Bomber Career Question

[admiralackbar86]

I am one of those guys who loves flying bombers, one of my favorite games growing up was "B-17 Flying Fortress - The Mighty 8th".  I have tried starting a couple careers, one in the HE-111, one in the JU-88.  Every mission i have played so far I am having an issue where all the AI planes just circle the target endlessly after dropping their bombs.  I usually just get fed up after 10 minutes and fly back by myself, but this ruins the experience.  Is there something i am messing up during the mission that causes this, or is there some way to fix this?  

[LukeFF]

The next time you see this happen, go into /data/missions and zip the _gen mission file and then post it up in the Technical Issues section of the forum. That's the fastest way for the developers to see where there may been an issue. Just be aware that this file is overwritten every time you generate a new career or quick mission, so it's essential to save the file before generating a new mission.

[DFLion]

A good question admiralackbar86,

I'm currently working on a bomber campaign for COD 'Desert Wings TOBRUK' flying the great Wellington Mk.1 bomber, which is a really good model of the real aircraft and very interesting to fly in the sim. I have already produced a Ju88 bomber campaign in the original COD, which worked well, the Ju88 is another great aircraft to fly in this sim. Because 'Team Fusion' have done such a magnificent job upgrading the COD flight sim, I will have to revise this Ju88 campaign to make it work correctly with all the latest updates. 

Down the track I will look at making a 'Great Battles' bomber mission (or campaign) and will probably wait until the Normandy map is released as German and Allied bombers were active over Normandy before during and after D Day.

DFLion

 

[DN308]

I would like a link to these campaigns. I’m a great fan of the bombers missions and campaigns

[9./JG52Gruber]

I have about 350+ missions in career in He 111 & Ju 88 so hopefully I can help the OP out as I have never experienced this. Were you the flight lead? Day or night mission?

[admiralackbar86]

2 hours ago, 9./JG52Gruber said:

I have about 350+ missions in career in He 111 & Ju 88 so hopefully I can help the OP out as I have never experienced this. Were you the flight lead? Day or night mission?

 

No i was not flight lead, they were day missions.  One on Moscow campaign, one on Stalingrad campaign.  I was assuming it wasn't a bug, and i was just doing something wrong as i built a new PC a couple weeks ago and with a fresh install the issue carried over.  What should happen on a normal run after the bombs are dropped, does the flight group instantly head back?  Could me not being in formation cause this issue, i am not the best at formation flying at the moment with the bombers. 

 

I will try to fly some more bomber missions this week when i have time, and try to record the issue if it still persists.

 

I appreciate all the help so far, this is a great community. 

[Q_Walker]

I had a mission recently where we dropped bombs and we started on our waypoint back to our airfield. As we were heading back, the entire flight kept swerving to the left, and then back to the right for a good while. The swerving was almost like when fighters are escorting bombers and sway back and forth to keep in pace with them. It was a little strange, maybe something to do with being intercepted by fighters as we were under attack. I'll look out for anything unusual in my bomber career as well.

[9./JG52Gruber]

11 hours ago, admiralackbar86 said:

 

No i was not flight lead, they were day missions.  One on Moscow campaign, one on Stalingrad campaign.  I was assuming it wasn't a bug, and i was just doing something wrong as i built a new PC a couple weeks ago and with a fresh install the issue carried over.  What should happen on a normal run after the bombs are dropped, does the flight group instantly head back?  Could me not being in formation cause this issue, i am not the best at formation flying at the moment with the bombers. 

 

I will try to fly some more bomber missions this week when i have time, and try to record the issue if it still persists.

 

I appreciate all the help so far, this is a great community. 

 

Try starting a career as flight lead. I admit it is many game versions ago since I flew as part of the formation instead of leading so I can't comment on that.

 

But as lead after takeoff circle your airfield once before departing for the 1st waypoint. That gives everybody a chance to start to climb. Do not give the formation any orders. They will follow you and bomb on your bomb release by default. Once I hit 500m I throttle back to cruise settings till 2.5km before going to climb settings and next supercharger stage then back to cruise once at desired bombing altitude. This allows the AI to keep formation and your bombing pattern of the target will be as good as your aim. The group will now bomb on your release. After bomb release immediately start gentle turn to next waypoint, do not watch your bombs or your chance of AAA hit increases dramatically, record a track if you want to do BDA. Descend back to base between 5-10 m/s and AI will stay in formation with you all the way back to base when they will automatically break off once you start your approach. In my experience the Ju88 AI does a better job of staying in formation after the bomb drop than He 111, which can sometimes get a little strung out. I have not yet figured out why. 

[admiralackbar86]

7 hours ago, 9./JG52Gruber said:

 

Try starting a career as flight lead. I admit it is many game versions ago since I flew as part of the formation instead of leading so I can't comment on that.

