The Case for "Operation Bagration"

[cripplehawk]

I feel that if we visit the eastern front once again. We should look at one of the most important events WW2.

We can call it the "Battle of Byelorussian" 

Why I believe this campaign should be done for the following reasons.

 

 

Number 1

This Battle basically destroyed Army Group Center the largest German Army Formation at the time.

The Soviets also enter Poland at the time.

I feel this is a VERY important event in WW2 because of these 2 things.

 

Number 2

We already have the German planes of this time. So we can basically focus on the Soviet birds

(Tupolev Tu-2,  IL-10, Lavochkin La-7 and Yak-9U etc)

 

Number 3

We can add Finland and Hungary as separate axis units.

 

Number 4

We can add follow ups The Battle of Tannenberg and the Battle of Poland and Finally the Battle of Berlin with minimum turn around time. Since we have the birds. We can just focus on the maps.

Just my thought

[BraveSirRobin]

13 minutes ago, cripplehawk said:

Number 4

We can add follow ups The Battle of Tannenberg and the Battle of Poland and Finally the Battle of Berlin with minimum turn around time. Since we have the birds. We can just focus on the maps.

Just my thought

 

That probably isn't going to happen.  Maps are expensive to make.  They need to sell them as a package with aircraft to make it worth it.

[PatrickAWlson]

Going to need German planes to fit the sales model.

FW190 A9

Me109 G10

Ju188 or Do217

Ju87B ... OK, I'm reaching.  Not used for Bagration but fills in a gap for Moscow

FW 189 and add artillery spotting and recon missions

 

If we are operating outside of the sales model then I would go with these three Germans and do 7 Russian planes.  

FW190 A9

Me109 G10

Ju188 or Do217

 

IMHO Il2 1944 (arrow wing) has to be there.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by PatrickAWlson

[Chief_Mouser]

 

On 3/8/2021 at 3:24 AM, cripplehawk said:

I feel that if we visit the eastern front once again. We should look at one of the most important events WW2.

We can call it the "Battle of Byelorussian" 

Why I believe this campaign should be done for the following reasons.

 

 

Number 1

This Battle basically destroyed Army Group Center the largest German Army Formation at the time.

The Soviets also enter Poland at the time.

I feel this is a VERY important event in WW2 because of these 2 things.

 

Number 2

We already have the German planes of this time. So we can basically focus on the Soviet birds

(Tupolev Tu-2,  IL-10, Lavochkin La-7 and Yak-9U etc)

 

Number 3

We can add Finland and Hungary as separate axis units.

 

Number 4

We can add follow ups The Battle of Tannenberg and the Battle of Poland and Finally the Battle of Berlin with minimum turn around time. Since we have the birds. We can just focus on the maps.

Just my thought

 

There isn't really a case for Bagration:

• You can't name a suitable Luftwaffe planeset; although Pat has provided a couple that could go in there.
• The battle was incredibly one-sided in terms of manpower and equipment.
• What does it matter if the Soviets enter Poland? You can't see the difference on a BoX map. If you want to invade Poland then the beginning of Barbarossa would be my choice.

 

If there is to be another Lutwaffe/VVS scenario then I would much rather have the Crimea. Big time period, 1941-44, so much wider choice of aircraft to add to the pack. Both sides get to attack. More overall balance in the aircraft numbers. Sea, thus ships (need more ships) and please, let's finally have torpedoes!

[FTC_Kongoo]

The problem with Bagration is that it encompasses such a large territory. Impossible to make a map from it. I think if bagration were to be chosen they´d have to make a 2 or 3 smaller maps covering the important battles, such as the minsk offensive.

 

Also, the battles in bagration happened mostly during summer 1944. That means the la-7 would be left out as they were introduced in september 1944 (from a historical campaign)

planes ;

 

new VVS planes for the scenario :  Yak 3.  Tu-2,  IL-10,

LW : written above.

 

[CountZero]

Bagration is to far to east to have late war german airplanes we are missing, and to early to have russian squadrons with Il-10 and Yak-9U i think.

