Negative G - Spitfire

[Mad-Moses]

Should this be possible?

 

I've been seeing it a lot from Spitfire pilots online.

 

FW 190 A-8 vs Spitfire Mk.IXe

 

Mad-Moses

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/858371281

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Mad-Moses

[ZachariasX]

42 minutes ago, Mad-Moses said:

I've been seeing it a lot from Spitfire pilots online.

Like the funny positive or negative flick roll in the 190 to hit the brakes and force an overshoot.

 

The Spit has a very light elevator and in the game it requires very little travel to push/pull a lot of g. So yes, it is not out of the ordinary. But if you do that, you will not have much fittness left if the opponent comes around to fight you again.

[Mad-Moses]

If it's accurate that's fine... just doesn't look right to me or aerodynamically possible to achieve IRL but I could be wrong.

 

You would think a plane with with a larger elevator surface and less dihedral angle in the wing would be able to perform that maneuver better... trying to figure out why the Spitfire can do this so much better that other aircraft... Tempest is also quiet good at this.

 

Mad-Moses

[354thFG_Rails]

Yeah that's not him pushing the stick like that. that's from you scoring hits on his tail. Have you flown the spit before? This happens all the time when the tail is struck. Straight down you go and you can't pull out of it. It happened to the Mustang and P-38 as well till they "fixed" those or just made it less violent.

[III/JG52_Otto_-I-]

On 1/2/2021 at 7:20 AM, Mad-Moses said:

I've been seeing it a lot from Spitfire pilots online.

It's very know that the Spitfire suffered problems with the stick low forces in the elevator. Many wartime reports stated the easy tendency to accelerated stalls and spin in Spit Mk-I to MK-V, if the pilots didn´t used the elevator carefully in tight turns. Moreover several pilots killed trying to recover dives, when elevators surfaces were ripped in the pull-ups.
For these reasons Spitfire Mk-V and onward, was equipped with the "bob-weight" a counter weight who prevent the over command of the elevator in high G´s manoeuvring.The elevator horn-balance was modified too in later series.
 

Spoiler

Spitfire elevtor bob-weight


Spifire elevator development.

The bob-weight, the elevator surfaces enlarged and the increasing of the total weight of the aircraft becoming the Spitfire Mk-IX in lower manoeuvrability than early versions. That high aggressive maneuver in negative G´s that the Spit 9 is doing in your video , without causing a brutal spin doesn't seem realistic..

All WWII piston airplanes pilots reported problems about controls stiffening over 400 mph (645 kph) even the Spitfires. Moreover many allies fighters pilots reported that they were almost impossible to recover dives over 500 mph (804 kph) unlike German fighters equipped with adjustable horizontal stabiliser who could recover the dives more easily at such airspeeds.

Edited January 3, 2021 by III/JG52_Otto_-I-

[-SF-Disarray]

More over, this behavior isn't unique to Spitfires in the game. I see 109s do that kind of maneuver all the time.

[Mad-Moses]

22 hours ago, QB.Rails said:

Yeah that's not him pushing the stick like that. that's from you scoring hits on his tail. Have you flown the spit before? This happens all the time when the tail is struck. Straight down you go and you can't pull out of it. It happened to the Mustang and P-38 as well till they "fixed" those or just made it less violent.

 

Nope 100% not from me hitting him... seen it done plenty of times even before I shoot, I can riffle through some past broadcasts and post more clips if you like.

 

The one common equation is that it's the elliptical wing version that does this maneuver most dramatically.

 

Yes I have flown the Spit IX quite a bit... prefer the clip wing version for the roll rate.

 

MM

2 hours ago, -SF-Disarray said:

More over, this behavior isn't unique to Spitfires in the game. I see 109s do that kind of maneuver all the time.

 

Yes the 109 seems adept at negative-g maneuvers as well but not anything near what the elliptical wing Spit IX can pull off.

 

... I'm not here to debate and politic over one thing or another; I would just like conformation if this maneuver is true to life, actually aerodynamically possible to achieve and withstand from air frame and pilot perspective... if it is I am fine with that, if not fix it.

 

MM

[-SF-Disarray]

I was more so pointing out that if this is a defect in the FM it is a general one, not specific to the Spitfires