Why Does This Happen? SOLVED!

[Beebop]

Usually I have no problems with trains.  However in Tulapse on the Kuban map there is a rail line that runs into the mountains.  I have a train running to the first town.  It comes into town normally but when it stops, look what happens...

Edited February 3, 2021 by Beebop

[Cynic_Al]

Having reached its stopping point, is the train supposed to reverse direction?  If so, is there room for the carriages behind the locomotive when it swings around?

[Beebop]

No.  there is only one waypoint, the destination.  I have this as a Group and never experienced this before.  Every other time when the train stops the engine is pointing the correct direction. 

It's not a huge deal as about the only person who would notice it is if someone landed in the adjacent field.

Now I don't see how this would correlate but I am using  Winter Kuban Mod for this mission.  Any chance that has anything to do with it?  I don't see how but I've had strange things happen with other mods, usually because they were out of date or an update "broke" them. This map repaint is LF_Gallahad's Winter Kuban mod.  I have no other game issues using it.

 

ADDENDUM:  I just realized that the first time I ran the train to determine where to place the last waypoint so it would stop there I didn't have the logic applied where the trains arrival makes the plane takeoff.  It arrived and stopped facing the correct way.  Could it be this happened because it passed through a Check Zone?

Edited February 3, 2021 by Beebop

[Beebop]

SOLVED!

There's a kink in the track:

[jollyjack]

Only on one Kuban map, or on all maps? Which sector?, Maybe report it to Rapidus to get it fixed LoL.

[Beebop]

Don't know if it's all maps. 

The kink is just a short little jog to the left (heading inland) for no obvious reason.

When I first ran the mission the train overshot and as long as the engine doesn't stop on the kink it remains forward.  Only when it stops does it flip.

[No_85_Gramps]

I recently had a similar problem with trains leaving the rails, turned out that the waypoint causing the problem was not centered between the rails. Also, maybe move the waypoint back a little as I'm not sure it stops exactly on the waypoint.

[Beebop]

2 hours ago, No_85_Gramps said:

Also, maybe move the waypoint back a little as I'm not sure it stops exactly on the waypoint.

No it doesn't.

In JimTM's manual he lists how far back the final waypoint needs to be before the trains kinetic energy lets it  stop.

Chapter 5, Making a Train Follow a Route, pg. 70;

Train Speed (kph) Distance of Waypoint Before Stop Point (m)
20 kph - 5m
30 kph - 37 m 
40 kph - 74m
50kph - 113m
60-80kpn - 142m
For example, if the train speed is 40 kph, place the waypoint 74 m before the stop point you want.

 

That's how I solved the problem, I pushed back the waypoint and readjusted the placement of the station and water tower and the engine stopped just before the kink..

[No_85_Gramps]

Thanks Beebop, forgot about that info being in the manual.

[Cynic_Al]

10 hours ago, Beebop said:

 

In JimTM's manual he lists how far back the final waypoint needs to be before the trains kinetic energy lets it  stop.

 

 

On a closely-related issue, the top speed of the G8 locomotive should be 55 km/h, whereas in this game it's 110.  For a realistic train speed I'd set the waypoints no higher than 45 km/h

[IckyATLAS]

A comment here on the fact that the trains when they are activated (by the game at start or by an Activate or Spawn MCU) if they are long and the railtrack is slightly curved or not very straight then the train will always start perfectly straight and so he will appear as having partially derailed. The Loco and tender will be always on track and maybe one car or more depending on the curvature of the track and length of train.

This will appear everywhere on the map. To avoid this you have to put your train at start in a perfectly straight piece of track a little longer than the train.

There is also a problem with very long trains say more than 9 railcars where the last cars will be offtrack whatever the straightness of the track.

 

To avoid this not very esthetic situation (which appears only if the train is not foreseen to start immediately to move after activation and will just stay put for some time), I do the following thing.

When the train appears on the map I make him move about two meters. The simple fact of activating a waypoint which will have the train start to move will solve the issue and the train and all the cars will become perfectly positioned on the railtrack. Two meters is nothing and you will see nothing, but the train will be perfectly positioned and aligned with the tracks even in a big curve.

 

So I have a unique waypoint (which is self standing and not connected to the other waypoints for the normal travel of the train) situated at about two meters from the Loco center icon and which gets activated immediately after the train appears on the map by whatever method.

 

 

[Beebop]

I n t e r e s t i n g!

Thanks for that tip. 

Added to the shelves of my Maddox Memorial ME Library located at the corner of 1st and C Streets.

?

[Beebop]

4 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

On a closely-related issue, the top speed of the G8 locomotive should be 55 km/h, whereas in this game it's 110.  For a realistic train speed I'd set the waypoints no higher than 45 km/h

Good to know.  Thanks for that.  Do you know the top speed for the other loco?  It would be about the same I would suspect given the technology of the day.

 

But....when making a "Snow Piercer" mission, speed is everything.  (and just try hitting a train moving at 80 kph...? )

?

Edited February 11, 2021 by Beebop

[Cynic_Al]

7 hours ago, Beebop said:

Good to know.  Thanks for that.  Do you know the top speed for the other loco?  It would be about the same I would suspect given the technology of the day.

 

 

Timing over 1km, it's about 2 km/h faster running light and does close to 78 km/h pulling 10 vehicles.

[GAE_YaniBarto]

I have a problem with the trains. when I fly over them they don't shoot me, and I change places and it's the same
What could be the problem?

[Beebop]

First, how many waypoints are you using for your train(s)?  If only the one, what priority is it set to?  If "High" AI will only go to that waypoint and won't try and defend themselves.  Try "Medium".  That works best for me.  If set to "Low" the train may even stop if attacked.  (I know vehicles do).  If you have multiple waypoints check if any near the area you attack the train in is set to "High".

 

Sometimes the trains will ignore you when you don't shoot at them.  I think the AI routine for trains is only fire if fired upon.  I have experienced what you describe and sometimes even while attacking they don't shoot back....right away.  As I egress from the attack they fill me full of lead.  OUCH!!

[IckyATLAS]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:27 PM, Beebop said:

First, how many waypoints are you using for your train(s)?  If only the one, what priority is it set to?  If "High" AI will only go to that waypoint and won't try and defend themselves.  Try "Medium".  That works best for me.  If set to "Low" the train may even stop if attacked.  (I know vehicles do).  If you have multiple waypoints check if any near the area you attack the train in is set to "High".

 

Sometimes the trains will ignore you when you don't shoot at them.  I think the AI routine for trains is only fire if fired upon.  I have experienced what you describe and sometimes even while attacking they don't shoot back....right away.  As I egress from the attack they fill me full of lead.  OUCH!!

This situation where gunners on trains, on vehicles, on ships and even AAA fixed guns shoot you only after you have overflown them is typical of the medium priority parameter. If you want them to shoot as soon as they can you have to be in Low priority mode. For the fixed AAA where you have no waypoints use the Force Complete MCU with priority set to Low. The best way is to link all the AAA units to a leader entity (I use an invulnerable fake vehicle) and then you can just send commands (like Deactivate, Activate, Force Complete etc.) to him that will impact all the entities as long as they are not destroyed.

 

[Beebop]

Good info sir.  Thanks.