Lagg-3 startup - rocket science?

[102.R.dd_Blade18]

Hi Gents,

 

for the life of me, I can't start the Lagg-3.

 

Throttle - full fwd

Mixture - full rich

Prop RPM - lowest, full back

pressing "E" spins the prop, then it dies, never starts up.

 

What am I missing?

 

Sorry, search didnt bring me up anything useful, doing everything as in the YT tutorial video.

[Denum]

Full mix, a little throttle, a little RPM. Good to go 

[102.R.dd_Blade18]

Yeah. It just doesnt happen to me ever.

[THERION]

7 minutes ago, Razor18 said:

Hi Gents,

 

for the life of me, I can't start the Lagg-3.

 

Throttle - full fwd

Mixture - full rich

Prop RPM - lowest, full back

pressing "E" spins the prop, then it dies, never starts up.

 

What am I missing?

 

Sorry, search didnt bring me up anything useful, doing everything as in the YT tutorial video.

 

1. RPM - full forward

2. Mixture - full rich

3. Throttle max. 10%

4. Start engine

 

Works always.

[cardboard_killer]

11 minutes ago, DenumPenguin said:

Full mix, a little throttle, a little RPM. Good to go 

 

Full RPM, no or little throttle until the engine turns over, then gun the throttle for a second to make sure it catches, then lower throttle back to 0.

[102.R.dd_Blade18]

I promise to try any and all settings, just having a little smile comparing those two suggestions just came in. Pretty much the opposite of each other (except both says mixture full rich) but both "works always" or "good to go"...

Trying...

 

 

EDIT:

Tried both. After prop starts spinning, the last green message on the right side is "Ignition coils engaged..." then the next is "Air start valves closed", and prop stops again. Whatever I do...

Edited December 30, 2020 by Razor18

[THERION]

12 minutes ago, Razor18 said:

I promise to try any and all settings, just having a little smile comparing those two suggestions just came in. Pretty much the opposite of each other (except both says mixture full rich) but both "works always" or "good to go"...

Trying

Tried both. After prop starts spinning, the last green message on the right side is "Ignition coils engaged..." then the next is "Air start valves closed", and prop stops again...

 

Retry the way I showed you, BUT make sure you don't use those fu**ing pilot assistance like throttle auto limit or engine auto control.

 

And btw. I just tried it for you to be sure nothing hasn't been messed up with the recent update and hotfixes - it works like a charm.

Edited December 30, 2020 by THERION

[Sky_Wolf]

 

[cardboard_killer]

Here's a track I just made. the first thing that moves is Mixture to 100%, then RPM to 100%, then I pressed E. Sit back, watch it do it's thing, then the engine turned over and I moved throttle to 100%, which started the plane rolling before I returned throttle to 0 and hit the breaks.EngineStartTrack.zip

Edited December 30, 2020 by cardboard_killer

[LLv24_SukkaVR]

RPM always full on startup. Not sure if mandatory, but i always open ~10% throttle. Works always.

[=420=Syphen]

42 minutes ago, Razor18 said:

I promise to try any and all settings, just having a little smile comparing those two suggestions just came in. Pretty much the opposite of each other (except both says mixture full rich) but both "works always" or "good to go"...

Trying...

 

 

EDIT:

Tried both. After prop starts spinning, the last green message on the right side is "Ignition coils engaged..." then the next is "Air start valves closed", and prop stops again. Whatever I do...

 

 

Nope. both of those suggestions are the same.. not opposite. I think you're confusing terms like Full, and Forward. In the Lagg, some of the controls are at 100% "Full", in the rear most position.

 

 

You want:

Mixture lever fully back in the virtual cockpit (100%, which is Full Rich)  (This may be fully forward on your HOTAS...)

Prop RPM lever fully forward in the virtual cockpit (100% RPM, this is full Fine pitch)

Throttle lever cracked open a hair, which means ALMOST fully back in the virtual cockpit.. 10% or so forward only. 

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by =420=Syphen

[cardboard_killer]

Are you using the warmed up engine option? If not, you need to lower RPM and throttle as soon as the engine catches and let it warm until the temperature rises, or you will freeze your engine. But it will start before it breaks

[102.R.dd_Blade18]

I tried on a MP server. How can I try it in single player? I don't remember any mission with a Lagg-3 cold start...

 

Thaks for your help

2 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

Are you using the warmed up engine option? If not, you need to lower RPM and throttle as soon as the engine catches and let it warm until the temperature rises, or you will freeze your engine. But it will start before it breaks

 

@cardboard_killer: yes, warmed up engine was on I guess...

[cardboard_killer]

Warmed up engine is a Realism setting. See below.

 

[102.R.dd_Blade18]

Yes, I know, it was checked on the server. I just dunno how to try cold start in single player.

[=420=Syphen]

3 minutes ago, Razor18 said:

Yes, I know, it was checked on the server. I just dunno how to try cold start in single player.

 

Quick Mission, choose a starting area and choose to start parked. Uncheck 'Warmed up Engine' under realism settings. Start mission. Cold & Dark. 

[cardboard_killer]

1 minute ago, Razor18 said:

Yes, I know, it was checked on the server. I just dunno how to try cold start in single player.

 

Go to a map, choose the circle with a single plane on it, choose the LaGG, and use the drop down indicator to start the single mission "Parked"

 

[102.R.dd_Blade18]

Now it worked at last, thanks. Why it didn't work with "Pre-warmed engine" checked? Anything should be done another way?

