AX2 Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) This show a BF 109 - with no rolls at dive in negative G´s , also a big elevator authority in just 1,5 seconds. Edited June 5, 2014 by Mustang
BraveSirRobin Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 This show no problems with rolls at dive , also a big elevator authority in just 1,5 seconds. There is absolutely no useful information in that series of photographs.
AX2 Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) You can look the maneuver at video Minute 1 : 13 to 1 : 18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4JvotBOvnM Edited June 5, 2014 by Mustang
BraveSirRobin Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 The video is just as useless as the photographs.
AX2 Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) I can not a maneuver like that in the game , in only 1.5 seconds. if I try that I do a roll like my old video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMYmCrKhcl8 . Edited June 5, 2014 by Mustang
LBR=H-Ostermann Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 You have to watch Pips hand plane lesson in seconds 15-17 to understand the fullness of the pictures above.
Anw.StG2_Tyke Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 The video is just as useless as the photographs. Why? The video shows a climp and then a dive in app. 1.5 seconds. Try that with an 109 in game. It won't work like that. This negative roll the 109 does when diving with it, is not normal or realistic at all. That has nothing to do with BIAS some people claim. This is just plain wrong. 1
BraveSirRobin Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 I can not a maneuver like that in the game , in only 1.5 seconds. if I try that I do a roll like my old video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMYmCrKhcl8 . There is no way to actually know what that aircraft is doing. It might be flying straight and level.
AX2 Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) The plane at in 0.8 seconds change the angle of climb to horizontal flight. 0.6 seconds later change to dive angle is a Fact. This confirms that the flight model developers is almost good about the fast pitch responses at BF 109 elevators. But the plane must NOT do a Roll in fast dive a negative G´s. Edited June 5, 2014 by Zak
BraveSirRobin Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 The plane at in 0.8 seconds change the angle of climb to horizontal flight. 0.6 seconds later change to dive angle is a Fact. This confirms that the flight model developers is almost good about the fast pitch resposes. But the plane must no do a Roll in fast dive a negative G´s. The video is useless. You know absolutely nothing about the energy state of the aircraft and you know absolutely nothing about the aircraft shooting the video. It is completely useless.
Tab Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 you dont even have the horizon line, how do you determine plane's orientation? Im not even asking about Gs
AX2 Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) you dont even have the horizon line, how do you determine plane's orientation? Im not even asking about Gs The change between the angle of climb and horizontal flight was made 0.8 seconds. The position and perspective of the camera are the same , 0.8 seconds is a very short time for big changes on view. About the energy state, I can not do that maneuver in the game at any state of energy, without do a roll. If the elevators are in lightened state, I will do a roll , like at my video at heavy nose down push, If the elevators are in heavy state, I can not do the maneuver. At the end I can not do the maneuver at game at any energy state. Edited June 5, 2014 by Mustang
Anw.StG2_Tyke Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 you dont even have the horizon line, how do you determine plane's orientation? Im not even asking about Gs You simply don't need a horizon line, because somehow you can see the difference between camera angle and plane position on the one side and a flying plane maneuver on the other. Furthermore the camera didn't changed because there were no difference in lighting and so on. When we take in count that this is a old movie with old cameras you would see a huge difference when the camera moved or changed because of lightning and so on. The camera is fixatet at one point in this case. 1
DD_bongodriver Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 Mustang, chill man, you are not the only one that has raised the exact same oppinions on this subject, they have been beaten to death and the devs 'are' aware of the concerns, they are under no obligation to put it right during this phase of development, we are all waiting for the finished game to see if it is fixed.
Tab Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) some gents with incredible nonstandard analytic capabilities in this thread. Reminds me of http://youtu.be/z8RbE4ATODc by the way. Is anybody of you able to tell what was the frame rate in the video and whether original timing is preserved Edited June 5, 2014 by Tab
AX2 Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Mustang, chill man, you are not the only one that has raised the exact same oppinions on this subject, they have been beaten to death and the devs 'are' aware of the concerns, they are under no obligation to put it right during this phase of development, we are all waiting for the finished game to see if it is fixed. You are right But I have a year of waiting for them to fix the of ammunition dispersion ( Remember Laser vs Potatoes ) ? , sometimes I can not calm down, and go myself extremely furious Ofcourse not so furious http://www.tomsguide.com/us/bioware-bullying-harassment-death-threats-developer,news-17390.html I need another year to get there I'm just kidding Tab nice video Edited June 5, 2014 by Mustang
BraveSirRobin Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 The camera is fixatet at one point in this case. The camera is on another plane, so it's not fixated on anything. It's moving, and you have no clue how it's moving relative to the aircraft in the video.
