Questions on using 109/190 in multiplayer successfully

[alexglenorchy]

Hi all,

 

I wondered if anyone who enjoys the above aircraft might give some tips on flying them successfully on multiplayer? I also just want to clarify this is not a complaint post, as I'm concerned it might sound like that at some point. I'd just like to understand some of the aspects that are apparently these aircraft's strong points - more specifically how they are actually achieved/applied. I seem to be able to apply them in singleplayer but the tactics I thought I had a good understanding of haven't transferred across.

 

I've gone on to multiplayer (mainly Finnish) for the first time over the past couple of weeks. Up until now I'd been doing singleplayer with dense and hardest difficulty, expert, all that jazz. Had a lot of fun but started feeling like it was seal clubbing the AI and the kill counts felt unrealistic quite quickly. So I tried multiplayer - much more of a challenge! I like to fly lots of different aircraft so swap between the sides every time I login, though I try to join the side with less players most of the time. A fun challenge its mostly been, although (hence this thread) I must say I found flying German fighters in MP environment pretty frustrating. Flying on VVS or allies I can at times come away with a couple of victories and get back and land. Or at least get a few kills when I play a session. However I'm really struggling with Germany.

 

I get that you have to fly them differently but I'm unsure on how their strengths actually work. I find if I have a massive altitude advantage its problematic actually getting on target, especially with the 109 which handles atrociously at speed. Even with the 190, I only get a victory if the opponent doesn't notice me. As soon as they do, you can't get a shot off as you're too fast. You can't then turn back as you bleed so much energy. I even found with the 109 today that I went straight through a group of 3 migs/yaks shooting at a 110, but continued through. They then all caught me up which I don't understand - I was a combat power in the F4, is it only faster at emergency? 

 

On the plus side I managed to get some good yo-yos on a yak today and managed to outclimb gently causing them to stall a coupe of times. I then found problems getting back on target and only managed a snap shot. Then someone finished them off and I got the assist. So positives - however I got jumped, which leads me on to my last question.

 

In LW fighters do you basically have little options if VVS/allies get on your tails? I appreciate ideally you shouldn't get in that situation, however with VVS/allies I've managed to outmaneuver LW fighters if they get on my tail (even got a 190 in the A20 tonight which I thought was hilarious) but I can't replicate this flying LW.

 

To conclude my experience is the following - You can only succeed with a clear energy advantage from the get go. Generally speaking you can only get snap shots, or shots on unmoving straight and level opponents. If you're caught in a lower energy state you have no options (whilst I feel with allies you can just move more/get them to overshoot).

 

Apologies for the long swathe of text if anyone actually reads it. Any advice with specifics would be nice (i.e. approaching hotspots mainly at xx altitude advantage or no go, climb vertical then level off or climb gently at xx kph, when you use emergency).

 

All best

[LR.CrimsonLion]

Youtube.  IL2 + whatever aircraft your looking for info on.  Lots of great stuff.  Generally, each aircraft has unique ways to fly and you'll be able to get a lot of content that helps with MP.  You should be able to easily find content that shows how to fly and how to fight.

 

Check these out...

Sheriff's Sim Shack

I Fly Central

opcode

 

[PatrickAWlson]

The enemy not noticing you is pretty important.  You need me flying on the server - I'm pretty much guaranteed not to notice you. 

 

Seriously though, that is how some of the best pilots ever did it.  Zoom in at speed, hit the target, fly off before the rest can gather their wits.  If you are coming in with a head of steam there is no way that you are going to hang with a guy making a cruising speed break.  That's OK.  Zoom for altitude, reassess, and either try again or fly off.

 

In LW fighters it is best to have speed and keep it.  If you are low and slow in a 190 then you are not a happy camper.  Scissors is probably best.  In a 109 you might be able to turn for a bit, maybe enough to shake them, put the throttle forward and start gently climbing away.

 

The 190 and 109 are entirely different beasts with completely different strengths and weaknesses.  In the 190 fast slashing attacks are best.  Keep your speed.  Maneuver only slightly to adjust your shot.  Don't be afraid to jam the trigger as you have lots of guns and ammo.  Putting up a wall of lead and letting him fly through it is an option.  You don't have to be a precision shot.  With the 109 you can stay in the fight longer using vertical maneuvers.  Keep zooming and coming back.  The 109 can really climb well so if you retain enough speed you should be able to get your altitude advantage back.

 

As for only succeeding with an energy advantage.  That's how it really was.  Real pilots actually risking their lives would generally decline combat if altitude and/or numbers were not favorable.  Those who did not died young.  Against AI you can get away with all sorts of stuff.  Against real people who have also studied tactics life is more difficult. The great thing about the German planes is that they allow you to create that initial advantage much more easily than Russian planes.  After that it is up to you not to lose it.

[Gambit21]

42 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

The enemy not noticing you is pretty important. 

 

This.

 

Remember that aircraft don't necessarily out turn one another, more often they 'out conserve energy' one another.

One of the best pieces of advice I can give you is, fly like your ACTUAL LIFE is on the line to the extent that you can. The more that you do, the better

decisions you'll make. You'll prioritize getting back to base safely rather than an ego-boosting kill even if it means taking a silly risk.

This is how I bumped my kill ratio way up back in the day...by caring less about kills, I got more kills.

