflakke Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 1) As it was said before (sorry, I can't find a proof link atm) the business model will be different than in RoF. Found something about it in this link: http://forum.il2sturmovik.net/topic/6-about-partnership-and-battle-stalingrad/ "Q. What is the business model for BOS? A. BOS will have a few different options for new users that will put them in the cockpit and new content added over time after initial launch.The BOS business model will have some similar aspects with ROF, but it will not be identical."
Noter Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Outstanding video. When the element is viewed from the side, it looks like the trailing 109 has a little reflective glare towards the tail section. That would be great to have that effect in the game.
kestrel79 Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Is anyone else really excited about resupply missions? This sounds very cool. I've always wanted more mission variety instead of just your generic fighters and bombers missions. Great video. There's a really nice "feeling" of flight the way the 109s just gently sway back and forth and make small corrections. Looks very real great job! 1
csThor Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 2) In the scale of one Phase (and there's gonna be 6 of them) - much likely. But if you jump to a bomber you may find yourself in another regiment - and it makes perfect sence. Just a remark. I would find it highly unusual (not to say weird but it's not far off) to allow for cross-branch transfers of aircrew. I mean training aircrew for specific tasks was complex, resource-intense and costly and - at least for the Luftwaffe - the training regimes and the profiling of each pilot candidate for specific abilities (= finding out which candidate was suitable for fighter ops, which one for Stuka and who was better off flying the bigger crates) were still largely unimpeded by wartime shortages until after Stalingrad. IMO it would be better to limit the transfer ability to the branch the player has selected since that makes a lot more sense than hopping from fighter to Stuka to bomber and back just on a whim. Not to mention that changing aircraft types in reality was a somewhat lengthy process to teach the aircrews how to operate their new mounts. For example changing from a He 111 to a Ju 88 was a very difficult and complex task and as far as I could find out the Luftwaffe largely tried to avoid such changes since it took considerable time (weeks or even months) for the crews to regain their readiness for frontline service on the new type. For example when KG 1 exchanged its He 111 for Ju 88 after the BoB it took them months of training to "get back in shape" as the Ju 88 was a much more complex aircraft than the relatively simple Heinkel. 3
Trooper117 Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Excellent stuff on the update... I'm informed there won't be any lend lease aircraft in the release though.. pity! I do hope though that the 'progression' to another mission doesn't go down the road of a specific target having to be destroyed or neutralised before being able to continue. That would be a definite first 'negative' for me... Edited June 21, 2013 by Trooper117
JtD Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Interesting, but it seems the campaign mode will not be my cup of tea. I'll really have to chew on the idea of dropping the "historical campaign" for some arcade "fly to clear contents and swap sides whenever you like". I know it's fun, I played a few arcade racing games that did the same, but I find it totally unsuitable for a flight simulation game. What's wrong with doing a tour of duty with a specific squadron and be done with it? It's supposed to be "historical". 1
smink1701 Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Thanks for being faithful to the Friday update and for the great vid. One aspect that continues to impress is how realistic the planes look in flight. Many games in the past have exhibited a slight twichiness or robotic feel that doesn't seem fluid or realistic and reinforces that you are looking at a computer-generated game. Making beautiful models is great and yours look amazing. But even "photo-realistic" will only get you so far if the planes / fm's or ai behave strangely. I am really impressed.
