Thoughts on Biplanes vs Ground Vehicles (MP)?

[Monostripezebra]

So with the current state of tank crew (which I don´t own) and from what I´ve seen of the multiplayer side of it, airpower sorta dominates.. and I always wondered, how would this be with a lot less capable aircraft?

 

While there obviously no classic historic scenario that would match (except for Po2 antics), I wonder if an alternate history scenario, or one with a limited vehicle set and a bit of a historic stretch set in the post WW1 chaos in the east would provice a fun multiplayer setting.

 

Semi-"Historic" scenarios could range from the Allied Intervention in the Russian Civil War to Freikorps in Baltics or the Greater Poland Uprising which saw the use of aircraft in the FC inventory to completely alternate history ones..

 

Overall, I was thinking along the lines of maybe "Freikorps" or polish Halberstadt CLIIs against GAZ-MM AAA-trucks, you know becker cannons and bombs from slow fragile biplanes against lorry guns and wondered if that could be balanced and fun?

 

What are your thoughts on biplanes vs playable groundstuff? Any one else curious if there would be any fun and working scenarios?

[=IRFC=Gardimus]

Thats not a bad idea. I know the guys at Friday Night Flights wanted to do a tank battle night, and maybe integrating WW1 planes is the way to go for that. 

[ZachariasX]

On 4/5/2021 at 10:47 PM, Monostripezebra said:

Overall, I was thinking along the lines of maybe "Freikorps" or polish Halberstadt CLIIs against GAZ-MM AAA-trucks, you know becker cannons and bombs from slow fragile biplanes against lorry guns and wondered if that could be balanced and fun?

That would probably hold some fun due to it being extremely easy to aim from the WW1 crates compared to what I imagine it to be from a real aircraft. Given that the GAZ-MM AAA truck hast at minimum twice (or rather three times) the practical range, it would be open suicide to do so.

 

I often made fun in this place about how futile it is to aim at aircraft with hand cranked cannons. (Especially if "aim and shoot" is the basic extent of your imagination on how to use AAA guns.) But if you have almost stationary targets (<200 km/h is in that department) you can get efficient.

[Monostripezebra]

On 4/7/2021 at 8:44 AM, ZachariasX said:

That would probably hold some fun due to it being extremely easy to aim from the WW1 crates compared to what I imagine it to be from a real aircraft. Given that the GAZ-MM AAA truck hast at minimum twice (or rather three times) the practical range, it would be open suicide to do so.

 

I often made fun in this place about how futile it is to aim at aircraft with hand cranked cannons. (Especially if "aim and shoot" is the basic extent of your imagination on how to use AAA guns.) But if you have almost stationary targets (<200 km/h is in that department) you can get efficient.

 

I am by no means an expert on WW1 AAA, but I am always kinda fascinated how different things went.. from the "myth" that in the beginning low flying was done relative safe because a lot of ill-trained soldiers did not understand how to lead the target (or at least that is what Manfred v. Richthofen wrote on the matter) to surprising successes with totally inadequate equipment, such as field artillery shooting down aircraft.. for example probably the first such event was near Oneux where the 6th battery of reg. 46 shoot down a french or belgian aircraft on 10-08-1914 and the early "success" of the germans did also include german aircraft, as they shot simply at everything (on 25 agust 1914 the FFA7 lost an aircraft to german infantry) there seems to be a less of a general tendency but rather very different outcomes depending on what units where involved under what circumstances..

 

For the above game scenario though, I would not be convinced that it would be soo one-sided, as on the aircrafts side is simply mobility and the ability to spot from relative safe altitude and then use that knowledge. I mean, in WW1 the whole  low level "Schlachtflieger" thing did also work to a degree, despite the high risks and relative efficency of the weapons against slow biplanes.

 

Another (possibly) fun scenario would be to try and see if it works if you have players in AAA trucks have to defend balloons from attacking player aircrafts or so..  I wonder how that would go and if it could be fun.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Monostripezebra

[J2_Trupobaw]

The slower you go, the more accurate your bombs are, right? 

