Will TC be left behind?

[FTC_Tobi_der_Ossi]

2 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

 

Dont call it "balance" because balance and simulation does not fit together. You wish better tanks to fight the Tigre, that is understandable and we all hope that there will be more tanks. But you will never get a balance into this game, and i hope there will never be. The bad news are that when there will be a late western front, even the german tanks will develop and i dont have to tell you what that means ?

 

Dont forget that in reality there were a small number of Tigre's vs. numerous T34, so it its up to the server or mission designer to limit the number of Tigre's. So choose the server wisely. I recommend Finish Air War Server. There are no Tigres's only Panzer III and Panzer IV vs Sherman and T34. That is solving your problem. Btw. this is unbalanced because T34 is better than PzIII and PzIV. I heard no one crying yet, so feel free to bust some german tanks easily 

There are Ferdinands,Tigers and Panthers on Finnish. My Shermanplatoon just got destroyed some Days by a single Tiger since we where not able to penetrate it. 

 

I just say that Prokorovka is mabye beside Barbarossa with Pz38t and Pz4 vs KW1 and T34 is the most horrible Setting for Players as possible. Yes German Tanks whould develop in later Settings aswell. But in Western Front on 1944,there whould still be more or less the same german tanks. But at least the allies whould have Tanks to knock out Tigers frontaly out of a reasonable distance. Same goes for western Front. The M26 had more than just 3 Combat engagements. For a 1945 Setting like Bodenplatte the Tank whould have been not wrong after arround February. Yes Jagdtiger whould be hard to penetrate,but it whould be even slower than Ferdinand and still the Allied whould be able to kill it from the Site out of normal distances. Kingtiger whould be no Problem since there are enough Allied Guns that could Penetrate the Turretfront. One sided Bias helps not to attract Players and Players dont want to play Meatgrinder and drive 4 or 5 Times with a T34 on a single Tiger untill its finaly destroyed. Thats not fun. Besides of the Wehraboo who is probaly je+++ himself off. Poland 1944/Battle of Bulge whould be good. Jumboshermans or JS2 Tanks as something that can survive a 88 Shot for the Allies. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Tobi_der_Ossi

[Thad]

1 hour ago, 11thPanzer_Pete said:

 "fix em', flank em', f*ck em."

 

Words to war by. 

[LachenKrieg]

14 hours ago, Tobi_der_Ossi said:

Im Fine with any Setting as long its balanced. Tiger and Panther vs 75mm Sherman and 76mm T34 isn't that enjoyable. I whould like to see a Setting first that whould add Vehicles on the Allied Site that whould make the existing vehicles balanced. For example T34-85 or 76mm Sherman so the existing Vehicles can still be used. Bt7 and other early War Vehicles wouldn't change anything on the balancing problems on online servers. I just encountered with my 2 Sherman's on a Tiger and a Panther. We destroyed the Panther with luck but had no chance on the Tiger at that distance. 

I don't see this, but then most of my gaming is against AI. The few times I have played against real players though did leave me with the impression that the game acts different depending on whether you are against a real player, or AI.

 

Do you see the same thing when you drive a Tiger, or a Panther in terms of being invincible? And what happens when you go against AI in a quick mission? I was in a recent Quick Mission session and had trouble killing a Sherman from the side at<500m. I would say the number of times a T34/Sherman knocks me out with one shot in a quick mission is pretty high.

 

But in terms of looking for balance, you might be playing the wrong game. Try increasing your number to 4, or 5 when attacking a Tiger if you want to improve your chances.

 

Found an interesting account on another forum that describes actions between July 5 and 14 1943 where Panthers from the 51st Abt. knocked out 142 tanks with only 11 loses. A clear photo of a a Panthers gun with a T34 burning 1000m away. Not sure about the rules here on mentioning other forum sites, but its that other axis history site if anyone is interested, look for Panzer zitadelle shotouts 1943.