csThor Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Upon further reflection and reading. You'll be free to change sides before every mission. Sorry, but that is not my cup of tea (as far as I can judge it at this point). Although it implies a dynamic engine underneath the surface, that takes away some of the immersion and the historical background. It reminds me of the "Jump to Mission in Flight" or "Select Mission from List" (across all Squadron borders) from Falcon 4 which a lot of people loved, but which goes against every of my instincts WRT history. I'll take a wait and see attitude to this. Maybe it sounds more dramatic than it is in the end. Every regiment has a home base and specific aircraft in service. Does this include transfers to other bases as the frontline situation demands or upon orders from above? Does this also include changes of aircraft types (i.e. switching from Bf 109 F-2 to Fw 190 A-3 for I./JG 51)? Are various sub-types of the same type possible (i.e. one unit having a mix of Bf 109 G-2 and G-4)? If you choose a fighter, ground attack or bomber the gameplay will be different which helps us bring you three different flight-sim experiences. The types of missions that are offered are very diverse and give you the freedom to choose one that suits you best. Some players prefer intense dogfights or ground assaults against armor or massive bombing raids hitting transportation lines or troops. I have a specific question about bombers. In all previous "incarnations" of Il-2 area targets were not possible ... so no realistic interdiction or attacks on specific area targets (supply dumps, airfields etc) without "crutches" such as individual objects to count the hit rate. Is this going to be possible in BoS? An explanation: You're flying with 6./KG 55 from Morozovskaya and are tasked to bomb a specific stretch of road south of Stalingrad to interrupt enemy supply lines. Since targeting individual trucks from 4,500m is impossible the success of the mission should be derived from the amount of bombs within a specific distance to the road (IMO). Is such a thing possible? Also our mission generator pays attention to the phase you're playing - i.e. stage of the battle. For instance, Luftwaffe bombers fly more supply missions than bombing raids during the aerial bridge period, while Soviet fighters try to intercept them more often. Such a situation is drastically different from what happened in the air during earlier stages of the battle. Thus, the variety of mission types allows you to see the operation from all points of view. Does this mean "Verpflegungsbomben" (supply containers with parachutes that can be dropped at specific points) are included as loadout for the He 111? Would be nice. Along with you and your AI controlled enemies, a whole bunch of other AI planes will be active in every mission. You may meet friendly or enemy units flying by, scouting, bombing or fighting each other. Both the air and ground will be filled with action and your mission won't be fought by you alone, but with friendly AI crews. Should you engage a hostile recon unit? Will you try to help a pair of friendlies outnumbered by an enemy squad? Can you protect a group of ground assault planes from a sudden attack? It is up to you to decide, but remember - you're on your own mission with its own priorities! I'm going to ask a very difficult question, but I have to. Are doctrinal differences in the use of air forces possible to model? To explain: The VVS was very restrictive about its units and gave very specific orders on what to do which also included the how (to some degree). Fighters, for example, were restricted from flying fighter sweeps with the same amount of freedom as the Luftwaffe - they were usually assigned a specific location (or ground target) which they were supposed to protect and when flying escort they were not allowed to pursue enemy aircraft. Translated into the game it should be pretty much impossible for a german unit to meet soviet fighters over german territory unless they were escorting soviet ground-attack aircraft or bombers or covering soviet ground forces in a specific area for the reasons I outlined above. Is such behavior possible to model? Thx in advance. Edited June 21, 2013 by csThor 3
royraiden Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Good update as usual, Im eager to know more about the multiplayer aspects to be honest.Video was brilliant,I know its just two 109's not doing much, but they look great.
BraveSirRobin Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 What's wrong with doing a tour of duty with a specific squadron and be done with it? It's supposed to be "historical". I'm pretty sure you can do that if you want to.
Zak Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Upon further reflection and reading. Sorry, but that is not my cup of tea (as far as I can judge it at this point). Although it implies a dynamic engine underneath the surface, that takes away some of the immersion and the historical background. It reminds me of the "Jump to Mission in Flight" or "Select Mission from List" (across all Squadron borders) from Falcon 4 which a lot of people loved, but which goes against every of my instincts WRT history. I'll take a wait and see attitude to this. Maybe it sounds more dramatic than it is in the end. To switch sides you'll need to quit, say, your Soviet profile and enter your German profile. Your progress in these two braches is not sharing. Does this include transfers to other bases as the frontline situation demands or upon orders from above? Does this also include changes of aircraft types (i.e. switching from Bf 109 F-2 to Fw 190 A-3 for I./JG 51)? Are various sub-types of the same type possible (i.e. one unit having a mix of Bf 109 G-2 and G-4)? Most possibly you'll be free to complete the entire campaign flying the very first planes. If these subtypes are made of particular modifications that one can unlock (or have unlocked before) - yes. I have a specific question about bombers. In all previous "incarnations" of Il-2 area targets were not possible ... so no realistic interdiction or attacks on specific area targets (supply dumps, airfields etc) without "crutches" such as individual objects to count the hit rate. Is this going to be possible in BoS? An explanation: You're flying with 6./KG 55 from Morozovskaya and are tasked to bomb a specific stretch of road south of Stalingrad to interrupt enemy supply lines. Since targeting individual trucks from 4,500m is impossible the success of the mission should be derived from the amount of bombs within a specific distance to the road (IMO). Is such a thing possible? Bombing missions are about bombing. Can't tell more now, sorry Does this mean "Verpflegungsbomben" (supply containers with parachutes that can be dropped at specific points) are included as loadout for the He 111? Would be nice. It doesn't mean that, but anything can happen thou I'm going to ask a very difficult question, but I have to. Are doctrinal differences in the use of air forces possible to model? To explain: The VVS was very restrictive about its units and gave very specific orders on what to do which also included the how (to some degree). Fighters, for example, were restricted from flying fighter sweeps with the same amount of freedom as the Luftwaffe - they were usually assigned a specific location (or ground target) which they were supposed to protect and when flying escort they were not allowed to pursue enemy aircraft. Translated into the game it should be pretty much impossible for a german unit to meet soviet fighters over german territory unless they were escorting soviet ground-attack aircraft or bombers or covering soviet ground forces in a specific area for the reasons I outlined above. Is such behavior possible to model? AI behavoir is adjustible. If we find this or that feature not only historical but also interesting for players, we'll consider adding it to the game. What's wrong with doing a tour of duty with a specific squadron and be done with it? It's supposed to be "historical". There's nothing that makes it NOT historical. You think you'd be missing your AI buds if you leave them? Then stay in your good old squad.