[DD_Arthur]

I have a feeling the Gaz and it’s gun would make short work of the WW1 crates.

 I’ve shot down several ‘109’s with the fifty cal. on the Sherman in multiplayer coops.

 

It’s not because I’m a great shot; it’s because to get a good hit with bombs you have to be ultra accurate, shallow dive onto your target and release at the very last second.

It’s not a difficult shot for a ground gunner when the aircraft is attempting to dive down your throat!

 

Add on the much lower speeds of WW1...........

[Monostripezebra]

On 4/8/2021 at 8:02 PM, J2_Trupobaw said:

The slower you go, the more accurate your bombs are, right? 

 

I don´t think that this would matter too much.. or at least not as much as the easier target.

 

On 4/8/2021 at 8:36 PM, DD_Arthur said:

I have a feeling the Gaz and it’s gun would make short work of the WW1 crates.

 I’ve shot down several ‘109’s with the fifty cal. on the Sherman in multiplayer coops.

 

It’s not because I’m a great shot; it’s because to get a good hit with bombs you have to be ultra accurate, shallow dive onto your target and release at the very last second.

It’s not a difficult shot for a ground gunner when the aircraft is attempting to dive down your throat!

 

Add on the much lower speeds of WW1...........

 

Probably. But I would assume tactics would make a huge difference. I shot quite a few planes down online with the default tanks, simply because people would approach me stupidly thinking that them beeing in a plane with speed would make them safe. But planes like the P-38 with a lot of heavy bombs and high speeds and climbs can simply swoop down and eleminate ground units very one-sidedly. When I flew the the Po-2 online it was very fun, I mean skilled tankers can shoot you down from miles away, but with terrain masking and better visibility you can also often sneak up on them.. only that it lacks the weapons to really do anything significant against those tigers etc..

 

with AAA-cars and canon biplanes it is about the same, but a bit more balanced because the plane can actually do something, despite still beeing at the disadvantage. I wonder if combining it with a mission, where the escort task would fall on the ground side.. like escorting a convoy or trains would kind of balance this into the fun zone?

 

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

What were the AI set to in that clip?

[Monostripezebra]

23 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

What were the AI set to in that clip?

 

the normal quickmission ai.. it is a bit hit and miss..sometimes deadly, sometimes dumb

[Monostripezebra]

I am really still thinking about player driven AAA and WW1.. I feel like that could be one step to nerv the ultra-low-altitude attacks, which overall kinda hamper the WW1 feel (at least for me) online.. but meanwhile I just look at what mobile AAA actually was there in WW1.

 

Never heard of the "Überlandwagen" before.. but it certainly looks party-bus-like.

 

[ZachariasX]

1 hour ago, Monostripezebra said:

Never heard of the "Überlandwagen" before.. but it certainly looks party-bus-like.

I‘m certain it downed aircaft by making them land nearby for curious pilots cloud walk up tp the crew what the heck this installation was all about.

[Angry_Kitten]

machine gun nests in ROF sucked, 

[J5_Adam]

An old sim called Warbirds/Dawn Of Aces/Flyboys had machine gun nest you could man and ships with guns you could man as well as vehicles. It broke up the monotony.

[=IRFC=Gascan]

3 hours ago, J5_Adam said:

An old sim called Warbirds/Dawn Of Aces/Flyboys had machine gun nest you could man and ships with guns you could man as well as vehicles. It broke up the monotony.

Tank Crew 1918! Wait, you said ships you could man? I think I need to pitch the Battle of Jutland to 1C....

[Monostripezebra]

13 hours ago, J5_Adam said:

An old sim called Warbirds/Dawn Of Aces/Flyboys had machine gun nest you could man and ships with guns you could man as well as vehicles. It broke up the monotony.

 

Ok, I know now that is a really silly idea.. but I always thought that the guns on the trains would be interesting to play, albeit pretty much on the losing side, always.. as trains can never hide nor evade nor anything, and have a bad field of fire.. but still better then AI which demolishes its own train thouroughly if you fly front or back of the train.