[SCG_judgedeath3]

17 minutes ago, LachenKrieg said:

ry increasing your number to 4, or 5 when attacking a Tiger if you want to improve your chances

Either that or as I would: use the shermans higher speed and the terrain as an advantage, locate the area where the single tiger is: on finnish server the german side only have 1 or max 2 of them, after that they are gone, and use flanking manouvers or wait until the tiger player makes a mistake and then you hit his side, and then that tiger is gone. or use the isu 152 and one shot if aimed well should kill it. Once when I used T-34 on the finnish server I surprised 2 tigers and took them out from the side without them even knowing where I was.

(normaly the german side wont even have the heavy tanks, the normal case they only get Panzer III-IV, at certain front rotations, both sides get access to more tanks, 8/10 there arent any heavy tanks, on finnish server).

IF one use the sherman to drive straight on to the enemy tanks and think the armour will save one, same for tiger: then you will soon be killed.

And I would love barbarossa setting, I seek to relive how it was for both sides, driving a kv-1 and it being like a tiger where panzer IIIs cant do anything to it unless they hit your side, panzer IV even less chance, or the opposite: being in a german tank and see a kv-1 and feel the adrenaline kick and fear for meeting a such dangerous tank, and the reward feeling one get after taking it out. Thats why I love simulators, try to replicate how it was like in that time era, and no balancing,(besides limiting the numbers of certain tanks to recreate how rare they were etc) how it should be ?

Edited February 1, 2021 by SCG_judgedeath3

[LachenKrieg]

TBH, things like the Finnish server and what you guys do on Sundays sound like a lot of fun. I am sure what ever tank you choose to drive, you are going to win some and loose some, but balancing the game would be counter intuitive to being a SIM, because then someone will come along and want the PzIII to be able to knock out KV1's. Where does it end? If its like that, might as well just make one red and one blue tank of the same spec and play tanki. 

[I.JG3_CDRSEABEE]

I just got off the Finnish server. I was in  tiger. Went from back spawn point the Russian rear spawn. 

 

Got damaged by a p38. Fixed it.

 

At the Russian rear spawn, I killed t34s and a sherman with a few AT shells then HE shells while getting shot by t34s. One t34 rammed me. I still kept firing HE. 

 

After I ran out of HE I kept firing the coax. Finally a t34 got behind me a killed me. If I would have had more AT shells I could have sat there all day.

[SCG_SchleiferGER]

My experience with Finnish goes like this:

Usually the German rear bases contain the big cats, but only two per slot. That means two Tigers, Panthers and Ferdinands.

When I reached the frontline with my trusty Porsche, there was only one Tiger left of out of all those heavies. and that one soon (5 mins) got deleted by sideshots from a flanking T-34.

When the heavies are out of the fight they stay out of the fight. (could be wrong here correct me if needed)

 

Also, shouldn't a SU152 just delete a Tiger, Panther from existence? The ballistics on that thing are not nearly as bad as with the SU122 and the effects of the rounds are devastating.

Btw what killed me in the Ferdinand out of all things was a SU122 which just perma-tracked me, while his buddies did the flanking.

 

I would really like to have a Barbarossa 41 expansion. First of all you seldomly see that period in games and second of all the Battle of Dubno-Brody.

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by SCG_SchleiferGER

[JG27_Steini]

21 hours ago, Tobi_der_Ossi said:

One sided Bias helps not to attract Players and Players dont want to play Meatgrinder and drive 4 or 5 Times with a T34 on a single Tiger untill its finaly destroyed.

 

You understand that this is a small company. They had no chance to develop 20+ tanks. Again we all hope to see more tanks. I am happy that no every red player is crying, in fact there are great russian tanker. You also have to take into account that on finish server the german tanks are limited and on most maps not even available. German tanker have to deal with T34 and i have never seen some arguing thatswhy. Deal with the very few Tigre or leave it.