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

For 109:

 

Its trump card is climb rate. It outclimbs any contemporary aircraft. If you are on the same energy, or at even slight disadvantage, and the opponent is far enough that he can't shoot, you can just start climbing and soon you will be much higher than your opponent. After that, you can just dive and shoot repeatedly untily you kill the opponent. No other plane can combat this tactic which makes 109 virtually unbeatable in 1 vs 1 encounters, even in 1945 plane set (I really hope that Spit XIV will end this nonsense lol) . It is best to climb in a spiral so that you can observe and control your opponent. You can practice this tactic offline against bots, and then proceed online. Just start climbing after merging with a bot instead of outturning them.

 

For 190:

It does not climb as well as 109, but it is usually much faster than contemporary VVS fighters, except with La-5FN and only at low altitudes. The main tactic is to keep speed, shoot (with deflection if the opoonent sees you), and run without engaging. It is best to have a buddy to clean your 6 after you run. 190 is the king of team fights, a pack of coordinated 190 pilots is unbeatable because they can disengage quickly and let their teammates counterattack. It also rolls very quickly, which boosts your ability to do defensive maneuvers like scissors.

 

For both:
 

- Since you can't hang at opponents' 6 forever, you have to learn to shoot with high deflection angles. Learning it is a very frustrating and long process, but it comes with time. Just fly on Berloga until you get good at it.

- If you need to escape and have altitude, you can just dive and reach speeds above 800 kph. VVS planes fall apart at 750 at most, while Germans are fine.

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by =TH=mincer

[Aurora_Stealth]

Some pretty sage advice right there.

 

Flying the Luftwaffe fighters does require a different play style which takes time to learn and familiarise with. Also it can be a case that if you've tweaked your sensitivity and control settings to other aircraft, this may require you adapt them again to "feel at home" with the different control harmony...

 

One (not so little) card under the sleeve of the Bf 109 which is fairly unique is its very effective (despite small) rudder. You can apply a great deal of leverage on the rudder which can give deflection of something like 40 degrees or so across its lateral axis. Additionally, it can be used to spray a target left to right at very close range.

 

With the '109 if you can learn to coordinate the rudder into your maneuvers then you can often speed them up slightly, whether it be doing a roll or pushing hard rudder to get yourself inside of another aircraft's maneuvers (which can be done quite aggressively). This will help position you better for deflection shots.

 

Also, because the stall is very mild while maneuvering in the '109 and easily recoverable you can afford to be more aggressive when you do have superior energy. This can also be done to a degree at relatively slow speeds and at extremely low altitudes provided you're not crass about it.

 

Hard rudder can also be used evasively to put on a harsh side-slip at a time of your choosing; for example when another fighter is closing on you - which can be one of the most frustrating moves for an Allied pilot when they are closing in - as they usually have a wing mounted armament and more limited rudder movement which can make last minute gunnery adjustments difficult.

 

Anyway, good luck and happy hunting.

[alexglenorchy]

Thanks all. Much appreciated 

[69TD_Hajo_Garlic]

I prefer flying ground attack/ fighter bombers as pure fighters are boring to me but keep your speed up at all times , attack aircraft which are at lower energy states, unaware, or preoccupied maneuvering or attacking other targets. Do not climb steeply in combat zones or slow down when you do not have to. This works well in all fighters. I only consciously break these rules in 2 of my favorites, the hurricane and i16 (because they are slower than the competition). After you make an attack reset, get awareness and plan your next move. Some allied types with more maneuverability allow more aggression but you can be successful with the powerful lw armaments by not over committing. If you screw up and find allies behind you, the Hartmann escape can work if they are very close and have altitude, otherwise you should be able to outdive and out speed most of the opposition. Bring the fight over friendly aaa or to friendly aircraft. The 190 also turns very well at high speed, the 109 at very slow. I prefer to maneuver as little as I need to in order to keep my energy high. The 190s roll rate is also an excellent asset to scissor and bank. The posters above gave good advice, but a common beginner mistake I see and made is to climb too much in lw planes, you cant outclimb .50s and 20mms! 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Hajo_Garlic

[Mollotin]

Have u tried to adjust the vertical stabiliser in 109. i can tell u it makes quite difference if u adjust it to be less nose heavy. Default setting in game is 2. this makes the 109 very heavy feeling in high speeds. adjust the stabiliser to 1 to 0 setting (70%-50% in tech chat (this depends on model tho)) 

it will be easier to follow yaks and la 5s in turns.

 

edit: as others have mentioned good tips for high speed attacks ill give couple tips for slower speed turn fight. speeds around 300kph to 500kph, If the enemy turns tight u can pull ur throttle back and ull be able to turn tighter as u are going slower. if u cant hit him just accelerate till u are near enough again.  if he is in gun range he is not gonna escape even if u momentarily cut ur throttle.  i feel la5s are easy to follow in turns. yaks are more agile and they use their quick to deploy flaps often.  try to finish fight fast and use ur throttle a lot if needed. try to avoid multiple circles tho as yaks will eventually be at ur 6 after couple full 360s.

 

and last: 109 might be faster than yak in emergency power ( no idea which one accelerates faster, this is actually more important than top speed most of the time) but u only got that for 1 minute and if u are in gun range u are not going to make enough separation before he shoots u down. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Mollotin