Edited March 11, 2021 by CountZero

[Enceladus828]

Here's my idea.

How about combining Operation Barbarossa with Battle of Bagration? You would have a 1941 and 1943 planeset and map. Aircraft from Battle of Moscow and Battle of Kuban could also be used and vice versa.

 

Planeset

Axis:

He-111H-2

Ju-87B-2

Fw-190A-7

Hs-123

Collector

Macchi MC.200 or Fw-189

 

Allied:

Yak-1 (early)

I-153

Tu-2S

SB-2

Collector

IL-4 or P-40C

[Chief_Mouser]

Good planeset.  ? 

Not enough fighters to tempt the Hartmanns and Kozhedubs though, I suspect, so probably a commercial no-no. Shame.

[DBFlyguy]

2 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Here's my idea.

How about combining Operation Barbarossa with Battle of Bagration? You would have a 1941 and 1943 planeset and map. Aircraft from Battle of Moscow and Battle of Kuban could also be used and vice versa.

 

Planeset

Axis:

He-111H-2

Ju-87B-2

Fw-190A-7

Hs-123

Collector

Macchi MC.200 or Fw-189

 

Allied:

Yak-1 (early)

I-153

Tu-2S

SB-2

Collector

IL-4 or P-40C

Solid list! This sim is in dire need of more bomber, recon and transport type aircraft. 

[FTC_Kongoo]

Would need a yak 3. Maybe as a collector.

[Diggun]

On 3/10/2021 at 7:15 PM, 216th_Cat said:

The battle was incredibly one-sided in terms of manpower and equipment.

Unlike, say, Normandy?

[Cybermat47]

On 3/12/2021 at 4:53 AM, Enceladus said:

Macchi MC.200

 

I'm absolutely on board with the C.200. The one Giuseppe Biron flew in the USSR looks quite nice to me: 

 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

On 3/8/2021 at 4:24 AM, cripplehawk said:

I feel that if we visit the eastern front once again. We should look at one of the most important events WW2.

We can call it the "Battle of Byelorussian" 

Why I believe this campaign should be done for the following reasons.

 

 

Number 1

This Battle basically destroyed Army Group Center the largest German Army Formation at the time.

The Soviets also enter Poland at the time.

I feel this is a VERY important event in WW2 because of these 2 things.

 

Number 2

We already have the German planes of this time. So we can basically focus on the Soviet birds

(Tupolev Tu-2,  IL-10, Lavochkin La-7 and Yak-9U etc)

 

Number 3

We can add Finland and Hungary as separate axis units.

 

Number 4

We can add follow ups The Battle of Tannenberg and the Battle of Poland and Finally the Battle of Berlin with minimum turn around time. Since we have the birds. We can just focus on the maps.

Just my thought

 

Lets not derail this thread!

Il-2 so far has relesed an Eastern Front Trilogy and my Guess is that they will make a Western Trilogy as well, concluding likely with 1943 Malta/Sicily/Tunisia and some Italian Planes against the RAF with LF Mk.V and early Mk.IXs.

 

 

Bagration has an impractically massive Scope and timewise doesn't really work all that well for Planesets, it's just too early.

 

Vistula-Oder is essentially good for late 44 to early 45, is similar in size to Bodenplatte, features the late War Props, and since there is no late war Eastern Plane Set some redundant Aircraft are necessary.

 

Swept Wing Il-2 vs. Ju-87D-5/G-2

Yak-9U vs. Bf109G-10

Yak-3 vs. Bf109G-14AS/M

La-7 vs. Fw190A-9

Tu-2 vs. Me-410B

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[Robli]

On 3/8/2021 at 5:24 AM, cripplehawk said:

Number 3

We can add Finland and Hungary as separate axis units.

 

Number 4

We can add follow ups The Battle of Tannenberg

 

Speaking of which, wasn't there a team working on Leningrad or Gulf of Finland map? 

Edit: Number 4 means probably Battle or Tannenberg Line, fought in Estonia in 1944, as the other Battle of Tannenberg was in WWI.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Robli