Edited February 2, 2021 by JG27_Steini

[ShampooX]

I came to TC because of insanely unbalanced play in War Thunder which I was on almost daily for over 2 years (I know, get a life right?).  I truly do not believe that "more tanks" are the answer.......I mean they are to a certain point...........but in WT you have tanks from the 60's and 70's playing against King Tigers because that's the only kind of tank that France or Italy or some other "non super power country" has that can compete in the King Tiger "battle rating."  So while more vehicles will attract new players, I came over here to get away form that shit because it can easily get out of control and destroy the game.  Which is exactly whats happening now at WT.   To my way of thinking if the Tiger was around in 1942, and if it kicked everyone's ass at the time, then it should be in the game, the same exact way.  We just have to learn to flank and attack from the side.  And I totally get that people will die in the process, but if that's the way it was back then, then it should be in the game.   Now, is that possible today in TC?  No because there's hardly anyone playing...but I guess the point to my ramble here is that a good tank sim needs to stay true to the year of service of any tank it introduces into the game....and when more player's do come - and they will come to this game I'm convinced - then things might get a little easier on the subject of the Tiger and parity.  The T34-85 was introduced in 1943, so was the SU 85.  They both had the gun that could pen a Tiger frontally.  So maybe in a future update we get a 1943 Map update with these Soviet tanks and maybe the Panther A and Tiger E.  I saw some cool Marder IIIH and Stug models on the game already with a little polish would be fun to play too.  Radzyminan and Studzianki were 2 Eastern Front tank battles that would make cool additions......although they were fought 1944, which is a whole other story because then we get into the Kings and the Jagds.  And so it goes....

Edited February 3, 2021 by 11thPanzer_Pete

[LachenKrieg]

I wouldn't be worried about the developers of TC adding tanks from the 60's and 70's, not at least in the foreseeable future. If I understand correctly, they have been around since 2012, and have remained true to the WWII theme.

 

But I couldn't agree more, as a SIM I would expect that the focus would be on making it as close to the real thing as possible. And while discussions of balance seem to constantly be cropping up, my feeling is that the concept of balancing the game is the bigger threat to the concept of being a SIM.

 

There are already a number of question marks regarding the ballistic/damage model in the SIM, the last thing we need is more balance.

[FTC_Tobi_der_Ossi]

I think you can have still fair matching of vehicles that is realistic. Just imagine a Pacific War Tank Setting. HaGo vs M4 Sherman. It would be a absolute massacre but realistic. So the Fanboys would still live it here. But i still mean a realistic Simulation Setting like the Liberation of Poland or the Soviet Oder Campaign. It would feature still a realistic Tank Setting as it wanted by Simulator Geeks and still have balanced Vehicles on both Sites. Sinde Soviets would have JS2 and T34-85 against German Tiger and Panther Tanks. The Developers would choose their Events that they want to portray wisely. Im sure Pilots would also go mad if they would get a setting whre there are clearly significant differents and only kne site has clearly an advantage at all aspects. 

[LachenKrieg]

25 minutes ago, Tobi_der_Ossi said:

I think you can have still fair matching of vehicles that is realistic. Just imagine a Pacific War Tank Setting. HaGo vs M4 Sherman. It would be a absolute massacre but realistic. So the Fanboys would still live it here. But i still mean a realistic Simulation Setting like the Liberation of Poland or the Soviet Oder Campaign. It would feature still a realistic Tank Setting as it wanted by Simulator Geeks and still have balanced Vehicles on both Sites. Sinde Soviets would have JS2 and T34-85 against German Tiger and Panther Tanks. The Developers would choose their Events that they want to portray wisely. Im sure Pilots would also go mad if they would get a setting whre there are clearly significant differents and only kne site has clearly an advantage at all aspects. 

I get your point and don't disagree, but I think that kind of balanced can be better addressed by the server host either by controlling the number, or the type of vehicles that face off with each other. But your point is well made, and it is no different then someone being in a tank simply to provide target practice for someone else in a plane. There is very little fun in that. But again, this type of balance has to come from the server host him/herself.

