Automatic/Manual radiator control modes

[VA_chikinpickle]

Would it be possible to add separate keybindings for switching between radiator control modes for engines #1 and #2?

 

In the P38 it is possible to switch one engines radiators into manual control mode while leaving the other engines radiators operating automatically. In the current control scheme this doesnt seem possible.

 

Why it is needed. Well, it isnt but it would add some immersion and realism to the P38. For example: the engine out procedure states to shut down the dead engine and manually close the radiators. You leave the running engine operating in automatic mode. This procedure cant be performed on the P38 here, and it seems like a small thing to add.

 

Thanks for your time, and for this game. It has been loads of fun.

Edited January 4, 2021 by VA_chikinpickle

[DJBscout]

While there aren't separate keybinds for engine 1 or 2 rad/oil rad/auto rad like there are separate binds for engine 1/2 throttle and prop RPM, you can toggle engine control manually, and with this done, the changes you make with the main engine control settings will only apply to the selected engine(s). (I believe toggling control is bound to 1 and 2 by default)

 

I do this all the time on startup. After the first engine starts, I select only that engine (tap "1", which both turns on engine selection and selects engine 1), then lean out the mixture to auto rich. This does not effect the second engine, which will be deselected, and still set to full rich. Once the second engine starts, I can either select both engines (tap "2" to toggle engine two control on) and tap the "down mixture" button so the second mixture automatically matches up with the first mixture (more on that in a moment), or I can select just the second engine (tap "1" to toggle off engine 1 control and "2" to toggle on engine 2 control) and then manually move it down to the same spot. 

 

The key to this method is to have only the desired engine selected, and leave the engine you desire to leave alone deselected. Upon reselecting an engine, no changes will occur automatically. However, as soon as changes are made with an engine selected, then it will shift, potentially drastically. It will always jump to match a physical axis upon adjustment, and both engines will always match to the same value. This is to keep the same adjustment from having completely different effects on both engines, which would quite frankly be absolutely bewildering to try and manage.

 

For example:

• If you have a control bound to an axis, any adjustment when selected will cause any selected engines to jump to the current axis setting.
  • If you had manually put one (or both) throttle(s) at 0%, deselected engine 1, and put the other at 100%, deselected both, and put the throttle at 50%, nothing will change if you then reselect both engines. However, if you then moved the axis to 49 or 51%, both throttles would jump to that 49 or 51%. 
• If you have two axes bound to increase or decrease with buttons, it will behave in a similar manner, jumping to whichever value is closest to the the commanded shift.
  • i.e., if you have oil rad 1 at 10%, and oil rad 2 at 90%, then select both engines and push "increase oil rad", both engines will go to 91%, while pushing "decrease oil rad" will put both engines at 9% (I'm pretty sure this is how this works but am not 100% certain. lmk if I'm wrong here)
• If you have two binary on/off settings, I don't remember which it chooses. I think it defaults to on?
  • If you have engine 1 on "auto oil rad ON", engine 2 on "auto oil rad OFF", I believe pushing "toggle auto oil rad" will change both to "ON". It might change both to off, but under no circumstances would it turn 1 off and 2 on.

It seems a little complicated at first, but it's actually not too complicated to get the hang of when you actually do it. It's also much easier than trying to equalize two different settings by holding up or down until both hit max or min values, or even having to try and deselect one to align the axes then reselect. Ugh, that'd be so much worse.

 

While I don't necessarily oppose adding separate keybinds for all the engine controls, I also don't think it's particularly necessary, and would add significantly to what is already a quite long and complicated list of keybinds to go through. Additionally, the need to actually adjust multiple engines at a time is quite slim. Your example (leaving one engine on auto while adjusting the other to manual and fully closed) works perfectly well within the current system. Simply deselect engine 1, make the required changes on engine 2, then reselect engine 1 and deselect engine 2. Engine 2 is now manually feathered and has everything closed, engine 1 is on auto, and any changes you make will only effect engine 1.

[VA_chikinpickle]

Quote

While I don't necessarily oppose adding separate keybinds for all the engine controls, I also don't think it's particularly necessary, and would add significantly to what is already a quite long and complicated list of keybinds to go through. Additionally, the need to actually adjust multiple engines at a time is quite slim. Your example (leaving one engine on auto while adjusting the other to manual and fully closed) works perfectly well within the current system. Simply deselect engine 1, make the required changes on engine 2, then reselect engine 1 and deselect engine 2. Engine 2 is now manually feathered and has everything closed, engine 1 is on auto, and any changes you make will only effect engine 1.

 

So I'm familiar with the engine selection ability, and that method of adjusting engine controls, and I have used this method for quite some time to adjust all other engine controls in the P38. It is clunky, but it can be used. I appreciate your time to explain it to me however, in the case that I did not know. 

 

That being said, I think that pictures and videos are worth 1000 words. I have made a short video showing that the manual/automatic modes of the oil radiators are completely linked, and that even engine selection does not allow you to perform the proper engine out procedure in the P38. Here we can see that I have one engine selected, when toggling between manual and automatic modes, you can see that both engine radiators change modes. In the second demonstration, I have no engines selected at all, yet the controls still function to change the mode of both radiators.

 

 

 

I realize this seems obscure and nit picky especially to some people with simple setups, but to give context, I fly in VR with a custom simpit. I have a switch panel dedicated to all the engine functions so I can fly twins and not have to look at a keyboard for anything, or mess with juggling the engine selection. I enjoy the high level of immersion that il2 offers in VR especially with real switches to hit. I've read the flight manuals and enjoy following the procedures when I fly, this is a simulator with some extra complexity, for those who wish to take advantage of it. I would submit to those who don't wish to take advantage of the added complexity, that you can always do the same thing that all the other engine controls do. You can set up the manual/auto switch to a single binding just like prop feather, radiator position, etc. No need for you to use it if you don't want. But for those who would like to use separate engine bindings for our fancy overkill setups, it is there. And even the current setup does not support the proper function with engine selection and radiator modes. I don't see how adding an additional 4 key bindings would somehow now cause a person to be overwhelmed by complex key binding schemes, but that is only my opinion.

 

For more context, here is the flight training video for the P38, showing the procedure for shutting down a dead engine. Not possible with the current control scheme, even without separate bindings as engine selection does not affect the radiator mode controls. 

 

 

The demonstration film is from an earlier variant of the P38, but you can see that closing the prestone (coolant) and oil cooler flaps of the dead engine is part of the procedure. Included below is a page from the flight manual stating the same thing. Item #7 on the procedure. 

 

 

I don't see how it would hurt anything to add this function into the game, it would only add to it. And you can see that there is a similar request regarding prop feather controls in this very same forum from one year ago, which the devs were nice enough to grant. 

 

Cheers, 

Edited January 18, 2021 by VA_chikinpickle