Stong roll when flying a Gloster Gladiator

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Translated into English from a French-language forum:

 

"Hello. There is a strong roll on the Gloster that one cannot handle, not even using the trim. This is weird and, in my opinion,  very exaggerated. There is one elevator trim tab on the plane's elevator but no aileron trim tabs in the wings. Have you found am issue to that problem?"

 

(user looping 44 asked the above question)

[dazako]

Gladiator is a very early design and only has elevator trim. The roll instability improves as the a/c goes faster and rudder input is frequently required to keep you going straight.

 

Daz 

Edited January 7, 2021 by dazako

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Thx for the answer but... a/c? what's that?

[blue_six]

Bonjour Kintaro, "a/c" in Daz's reply means aircraft (avion).

 

I agree with looping 44's observation and submitted this input to the bugtracker (#1328) a few weeks ago:  "At all but the most modest power settings, the Gladiator wants to roll to the right. As neither aileron nor rudder trim is available to counter this torque effect, the player must continually compensate. The effort is significant at high boost settings. In real life, I suspect the airframe would be rigged to be more or less balanced laterally at typical cruise airspeed and power setting (170 mph IAS, 2200 rpm and +3 pounds boost, according to the flashcards).  If this could be incorporated into the FM, the Gladiator would be much more enjoyable and rewarding to fly. The player will still have to compensate in non-cruise conditions, but these corrections will be relatively minor compared to what is seen now and the fact that they will vary in direction depending on airspeed and power setting will enhance realism."

 

I expect this will be addressed in due course.  It's not a major issue, and has already been addressed on other models not equipped with aileron or rudder trim.

 

blue six

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Ok, thank you fellows. The bug tracker is a useful tool, undoubtedly, but my feeling is that the bug tracker is not very active now because devs are busy with TrueSky. I don't think we get any improvement of the flight models before a long time. Let's wait and see.

[Blitzen]

EVEN SO i GOT 4 CR-42'S YESTERDAY, IN THE GLADIATOR CAMPAIGN MISSION WHICH ADMITTEDLY i VIEW AS SOME SORT OF A MIRACLE...

[Buzzsaw]

All the aircraft are trimmed to fly at cruise.

 

We actually defines 'cruise' as a higher power setting than the historical aircraft as players tend to fly at higher rpm/boost than historical pilots did.

 

This means the Glad is more in trim at higher boost/rpm than the historical aircraft.  (set to approx. +3.5/2400 rpm)

 

Still with the fact the Glad has a fixed pitch prop the aircraft is going to be out of trim a lot of the time due to the fact the prop is designed only to operate at cruise rpms at higher altitudes.  At low altitudes it can't exceed much more than 2200 rpm.  Historically pilots did not fly at sea level, they climbed to patrol altitude, which was around 12,000 - 15,000 ft.

 

We will look at the Gladiator trim again, but it should be at its best compromise now.

[Buzzsaw]

We have updated the Gladiator Trim default settings in the upcoming patch.  (out at the end of this week)

 

As well we corrected the level speeds and details regarding the prop governor and pitch settings.

 

These should see the Gladiator tend less noticeably to roll right as well as improving its maximum speed.

[Blitzen]

Thanks ! Really looking forward to.....patch 015?

[blue_six]

Has anyone out there been able to find the “sweet spot” in cruise where the Gladiator will fly (briefly) hands off, with wings level at a more or less constant airspeed, heading and altitude? Even at TF 5.016, I'm still seeing a moderate to strong tendency to roll right at any power setting above approximately 20-25% throttle, far below what's needed for a reasonable cruise speed.  Cruising at 170 mph or higher, the amount of left aileron input required to hold the wings level is quite noticeable at the stick and in the visual model. The CR.42, which similarly has only elevator trim, seems very nicely balanced in comparison. Is it just me?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Hello blue_six. You know we already discussed the matter in a private discussion. In the meantime I proceeded to more advanced tests at different altitudes and speeds and I must admit that I was a bit hasty in announcing a satisfactory judgement on this issue.

 

I guess that in the 1930s, when the aircraft reached the proper speed, the pilot was able to trim properly his plane, release the stick and obtain a straight leveled flight, at least for a few minutes. The truth is that I don't know what to really think about all of this. I'm not an expert on the type, nor a developer...

[Buzzsaw]

As I have mentioned, the Gladiator has a fixed pitch propellor, which means the trim which works at lower altitudes will not work at higher.'

 

That is because the aircraft cannot achieve maximum rpms at low altitudes with its fixed pitch.

 

The pitch design of the prop causes the prop to only reach maximum rpms, (2750)  in level flight at its full throttle height, or approx. 12,500 ft.

 

At sea level, it can only reach approx. 2400 rpm in level flight.

 

Higher rpms cause more torque, and so when the default trim is set for higher altitudes, at low altitudes, the aircraft tends to be out of trim.

 

Right now we are at a trim setting which is the compromise I found best.  But it is not going to be perfect at all altitudes.

 

I may have time to look at it again later, but right now I need to focus on other issues... like getting a new module up and running.  ?

[blue_six]

Understood Buzzsaw, and will appreciate you checking the default trim settings once more when time permits.  I was at approx 10,000 feet while attempting to find the Gladiator's balance point in cruise.  Plenty more to enjoy about TF 5 while I'm waiting - the team has done a great job.