 

I also thought that the GAZ MG truck looks pretty gangster.. and maybe some biplane prohibition alcohol smuggler scenarios would be fun, so I clandestinely hope for the GAZ MM weaponz mod:

[J5_Adam]

14 hours ago, gascan said:

Tank Crew 1918! Wait, you said ships you could man? I think I need to pitch the Battle of Jutland to 1C....

ya you could drive the ships as well as man the guns on them

 

[Monostripezebra]

I was wondering, if maybe Shermans vs Halbies would be fun.. like 4 players in shermans have to make it from A to B and can defend themselves with their comanders MG.. while halbies with those light 50KG bombs try to prevent their travel... but it is really not easy to stop a tank with 50 kg

 

 

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

WW1 Tank Crew - Renault FT and British Mk IV vs German A7V maybe?

[Monostripezebra]

3 hours ago, NO.20_Krispy_Duck said:

WW1 Tank Crew - Renault FT and British Mk IV vs German A7V maybe?

 

While I like the idea, I would assume WW1 tank fights are just way to slow to be any comercial success.. albeit I feel like a FT-17 als collectors vehicle could make some sense, I mean they saw use in WW2  and are kind of the modern tanks forefather. But then again, everything is matter of matchup, if you have little to use it sensibly against, it remains kind of a collectors showpiece.

 

Overall my Idea is mainly just gameplay inspired, the setting does not really matter that much.. like from real (China to Gran Chaco) or fantasy settings, I would take any if it just was more fun!

I mean, games are a great way to learn a bit historic stuff, but in the end they have to provide fun.

 

And my theory is, that aircraft+tanks work better with slower and ordonance wise less powerfull aircraft. Like Biplanes. Or atleast 40mm Hurricanes.

 

I think that, because, if we are brutally honest, the server providers have a really hard time making gameplay mechanics fundamentally different to all that "Conflict Thunder" stlye things etc.. you have your flags, you have your tanks and go round in merry circles until an aircraft comes and takes you out with huge bomb. and then you go climbing into the best possible fighter and shoot the bomber, who then re-spawns as fighter and you are all air battle again until you see the game was won by those "die-a-million-time-and-just-rush-drive-to-flag-at-the-most-unlikely-routes-through-the-map-edges" people.

 

Aircraft are just more powerfull then the tanks and especially the later-war the planes get, the player AAA does not stand a chance against some P-38s with 6 large bombs and the ability to swoop down from out of reach and back up real quick. Competent bombers eat tanks and AAA for breakfast.. but as that gameplay is essentially not having "real" frontlines or coherent tank units, airplane gameplay is all: "looking for the needle in the haystack" searching for single tanks which stand out pretty well, the moment they fire.. so it all just a small arena circling instead of go-to-strike more historic gameplay which in turn favours fighters like the Yak9

 

better tankplay is kinda something that takes time.. and having slow more recce-orientated planes with less of a direct threat would emphasise positioning and reconessance etc. more, making teamplay stronger.

 

Also: Attacking tanks that can shoot you with their main guns in slow fragile biplanes really low is amazing fun and would definately uprate the player AAA vehicles imensely.

 

 

 

That beeing said, I also kinda wish there where more "hunt the leviathan" style mechanics.. like having a few guys in tigers that are chased by more players in much less powerfull machines.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Monostripezebra

[Angry_Kitten]

I posited ww1 tank fighting, got laughed at. 

 

But it really is the logical expansion, and then wed end up wtih    the war in finland

[Monostripezebra]

After my first GAZ-tests, i can safely say it is a lot more at home (and not OP.. just merely viable) in any slow-speed aircraft environment... And would probably be a lot more fun to use there.

 

It is kinda misplaced and obsolete in late WW2... I mean, I even drove out to a parachute drop zone, but when I engaged and hit a Ju-52 at 1.5Km.. the kill was stolen by a P-47 who dove in in seconds (but on the funny side was flamed by the Ju-52s gunner)