Edited December 30, 2020 by Razor18

[cardboard_killer]

11 minutes ago, Razor18 said:

Now it worked at last, thanks. Why it didn't work with "Pre-warmed engine" checked? Anything should be done another way?

 

I have never not used Pre-warmed engine. I have no idea what is happening. Did you watch the video I posted? If you did, and did exactly as I did, at what point did your engine fail to start? Did it turn over? Did it catch and then die? Can you make a video of what you're doing and post it?

[102.R.dd_Blade18]

Now it is OK, can start, but when I tried with "pre-warmed engine" checked, the engine didn't even coughed. Trying to spring to life, but after some whining, the starter stopped and auto-switched off a lot of things ("Air-start valve closed", bla bla). On the other hands, I saw a white-on-orange orange snowflake icon on the right side. Where can I find all the meanings of those icons?

 

Thanks

[TCW_Brzi_Joe]

In multiplayer, when starting, it is not enough that your levers already were at right positions (i.e. throttle 15%, mixture full, rpm a little or 100%). 

The game put for each spawn all of those values to zero position. YOU NEED TO MOVE LEVERS AT LEAST JUST A BIT, SO VALUES WILL BE MOVED FROM ZERO TO YOUR SETTINGS!

I found this hard way, your welcome!

[102.R.dd_Blade18]

Thanks, will try this way.

[FlyingH]

In your "realism" settings there is a tickmark in the row furthest to the right (green box) what does that stand for? Is it some engine helper? If so untick it and try again.

[102.R.dd_Blade18]

Nothing checked in the right column.

 

It turned out earlier, if "Pre-warmed engine" box is checked, it will not come to life, at least for me.

 

Unchecking that box, 100% RPM, 100% mixture, 10% throttle does the trick. Thanks for asking tough ! ☺️

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

From my observations, the map outside temperature and weather does seem to affect the exact % to set the throttle for a smooth start every time.  Also anecdotally,  it appears to me that engine "behavior"  is indeed modeled very well in this sim.

 

What I do is start with the throttle cracked open slightly.

Next, press E

When the engine starts turning, I wait a moment to hear the cylinders initially fire.   

If it doesn't sound like they'll stay firing, (yes, there is a subtlety  in the sound) I gently adjust the throttle up until it does "fire up and run". 

 

A drawback of this method is that adjusting the throttle up as the engine is initially "firing up"  can overfill the  point where the fuel is supposed to combust with the fuel, preventing ignition and requiring a wait for that part of the system to drain/evaporate excess fuel before another start attempt. If accurately modeled in-game (I didn't test this),  It should  also be possible to "flood" the engine with fuel beyond the point where the fuel is supposed to combust.  In that case, one would be stuck waiting for the fuel to drain or evaporate out before another startup attempt.  

Knowing that, if I throttle up to the point where the engine starts firing but sputters a bit roughly, then I bring the throttle back a touch I generally can avoid startup fails and potential system flooding.  With "feel" it's possible to adjust up the throttle until the engine stays running without having "hard" sputters on startup.  

After the engine stays running, I throttle fully back to idle and open the radiators.   

 

From my experiences with old farm equipment and having family that's owned and operated circa 1950s (or older) tractors and machines, cold starts, warm starts, hot weather and cold weather engine starts seem to be pretty similar when it comes to the engine used in the LaGG-3.   Given the size of the engine and other factors that make these types of engines similar, cold/very cold weather starts should be a bit trickier than with warm weather - especially if "warmed engine" is unchecked in the options.   

This can be observed as well when starting up a Pe-2. The general "range" for throttle when starting up a Pe-2 (in-game) can be from 10% to about 15%.  When properly set, the engines can be started without a single sputter and you can hear everything engage smoothly.  The trick is that 10% can sometimes be to low and 15% can border on being too high based on the outside weather. Hence, if you start at 10% and it "catches" smoothly, then that's the correct setting for that weather.  If you start at 10% and the engine doesn't so-to-speak "want to fire"  at the initial point it should "fire up", then the setting is incorrect for that weather and you need to add a little more until the the engine starts. 

 

Another way to demonstrate this is to purposely "forget" to crack the throttle open or put the mixture up then, correct the "error" at the last possible moment as the engine begins its turnover.

Again, the Pe-2 is more "forgiving" than the LaGG-3 with this but, it can be done with either plane in-game. There should be somewhat noticeable variations in the exact % amount needed for each in-game map weather and temp. conditions. 

 

As with the tractor engines I've mentioned and the LaGG-3 engine, too little throttle fails the startup and adding throttle too quickly and/or beyond a certain threshold will overfill the intake and firing system flooding it, and potentially flood the cylinders as well - failing the startup. 

I don't know if full-engine flooding is modeled in-game as the strong smell of fuel from the exhaust ports isn't exactly in our realm of VR simulation, yet. lol 

One way I can think of to test this would be to purposely "fail" a few startup attempts by over-gassing the engine, and seeing (or not) if there eventually is a rather long wait time  before you can start the engine properly or decide to give up. 

With a real engine that could be flooded, left to drain-out and/or let the fuel evaporate out, then restarted later, this is much easier to demonstrate.  

 

For in-game purposes, if you're starting with a pre-warmed engine, the start up is smoother but, the subtlety of misadjusting the throttle is still there, dependent on map weather.  With the LaGG-3, this characteristic in engine startup is a bit more sensitive and noticeable compared to other planes.  At least from my personal real-world experiences and in-game observations, (for me, at least) the modelling on this is reasonably believable as being done well.  

 

Or maybe I my "rocket science" is all screwed and I've let the New Year's hangover get to me in public...