Russia's view on D-Day

[Mastermariner]

When you believe that propaganda and distortion of history is exclusively done by the opposition then you should know that you are truly a victim of it.

 

Master

[Finkeren]

When you believe that propaganda and distortion of history is exclusively done by the opposition then you should know that you are truly a victim of it.

 

Master

Exactly!

[DD_bongodriver]

You do have to feel sorry for the North Koreans.

[Frequent_Flyer]

True. The U.S. and Great Britain did contribute quite a bit, especially by sending logistical equipment of which the Red Army was in short supply. Yet, when a firefighter rescues someone from a burning building, you don't skip over his/her bravery and immediately start praising the company that made his/her SCBA-equipment, do you? 

Unfortunately, you seem misled regarding historical significance. The Russians lost more human lives because of Stalin's ignorance ( slaughtering your own military leadership out of paranoid delusions in the 1930's, imprisoning your engineering assets etc.) trusting Hitler, etc. , incompetent leadership, outdated and inefficient manufacturing practices, poor logistics right up till the end of the war. Keeping score by how many Russians perished vs. western allies is moronic.  The Luftwaffe lost more aircraft to the West vs. VVS  It must mean the West had a far greater impact than VVS toward the outcome. The object of war" is to make the other poor dumb bastard die for his country ".

 

The Russian's invaded Poland the same day the German's did 9-9-39 and it took them nearly 6 years to get to Berlin. They did not have to cross anything wider than a river. Nothing the Russians  contemplated during the war compares to D-Day .

[MiloMorai]

 

The Russian's invaded Poland the same day the German's did 9-9-39 and it took them nearly 6 years to get to Berlin. They did not have to cross anything wider than a river. Nothing the Russians  contemplated during the war compares to D-Day .

 

The Germans invaded Poland starting Sept 1 1939. The communists invaded Poland Sept 17 1939.

[Frequent_Flyer]

The Germans invaded Poland starting Sept 1 1939. The communists invaded Poland Sept 17 1939.

Communist Russian's

[taleks]

We respect allies and theirs commitment to victory.

Those, who died in war with our common enemy - nazis, are heroes for us as well.

There is nothing to add here.

 

As for Russia's estimation of D-Day operation for outcome of WWII, there are different opinions.

The most common is that operation had no significant impact on war outcome.

[DickDong]

We respect allies and theirs commitment to victory.

Those, who died in war with our common enemy - nazis, are heroes for us as well.

There is nothing to add here.

 

As for Russia's estimation of D-Day operation for outcome of WWII, there are different opinions.

The most common is that operation had no significant impact on war outcome.

Lol, very ignorant opinion, no significant impact really? Not geared at you Talek but the internet can open all their eyes to the scope of the war outside of mother Russia. Edited June 7, 2014 by jarhead2b

[Rjel]

Moving massive amounts of armaments, equipment, and men thousands of miles across the Atlantic just to prepare for the invasion defies belief. This while fighting another major war even many more thousands of miles away from home, and it had no sigificant effect on the war? Unbelievable and not a little slandering to the many hundreds of thousands of Allied citizens who contributed to the war effort.

[SYN_Mike77]

In the sense that without D-Day the Germans would still have lost the war, taleks is right.  It may have taken a couple of months longer though.  I'd be surprised if it took 6 months longer though.

[Mastermariner]

Lets listen to one sane voice

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdgnw-_H5Zo

 

And I hope the mods close this as it is its getting close to the usual mud throwing contest.

Master

[Rjel]

1944 and nobody bought newspapers? It was the primary news source then and well into at least the 1970s in this country. I can agree with the man that it would be nice if the current leaders of the wartime allied countries could again become united.

 

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I seriously doubt the former Soviet Union sang many praises of it former WWII Allies' contributions during the Cold War. At the very least the information about the war in the East was available in the U.S. (and I suspect in other Allied nations) if someone cared to look.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Rjel

[AX2]

We respect allies and theirs commitment to victory.

Those, who died in war with our common enemy - nazis, are heroes for us as well.

There is nothing to add here.

 

As for Russia's estimation of D-Day operation for outcome of WWII, there are different opinions.

The most common is that operation had no significant impact on war outcome.

The  significant impact on war outcome. was be B17 and its heavy fighter escort , the B17  bombing all germany  and the escort ruined the Nazi Luftwaffe , the B17 ruined the german  industry   and his civilian population, Also the RAF bombing the night .was indispensable in removing the moral .

The VVS face an enemy that was 70 percent weak.

 

Russia found a civilian population and industry slaughtered by the USAF and RAF.

 

The most common is that operation had no significant impact on war outcome ? ? ?

 

The  significant impact on war outcome. was B17 and its heavy fighter escort .

The B17  bombing at all germany  and the escort ruined the Nazi Luftwaffe , the B17 ruined the german  industry  and his civilian population for free.

