Bf 109 Turn time

[VikingFjord]

if you ever played War Thunder you would know that the Turn time on a Bf 109

is ages away from a spitfire and when i think about it the turn time of Bf 109 in most games is worse then spitfire and often
is compared to Mustang
my grandfather was a Flight mechanic in the army for many many years when he got older he became a teacher for other flight mechanics in the army
he used to work alot on Spitfires and some rare times he also worked on Bf 109 and from those experiance they where very impressed with the Bf 109
when facing Spitfires

there is no doubt that german planes in the games is sometimes under rated in terms of preformance

so how is turn time gonna be in IL2?

 

Heres a video of two pilots talking about turn time on Bf 109

[AndyJWest]

If I ever use War Thunder as evidence for aircraft performance, you have my permission to drag me off to the home for the terminally ga-ga.

 

My maternal grandmother worked with the RFC (or possibly the RNAS) towards the end of WWI. She never told me how well a Sopwith Camel could turn, but if she had done, I'm sure she would have told me that Fokker Triplanes could tie them in knots.

 

I read a book about Biggles once.

 

Would you like to see a video of Donald Duck pretending to be a test pilot?

[Bassly]

Would you like to see a video of Donald Duck pretending to be a test pilot?

 

Yes, please. 

[JtD]

Would it be possible to treat folks with a little more respect and try not to ridicule them?

 

It wouldn't be that hard to for instance share the information of Soviet turn time tests, where Spitfires of various models tested out somewhere between 17.5s and 18.5s for a sustained turn at 1000m altitude, whereas Bf 109's were tested with 19.5s to 21.5s, which puts a 2-3 second gap between the two.

 

Personally I haven't tested this in game, but the turn times should be better than the ones given here, because it is very cold in game, which improves turning performance. Make sure to not lose/gain altitude or speed during the turns.

[=LD=Hethwill]

Some pilots do amazing things with their airplanes that defy the Manuals.

 

That only proves that some pilots were indeed gifted and to some extent that the planes might go through the normal envelope considered by the engineers which built them.

 

That is not the norm.

 

You have as many convincing testimonies about this plane as much as you have from the plane that faced it in all theatres of war.

 

Mathematics are a fact. If you design the airframe, in game, with exact numbers in a core engine that simulates the Earth physics, including air pressure, wind, etc. you will have credible flight patterns for the 109 and all other planes.

 

BOS has that.

 

As a gift I present you one of the things that best simulates a armchair combat pilot

 

Edited May 29, 2014 by =LD=Hethwill_Khan

[BlitzPig_EL]

Short synopsis of how this thread will go...

 

(Just like every time this comes up, on every flight sim forum since the dawn of the genre.)

 

1. Bf 109's turn is undermodeled.

 

2. Spitfire's wing area brought up vs. 109s highly loaded wing.

 

3. Slats.

 

4. Pilot anecdotal accounts of 109s turning inside Spits.

 

5. Modern air show pilot's accounts of P 51 out turning 109.

 

6. Online "expert" shows up with phoney charts.

 

7. 10 pages later after total flame fest thread is forgotten until the next time the subject is broached.

[IVJG4-Knight]

If we look at wing loading for both the spitfire and 109, the spit should outturn the 109 .But the Spit has very thin wings,and no slats .

There is just no way to know for sure exactly ho well the spit turned vs the 109. It's possible the Spit outturned the 109 by a hair. IT's possible the spit turned infinitly better than the 109. It's possible the 109 turned better than the spit.

 

There is also another thing:  g stress is not simulated properly in most simulations.

If you look at DCS-P51 (the gentleman who produced this simulation also produce simulators for the army) if you pull too hard on the stick you might brake your wing off. Happend to me a lot of times. So you just can't always turn as hard as you want because you are afraid to brake your wings.This is not simulated in other simulations that have a flyable spit.

I think there are more than a few documented examples in real life. One i know of:

 

Jan Eugeniusz Ludwik Zumbach. Polish RAF ace. with 13 kills at the time dogfights a 109 E with a hurricane(P 3577 "RF-E") near Hastings . The 109 is shot down but the hurricane's structure is compromised because of the G force.

After refueling and rearming when speeding up to atack a bomber his hurricane just brakes apart in the air.

 

.

Edited May 29, 2014 by IVJG4-Knight

[Bassly]

7. 10 pages later after total flame fest thread is forgotten until the next time the subject is broached.

 

Nr. 7 should have two options. A is what you described and B should be the flame fest with in before the lock gifs on last page and the lock itself between pages 3 and 5.

[DD_bongodriver]

Short synopsis of how this thread will go...

(Just like every time this comes up, on every flight sim forum since the dawn of the genre.)

1. Bf 109's turn is undermodeled.

2. Spitfire's wing area brought up vs. 109s highly loaded wing.

3. Slats.

4. Pilot anecdotal accounts of 109s turning inside Spits.

5. Modern air show pilot's accounts of P 51 out turning 109.

6. Online "expert" shows up with phoney charts.

7. 10 pages later after total flame fest thread is forgotten until the next time the subject is broached.

 

Don't forget the obligatory videos of the 109 Luftwhiners messiah Skip Holm......oh wait.

[Cautus]

Also, keep in mind that any accounts from 109 pilots that survived the war will be biased.  Not many 109 pilots that got outturned by a spitfire were still around to give the account.

[VikingFjord]

If I ever use War Thunder as evidence for aircraft performance, you have my permission to drag me off to the home for the terminally ga-ga.

 

i dont use War Thunder as evidence...just tried to explain how developers allways under estimate the Bf 109..

so i guess u misunderstood

my point is really will il2 under estimate the Bf109 as most other games does..

 

 

[Tab]

[AX2]

my point is really will il2 under estimate the Bf109 as most other games does..

 

 

The answer is NOT,

I dont like the FM of the BF 109 here in BoS, need  large Fixes, Rudder.  wobble, pitch , and guns.

 

But here the BF 109 is not underestimate.

 

Some russian planes have a good FM... like  Su26 FM for Yak 1,  ( OK maybe I am a Lutfwinner , but also I fly Red too )

Yak 1 my Ride  in BoS !!

 

Full expert server, cockpit record

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsoGzAcy9c4

 

 

VikingFjord send me your user name in  War Thunder by Pivate Manssage please   

 

Edited May 29, 2014 by Mustang

[FlatSpinMan]

And... we're done! Cut!

 

Thanks for coming, one and all. We'll be here all week.

 

 

 

Locking to avoid the predictions mentioned above.