Foobar Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Oh.. Did not know that. So in real life this effect would be fluent instead? Only if you are sitting absolutely quite and motionless in your cockpit/environment. As soon your own plane starts to rumble/vibrate and therefore your head is beeing moved then you will recognize quite well that effect on other propellors. So the truth is somewhere in the middle.
71st_AH_Hooves Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Looks great guys! Im glad that both campaigns are getting equal love, it really ups the content level! Ive never really been into bombing missions (mostly as Im terrible at it) this looks like a great time to start learning. Which leads me to a question. Are the bombers sights going for a realistic portrayal of actual the sights they used or is it a generic War thunder type sight? Im sure more on that will come later, Just throwing it out there.
Zak Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Are the bombers sights going for a realistic portrayal of actual the sights they used or is it a generic War thunder type sight? Im sure more on that will come later, Just throwing it out there. Battle of Stalingrad is a flight sim so there's one bomb sight that I can confirm already - it's a proper bomb sight that you'd see if you were flying He-111, Pe-2, etc. There's no info about simplified view options yet. 2
Avimimusold Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Thanks for the info - I'm glad it will be like Rise of Flight with at least some offline functionality for those of us at high latitudes and in remote areas. The reply is really appreciated. There are still many areas where we only have dial-up modems which cut out regularly and run at long-distance rates!
Caudron431 Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Great job! The video is awesome: 1CGS guys and girls, you are making me dream Thanks. Just a question: will ground looping and (similar effects) be modelled? Could be nice to see how the 109 reacts to those on an icy/snowy runaway. Making take off and landing phases more challenging than with the old IL2 would be really nice.
Dooga Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 We can't say now but we want to make this in the future. Coop-Campaign would be a fantastic feature - and I'm really looking forward to flying that 109!
JtD Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) There's nothing that makes it NOT historical. You think you'd be missing your AI buds if you leave them? Then stay in your good old squad. So can I have careers running on German side with 8 different units and with 12 on Soviet side simultaneously, playing whichever I'm in the mood for, with the game keeping track of all careers separately? Will a campaign end when the unit was historically withdrawn from the battle? Can I simply start a career late in the battle with a unit that historically arrived only at the later stages? The way I understood the update, the answer to all questions is the same - no. Please tell me I misunderstood. Edited June 21, 2013 by JtD
FlatSpinMan Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 I have no more info than you, JtD, but from reading the same info you did my take is: 1) I don't know about the number of careers you can have going at once beyond a Soviet and an Axis one, but why would you assume that you couldn't? In RoF you can have about 5 careers active at once - if you don't get killed all the time like I do. 2) From the update it sounded like you'd get transferred to another unit if your unit withdrew from battle. I'd hope it is for the same type of plane, though switching from say a 109 to a 190, for example, seems fine to me, personally. 3) It sounds like you'd need to play through the earlier phases of the campaign in order to access the later stages, so if your desired unit came in late, I would guess that you could choose to play as them only if you had completed earlier sections. That is all just a guess! Nothing there is to be tied to 777/1C as the official gospel.
JtD Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 FlatSpinMan, today I'm probably in a "half empty" mood. The description of the "historical campaign" mode just doesn't sound historical to me. It sound as if the environment was set up near historical, with the player having plenty of choices of only unhistorical things to do. About time for an alpha version to test it out, I'd say.