 Also the RAF bombing at  the night at was indispensable in removing the  moral  at civilian population.

The VVS face an enemy that was 70 percent weak.

 

Russia found a civilian population and industry slaughtered by the USAF and RAF.

Close to the end of the war , one of the largest SS units was bombed by 1000 US and RAF  bombers   by 3 days each day  to slaughtered their resistance.

I think it's Teamwork   ,and  D - Day was the game over for the nazis . 

Edited June 7, 2014 by Mustang

[Finkeren]

Also the RAF bombing at the night at was indispensable in removing the moral at civilian population.

 

There is too much in your post to tackle at once, and this thread seems to be going sour anyway, but I feel I have to adress this, because it gets brought up so often.

 

The thing is, the morale of the civillian population was never broken. If it had been, the war would have ended earlier and more like WW1. And don't say it was the terror regime of the nazis that kept it all together until the end. Italy was under a similar opressive government, and it was overthrown the minute it became clear, that defeat was inevitable. Not so with Germany.

 

We can talk and analyse on the reasons the Germans clung to the nazi regime till the bitter end, but it's a fact that they did, despite the bombing campaigns which killed hundreds of thousands and left tens of millions homeless. If breaking the morale of the civillian population was the goal of the night bombing campaign, then it failed miserably.

 

Honestly, the way I see it, the goal of the night bombing campaign was always to destroy Germanys industrial capacity and infrastructure, and when you use imprecise, but safer night bombing as a strategi, that means destroying entire cities.

[silent_one]

Shut it down!

[mondog]

Perhaps Russia had already turned the tide of war......

but it was with the help of Hurricanes, Tomahawks, Spitfires, P-39's, Boston's, Jeeps, AAguns and probably lots more.

I think you'll find it was boots, trucks and spam. Those were the deciding items the US provided. Everything else was nice but no where near as important.

[mondog]

 

 

 

 

The most common is that operation had no significant impact on war outcome ? ? ?

 

The significant impact on war outcome. was B17 and its heavy fighter escort .

The B17 bombing at all germany and the escort ruined the Nazi Luftwaffe , the B17 ruined the german industry and his civilian population for free.

Also the RAF bombing at the night at was indispensable in removing the moral at civilian population.

The VVS face an enemy that was 70 percent weak.

 

Russia found a civilian population and industry slaughtered by the USAF and RAF.

Close to the end of the war , one of the largest SS units was bombed by 1000 US and RAF bombers by 3 days each day to slaughtered their resistance.

I think it's Teamwork ,and D - Day was the game over for the nazis .

There is just so much wrong with this. The bomber offensive, until fuel and rail yards were targeted didn't work very well. True there were some instances of ball bearing plants being hit which did have an impact but facts are facts and German was production only ever increased. At best it diverted a million or so men to home defence and diverted some production to AA guns but that did not affect tank or aircraft production.

 

The conclusion many reputable historians have come to is that had the western allies just gone after fuel from the start it would have had a greater impact, especially when you consider bomber command had the lions share of British resources and production for over 3 years and the loss rates were horrific.

[IVJG4-Knight]

There is too much in your post to tackle at once, and this thread seems to be going sour anyway, but I feel I have to adress this, because it gets brought up so often.

 

The thing is, the morale of the civillian population was never broken. If it had been, the war would have ended earlier and more like WW1. And don't say it was the terror regime of the nazis that kept it all together until the end. Italy was under a similar opressive government, and it was overthrown the minute it became clear, that defeat was inevitable. Not so with Germany.

 

We can talk and analyse on the reasons the Germans clung to the nazi regime till the bitter end, but it's a fact that they did, despite the bombing campaigns which killed hundreds of thousands and left tens of millions homeless. If breaking the morale of the civillian population was the goal of the night bombing campaign, then it failed miserably.

 

Honestly, the way I see it, the goal of the night bombing campaign was always to destroy Germanys industrial capacity and infrastructure, and when you use imprecise, but safer night bombing as a strategi, that means destroying entire cities.

 

Honestly the last paragraph is a semi-truth at best. 

There is a book by historian Jörg Friedrich (der brandt). In this book you can read how raids of 1000 bombers were conducted on cities with as little as 35000 inhabitants.cities with no military or any any other importance .

You can say the raid on Hamburg was justifiable because the there were U-boat facilities.

But the raid on Dresden was a not at all justified.The industrial facilities(wich were practicly untouched by bombs) were over the river from the center of the city. The purpose here was to burn alive as many civilians as possible to look good in front of stalin.

 

As i said b4 i'm glad the Allies won the war but there are some things they should not have done.

Edited June 7, 2014 by IVJG4-Knight

[DD_bongodriver]

Easy for us to say today sitting in our free world on our self righteous high horses.

[FlatSpinMan]

Could be interesting, but it's just going to end up offending someone due to our many different perspectives on the subject.

Locking.