Anw.StG2_Tyke Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 The camera is on another plane, so it's not fixated on anything. It's moving, and you have no clue how it's moving relative to the aircraft in the video. Actually no, because that part of the video is from a Wochenschau report, which is filmed from the ground. It is just a propaganda video made to show the civilians the 109 in action. 1
BraveSirRobin Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 Actually no, because that part of the video is from a Wochenschau report, which is filmed from the ground. It is just a propaganda video made to show the civilians the 109 in action. OK, so it's a guy standing on the ground. Have you ever tried to video aircraft from the ground? I have. You have to move the camera to do it. Unless you know exactly how the camera moved, the video is useless. The donkey balls video does a pretty good job of explaining why.
DD_bongodriver Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 The donkey balls video showed us how some apparently strange methods end up giving us good information.
AX2 Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 The donkey balls video showed us how some apparently strange methods end up giving us good information. Yes better all of us be calm
BraveSirRobin Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) The donkey balls video showed us how some apparently strange methods end up giving us good information. Which is why aircraft test flights are always evaluated from 2 second film clips shot from hand held cameras on the ground. Wait a second... Edited June 5, 2014 by BraveSirRobin
DD_bongodriver Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just saying what the donkey balls was telling us.
BraveSirRobin Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 No, that's not what the donkey balls were telling us. You're looking at the donkey balls from the wrong direction. Mustang's foolishness is actually hurting the credibility of the "109 is porked" mob.
DD_bongodriver Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 No, it really was telling us that, it is the entire punch line of the joke. the truth is out there, pull the donkeys balls away from your face, we have a video of a 109 doing a neg 'g' bunt and it doesn't spin. 1
AX2 Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Which is why aircraft test flights are always evaluated from 2 second film clips shot from hand held cameras on the ground. Wait a second... I do not say that movie is even exact test, but in the facts you are viewing a maneuver performed in less than 2 seconds. 109 doing a neg 'g' after a climb manuever at 45 º All of my post have a line in common , I say look the original photo , look the original movie. I can only listen Not NoT Not but, ever nobody showed nothing can prove the opposite. Honestly I entertain myself a lot in this forum and it's very funny. Edited June 5, 2014 by Mustang
BraveSirRobin Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 Honestly I entertain myself a lot in this forum and it's very funny. Translated: I'm just trolling. 1
DD_bongodriver Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 Well for a while I thought Mustang was raaaid, raaaid seems to be well tolerated here so why not Mustang. 1
BraveSirRobin Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 raaaaaaaaaaid mostly stays out of the flight sim discussions.
AX2 Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) You have to watch Pips hand plane lesson in seconds 15-17 to understand the fullness of the pictures above. I prefer see "Pips" at The Longest Day movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbxbEv2xMnU Incredible "Pips" in a movie . He was one of several D-day combatants to advise on the making of the film The Longest Day. ___________________________________________________ Im no raaid . I show original things like photos and videos , not plasticine puppets like raaaid .. Edited June 5, 2014 by Mustang
AX2 Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 Translated: I'm just trolling. Is funny becouse, " I say look the original photo , look the original movie. " then I can only listen Not NoT Not, But nobody showed nothing can prove the opposite. I do not want to fight just take things relaxed, then I take the fun way
Sokol1 Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Mustang You are a hero, don't listen the others "trolls", continues your "109 battle". Sokol1 Edited June 5, 2014 by Sokol1
AX2 Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) I just want to help. and show what I find In the future when we have Spitefires and Mustangs . You must understand that, I do not choose sides. I show the dive test of the 109 at pdf file, which is more negative than positive for the 109 . I just try to be neutral, but I guess you never will understand. Edited June 5, 2014 by Mustang
sturmkraehe Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Sorry, Mustang, but you need to learn about perspective. The clip you posted does not support anything you want to support. Watch this clip from an Ariane 5 launch From 1:37 you see the rocket with its exhaust gas that indicate the trajectory (roughly). As you can see the trail starts out horizontally but then turns apparently downwards. This is a simple effect of a moving object passing by a static observer. I can assure you the rocket still zooms up and does neither turn left or right. Another clip on the Space Shuttle: Watch from 1:40 (or the whole clip - worthwhile). The Shuttle seems to make a yaw turn to the right but it is just the camera that is turning. Edited June 5, 2014 by sturmkraehe
BraveSirRobin Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 The problem isn't that you're showing what you find, the problem is that the stuff you're finding doesn't show anything useful.
DD_bongodriver Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Seen it all now, comparing a few seconds of a 109 to a rocket travelling at several times the speed of sound for nearly 4 minutes..........and Mustang is the weird one? Edited June 5, 2014 by DD_bongodriver
DD_bongodriver Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 I'm not, I'm sticking to the 109 footage on it's own merit, a few seconds of cine film taken from the ground is not going to see much change of perspective.
sturmkraehe Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 Actually it can. Depends how fast the camera holder turns the camera (you can turn a camera about 3 axis - you can turn it also while continuing to point to your motif). This is what I wanted to show. One needs to be extremely careful with angles and perspective when watching a video/photo. This is why you need a static reference point to at least get a grasp about camera movement.
DD_bongodriver Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 Yeah, I'm sure the Nazi cameraman was having a creative day and wanted to muck around with new techniques that day. 1
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