Ideas for more tank modifications with the skirts for the current tanks

[SCG_judgedeath3]

This is mostly aimed towards the game developers and people in charge:

Here are some ideas that would add a lot to the game and should be quite easy to add to the game with the current models:
1: To make the skirts choseable for the turret only or the hull only on the panzer IV and panzer III, like these pictures:
Turret only:

Hull only:


2: To make it possible to scrap off the skirts against trees or buildings, as many tank commanders found out in normandy and in forested areas: the skirts easily fell off if you werent careful.

3: To add the ostketten tracks for the panzer III and IV tanks, the extra wide tracks they put on the tanks so they were less likely to get stuck in snow, a cool feauture according to a simulator player like myself would be that you can drive better with these tracks in the winter, and if you drive out in deep snow with the normal tracks: you risk stranding your tank.

Edited January 25, 2021 by SCG_judgedeath3

[No_Face]

What is the interest of having skirts only on the hull or only on the turret? Better visibility?

(Weight gain ? But on a tank of several tons, is it really significant?)

[SCG_judgedeath3]

12 minutes ago, No_Face said:

What is the interest of having skirts only on the hull or only on the turret? Better visibility?

(Weight gain ? But on a tank of several tons, is it really significant?)

All of it plus that having the option gives more immersion and options but besides some units lacking enough skirts to have all tanks have them, here are some reasons:
Removal of the turret skirts: Can easier bail out of the tank, and also opening the hatch to see out, with the skirts on, the loader and gunner cant see much.
Having it gives you 5mm extra armour to the weakest part of the tank: the turret.

Only having it on the hull: protection to the flank of the tank and extra protection to the tracks when artillery hits nearby or HEAT shells, removing it: less weight and yes it do gives a slightly better handling of the tank, especielly on soft ground.

Edited January 25, 2021 by SCG_judgedeath3

[LachenKrieg]

I agree, just like having more skins with greater variation in unit numbers, being able to switch up the way you outfit tanks on the battle field will help increase immersion in both single and multi-player missions.

[Wilfried_Richter]

I don't recall ever seeing photos of panzers only with hull skirts, but many exist only with turret skirts, as the hull plates got ripped off. They were also removed for rail travel, perhaps sometimes they just didn't have time to re-fit them!

 

Totally agree about ostketten/winterketten. Not sure which name came first but later type track was much more sturdy. 

 

Hopefully lots of nice details will be added in the future. 

[Noisemaker]

I'd like to see foliage camouflage as an option.

[I.JG3_CDRSEABEE]

On 1/25/2021 at 3:47 PM, LachenKrieg said:

I agree, just like having more skins with greater variation in unit numbers, being able to switch up the way you outfit tanks on the battle field will help increase immersion in both single and multi-player missions.

Maybe tanks can get the new decal thing after the planes get it

[JG27_Steini]

See the skin sections on the forums. There are skins that make the you feel you have a new tank (skirt).

 

 

[LachenKrieg]

3 hours ago, CDRSEABEE said:

Maybe tanks can get the new decal thing after the planes get it

I thought that was already announced?

[I.JG3_CDRSEABEE]

1 hour ago, LachenKrieg said:

I thought that was already announced?

Was it for tanks too? I thought I read planes.

[LachenKrieg]

3 hours ago, CDRSEABEE said:

Was it for tanks too? I thought I read planes.

You might be right, I remember Jason mentioning around the time of the announcement that it was an effort that came about from the work with tanks?, But maybe your right, the fact that they got the idea from working on tanks doesn't necessarily mean that we will see it on tanks.

[69th_chuter]

The hull skirts were just hanging on "hooks" and could be removed.  The turret skirts were welded on.

[SCG_Neun]

Does the game factor in the weight reduction on tanks with or without skirts?  It would be neat if it did.

[LachenKrieg]

1 hour ago, SCG_Neun said:

Does the game factor in the weight reduction on tanks with or without skirts?  It would be neat if it did.

Added to this could be the weight of fuel and ammunition as it gets used. I know weight is an important factor and part of the flight model for planes on other sim platforms, and we do have weight included with the in-game specs for tanks, but is the effect of weight modeled to affect ground pressure and the power to weight ratio? We definitely wouldn't see the amount of affect we see with planes, but the difference in off-road speed between a fully loaded PzIV with side skirts, and one without side skirts that has used all its ammo should be visible even if it is only a couple of km/hr.  

[ShampooX]

If I’m not mistaken you can go to the Modifications tab where you are planning your ammo load out and also choose to remove skirts.  I also know there are a couple free custom skins in that thread that offer skirtless PZ4’s. Panthers too. 

[LachenKrieg]

14 hours ago, SCG_Neun said:

Does the game factor in the weight reduction on tanks with or without skirts?  It would be neat if it did.

It doesn't look like changes in weight have any affect on the power:weight ratio, or resistance related to ground pressure. I tried to duplicate multiple runs over various types of terrain using a fully loaded Panther with side skirts compared to one without the skirts, all of it's ammo spent (Main gun/MG), and only 15% fuel (110l). Couldn't detect any difference in off-road speed/RPM, although it is almost impossible to follow the exact same track with each run.

 

I don't know if it is a bug or not, but the fuel gauge still shows full even when I set fuel to 15%, so this might not be modeled at all. Anyway, a rough guesstimate for 79 rounds of Pzgr. 39/42 + 5100 rounds of MG34 + 610l of fuel + side skirts should be well in excess of 3000lbs, or close to 1.5 tonnes. It seems reasonable to imagine that this would have an effect when traversing at least soft terrain, or going up hills.

 

The current Tank Crew models have what I believe is the most detailed power train/suspension/running gear of any WWII tank simulator on the market today. And I know that there is some modeling done to account for differences in speed/RPM when driving on a road as compared to an open field for example, but it would be cool to see the effect of changing weight also included in the Tank Crew models.

 

 

5 hours ago, 11thPanzer_Pete said:

If I’m not mistaken you can go to the Modifications tab where you are planning your ammo load out and also choose to remove skirts.  I also know there are a couple free custom skins in that thread that offer skirtless PZ4’s. Panthers too. 

I think the OP wanted to be able to have the choice of just the hull, turret or both. I am guessing because if you have skirts just on the hull, you would still be able to use the turret hatches.

[SCG_judgedeath3]

55 minutes ago, LachenKrieg said:

I think the OP wanted to be able to have the choice of just the hull, turret or both. I am guessing because if you have skirts just on the hull, you would still be able to use the turret hatches.

Correct and no mod allows for that.

[LachenKrieg]

I just did the same exercise in the IV G, and it seems more likely that weight change is not modeled yet in terms of power:Weight, and ground pressure. In the case of the IV G, the effect should be more noticeable because the weight difference between a loaded and an empty IV G is close to the same as it was in the Panther scenario, but the tracks are much more narrow compared to the Panther's.

 

And again, it looks like the fuel gauge is not modeled properly either. Setting it to its lowest setting (11% - 50l) The fuel gauge shows full in-game, and appears to reduce at the same rate as you drive compared to a fully fueled IV G.

 

Considering all the attention and detail that has been put into the power train/suspension/running gear/terrain roughness, modeling weight differences in Tank Crew would be another major advance to the SIM, and it would add real consequence to the decisions of how you load out your vehicle before battle. Removing the spaced armor and reducing the amount of fuel and ammunition your are carrying would help to slightly increase mobility, but would also limit range, protection, and fighting capability. This would add to the ways mission designers could affect balance by incorporating low supply scenarios for example.