 

But as lead after takeoff circle your airfield once before departing for the 1st waypoint. That gives everybody a chance to start to climb. Do not give the formation any orders. They will follow you and bomb on your bomb release by default. Once I hit 500m I throttle back to cruise settings till 2.5km before going to climb settings and next supercharger stage then back to cruise once at desired bombing altitude. This allows the AI to keep formation and your bombing pattern of the target will be as good as your aim. The group will now bomb on your release. After bomb release immediately start gentle turn to next waypoint, do not watch your bombs or your chance of AAA hit increases dramatically, record a track if you want to do BDA. Descend back to base between 5-10 m/s and AI will stay in formation with you all the way back to base when they will automatically break off once you start your approach. In my experience the Ju88 AI does a better job of staying in formation after the bomb drop than He 111, which can sometimes get a little strung out. I have not yet figured out why. 

 

Thanks for the help, if the problem persists after this week I will switch to lead, although I do enjoy trying (although very poorly) to stay in the middle of a formation. 

[Reldnev]

I experience exactly the same. I have embarked on 2 different careers (Kampfgeschwader), one with the battle of Moscow and the other with the battle of Stalingrad, hoping to avoid the problem, but to no avail.

In about two thirds of the around 10 missions that I have flown so far, the AI bombers never returned but rather just kept flying in circle over the target after having dropped their bombs.

I will now follow the advice by 9./JG52Gruber and just fly as flight lead instead.

[[FF]Saiyon]

This happened to me also, just circling the zone after all bombs dropped. I don't think I did anything wrong either.

 

If I choose flight lead and decide to "dive bomb" instead of level bomb will the AI pilots follow and release at the same time?

 

I suppose I can just try it to find out the answer!

[RedeyeStorm]

This endlessly circling of the bomb target I have seen as well. Flying as lead will not have this because the AI follows you. When I fly as wing I have seen it but infrequently. It is not a specific mission but I have the impression it happens when the AI flightlead misses with his bombs. Not sure though. Will try to remember to post the _gen mission the next time.

[Alexenyanna]

I have two missions one with circling bombers other is fine and in both Lead have hits

[PatrickAWlson]

The key will be what is the attack mechanism and what triggers the end of the bomb run. 

 

There are two basic ways to do ground attacks: let the AI choose a target or tell the AI to drop on a location.   Letting the AI choose a target tends to make it more effective but is not great for level bombers.  The Ai will repeatedly try for pinpoint attacks while dropping portions of its payload.  IMHO for level bombing it is better to drop everything.  Dissenting opinions welcome.

 

There are two ways to end an attack: disable the attack command and trigger an egress waypoint or stop attacking on bingo bombs.  Advantages to each.  Using bingo bombs causes the AI to break away without waiting for a timer.  Using a timed mechanism guarantees that the bombers break away but could leave them circling unnecessarily for awhile.  IMHO the best is to have both.

 

if bombers are stuck that means that their attack command has never terminated and/or the return waypoint has never been triggered.

Possible reasons:

Trigger tied to bingo bombs and leader still has some in the rack.

Timer/trigger to disengage has conditions that cause it to fail.

Waypoint does trigger but for some reason leader ignores it.

 

In the game you can sort of tell which by using icons.  When they are circling is your attack icon still active?  Is a waypoint icon active?  Neither?  When did your attack icon go away, if it did?  

Edited February 8, 2021 by PatrickAWlson

[Alexenyanna]

First mission was airfield bomb and was failure, had the red x as marker and formation returned to base. On all other had success and formation continue to circle

 

[9./JG52Gruber]

Here is a short track of a career mission I just completed showing the bombing run on an enemy frontline strongpoint and turn to next waypoint. I fly in slightly reduced cruise power (75%) so AI can stay in formation, they drop their bombs when I do, and turn with me for home. If I let the track go another minute they are all back in formation. Mission accomplished. I give no commands during the entire flight. I have never seen AI from my formation just circling. ?‍♂️

 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RyoMjO539ppbP5gMy-k07XhdCidu5Wln/view?usp=sharing

 

[Alexenyanna]

Thats because you are leader

[Yogiflight]

17 hours ago, 9./JG52Gruber said:

 I have never seen AI from my formation just circling. ?‍♂️

Sorry, but you completely missed the point. As you noticed yourself, that your squadmates simply follow you, because you are the leader, they of course don't circle, unless you circle. But it can't be the solution for this issue to always fly as leader, because then we are back at the times before BOK, in the old 'Campaign System', where you had to fly as leader. The sense of a 'Career Mode', however, is to make a career, will say start with the lowest rank and try to work yourself through the ranks until you are the squadleader. If anybody prefers to fly as leader only, he can feel free to do so, but this should not be the way you have to do to make the AI work like they should.

[Stromboli]

I have stopped flying Bomber Missions just because of this circling effect.  I've only noticed it on the Moscow and Stalingrad Maps. And it started for me after the 4.502 update. I hope it's fixed soon.

 

Stromboli

[bzegmag]

I have the same problem. I fly in Moscow campaing with Pe-2 and i am not a leader. Almost 50% missinons have this circling effect. I don´t know what they are waiting for. Enemy fighters then attacked my squadron and we had heavy causaulities. I have to stop this bombing carrier because is unplayetable. 

[Alexenyanna]

Are bomber been fixed with this patch?

[bzegmag]

Unfortunately no, this but haven't been repaired yet. Bombers are still circling over target (in specific mission)