BraveSirRobin Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 FlatSpinMan, today I'm probably in a "half empty" mood. The description of the "historical campaign" mode just doesn't sound historical to me. It sound as if the environment was set up near historical, with the player having plenty of choices of only unhistorical things to do. It also seems like there is a simple solution to that problem: Don't do any of the unhistorical things that the game allows others to do.
ISIDA Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 About time for an alpha version to test it out, I'd say. Beta test is coming soon
Zak Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 So can I have careers running on German side with 8 different units and with 12 on Soviet side simultaneously, playing whichever I'm in the mood for, with the game keeping track of all careers separately? Will a campaign end when the unit was historically withdrawn from the battle? You can have I profile for the Germans and one for the Russians. You can pick any available regiment. The only reason you may not be allowed to pick it is if it were removed from the front lines in the depicted period of war. Can I simply start a career late in the battle with a unit that historically arrived only at the later stages? It is not a career, it's a campaing built up up of dynamically generated missions.
Bussard_x Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Good work on the shining metal, makes it look realistic. Very excited about the historic campaign; join other regiments, choose from available aircraft in the regiment. I am sure the campaign is a key success factor for the simulation.
SYN_Haashashin Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Well my first post here but i have to say looks and sounds amazing,good work team !If you need any Beta testers i will be around Hi Roen, nice to see you around here, waiting for your "painting" using BoS. About the update, sound great and looks awsome.
JtD Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 It also seems like there is a simple solution to that problem: Don't do any of the unhistorical things that the game allows others to do. No, the problem appears to be that there are ONLY unhistorical options. If not choosing these, the alternative is not to play, which would suck. Beta test is coming soon Looking forward to it. @Zak - OK, I guess I really have to see it to know if I can like it. Career - campaign - should be a similar thing in my opinion. A campaign where some random things that happen to happen are in the focus and in which the player is just a side note which can jump to any place he/she's curious about is what I guess we get, whereas my preference is that a person the player plays is the centre of attention. One of the worst and most extreme examples I remember is 1942 the Pacific Air War, where the player could jump from plane to plane mid air. On the bottom line, I have probably played a few thousand campaign/career missions in several flight simulation games, none of which were perfect and I still enjoyed them. Guess once I'm over the (perceived) oddities of the BoS campaign, it will be the same thing.
BraveSirRobin Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 No, the problem appears to be that there are ONLY unhistorical options. If not choosing these, the alternative is not to play, which would suck. How did you reach that conclusion? Are you assuming that pilots can be forced to transfer from bombers to fighters (or vice versa)?
SvAF/F19_Klunk Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Beta test is coming soon is there a sign-up anywhere? I have a whole squad at http://www.svaf.net who would love to participate and contribute to the development. Edited June 21, 2013 by F19_Klunk
Jason_Williams Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 There is no beta sign up at the moment. Jason
Uufflakke Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 ISIDA (Community manager) : "Beta test is coming soon" Jason Williams (Administrator): "There is no beta sign up at the moment." Which means there is a beta test. And no sign up for members. Or no beta test at all? Confusion from my side....
Drum_Tastic Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 I must say based on what I have seen and read so far I am very much looking forward to this release.
JG4_Sputnik Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Hey, very nice update thank you! The whole campaign and online/offline is a bit clearer to me now Good job, the planes look awesome. Can't wait to see more!
JG27_Chivas Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Not sure why people have an angst for non historical options. Its just an option, it doesn't have to be selected. Historically, you couldn't ignore the fact your were killed on your last mission.
JG13_opcode Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 FlatSpinMan, today I'm probably in a "half empty" mood. The description of the "historical campaign" mode just doesn't sound historical to me. It sound as if the environment was set up near historical, with the player having plenty of choices of only unhistorical things to do. About time for an alpha version to test it out, I'd say. Chin up. There's no reason that someone can't use the FMB to build an oldschool campaign. Typically a hobbyist has the motivation to put in months of research and work that just aren't commercially viable for a small development studio. Someone who's truly interested in historical correctness shouldn't care if there's social media integration or whatever silliness the offline mode will have ISIDA (Community manager) : "Beta test is coming soon" Jason Williams (Administrator): "There is no beta sign up at the moment." Which means there is a beta test. And no sign up for members. Or no beta test at all? Confusion from my side.... It means "Beta testing coming in 2 weeks, be sure" and also means "they are not taking sign-ups for beta testing. That also begins in 2 weeks. Be sure."
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