Edited February 3, 2021 by LachenKrieg

[FTC_Tobi_der_Ossi]

1 hour ago, LachenKrieg said:

I get your point and don't disagree, but I think that kind of balanced can be better addressed by the server host either by controlling the number, or the type of vehicles that face off with each other. But your point is well made, and it is no different then someone being in a tank simply to provide target practice for someone else in a plane. There is very little fun in that. But again, this type of balance has to come from the server host him/herself.

Same with Me262? I haven't flown it once in online since it was nearly allways taken. Same with Tigers on Finnish. Oh you joined lare? Your problem. Have fun with Panzer4. Giving equal Tanks to each Site like Kw85 or Js2 or even T34-85 would allow more Tigers and Panthers on German Site.so People could actually play what they want. And to be honest. Most of the Wehraboos bought TC because of the Cats. 

[LachenKrieg]

18 minutes ago, Tobi_der_Ossi said:

Same with Me262? I haven't flown it once in online since it was nearly allways taken. Same with Tigers on Finnish. Oh you joined lare? Your problem. Have fun with Panzer4. Giving equal Tanks to each Site like Kw85 or Js2 or even T34-85 would allow more Tigers and Panthers on German Site.so People could actually play what they want. And to be honest. Most of the Wehraboos bought TC because of the Cats. 

TBH, it must be difficult for the people hosting servers to find the formula that makes everyone happy with a game that is meant to portray realistic battle. In truth, imbalance is the hallmark of war. Very few battles are ever fought with the goal of achieving balance in mind. But I get your point and agree, on a multi-player server in a game like this, there can be big differences from one player to the next. And that can take the fun out of it real fast.   

[BlitzPig_EL]

When I set up a server for the BlitzPigs and our friends I try to have mostly historical matchups that still allow both sides to accomplish mission goals, and are fun for all that play.  The sim has enough different aircraft, and tanks, that make this a not too difficult task.

[LachenKrieg]

1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

When I set up a server for the BlitzPigs and our friends I try to have mostly historical matchups that still allow both sides to accomplish mission goals, and are fun for all that play.  The sim has enough different aircraft, and tanks, that make this a not too difficult task.

That's good to know. Can anyone join, or is it just for your group? I think the point @Tobi_der_Ossi was trying to make was that some of the servers limit certain vehicles to try and make things fair, and in doing so it creates the scenario where there can be big differences from one player to the next in terms of the amount of armor protection and firepower.

[JG27_Steini]

13 hours ago, Tobi_der_Ossi said:

Same with Me262? I haven't flown it once in online since it was nearly allways taken. Same with Tigers on Finnish. Oh you joined lare? Your problem. Have fun with Panzer4. Giving equal Tanks to each Site like Kw85 or Js2 or even T34-85 would allow more Tigers and Panthers on German Site.so People could actually play what they want. And to be honest. Most of the Wehraboos bought TC because of the Cats. 

 

Go and ask Jason for more tanks. We can not help you here. In fact you can see that people have different wishes for new tanks. Since the first arriving of IL2 20 years ago there have been advantages/disadvantages on both sides. Try to shoot down a IL2 with an standard "109 F2" is it was comon then and now. It is the flying version of a Tiger. TC is a very new module and you have to wait for the next ones as we all do.

[moustache]

On 04/02/2021 at 11:18, JG27_Steini said:

C'est la version volante d'un tigre. TC est un tout nouveau module et vous devez attendre les suivants comme nous le faisons tous.

 

not sure to understand... i pay for a game and must wait a second game to see all bug and error corrected?

[JG27_Steini]

18 hours ago, moustache said:

 

not sure to understand... i pay for a game and must wait a second game to see all bug and error corrected?

 

I wrote about new tanks. Bugs needs to be fixed. Many features (smoke,infantry) are missing in the current game. But new tanks (and the desire of balance) is a new product.

[moustache]

Oooh, ok, sorry, misunderstanding on my part... thank you