Guest deleted@83466 Posted December 22, 2020 Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) Quote Way to paint all Canadians with 1 paintbrush. Well even the one "good" Canadian that Trupobaw refers to is a total Whackjob Nutbag. So if the shoe fits, Oh Canadiens, wear it. ??? Edit: All the Canadians I like just happen to be Geese. Edited December 22, 2020 by SeaSerpent
=J18=CCC Posted December 22, 2020 Author Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) Hello to all! One of the things I had to expect, is the "diversity of replies" Good Job so far. Before it will get inevitably "more interesting", I wanted to wish everyone, as happy as possible Hoildays to come. Stay healthy and calm CCC ---------- One more thing towards some "supporters". Thank you! I don't mind being flamed here. Let it happen and / or be careful not to get caught in the crossfire to come. PP CCC Edited December 22, 2020 by cpt_chaos_canada 2
Guest deleted@83466 Posted December 22, 2020 Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) Chaos_Canada, I'll just be really honest here and tell you what I think about your initiative. It reminds me of the Jehovah's Witnesses coming to your door and preaching to you... As you can see here, all of the "enemies" here trade sarcastic barbs. They shoot little arrows at each other. When somebody crosses a line into territory that violates a boundary, people tell each other off. It's how it should be. Sure, the FC/WW1 community has more than it's share of rancor, but who are you to save it? Seems pretty arrogant, like you think you are capable of more love, compassion, forgiveness, and understanding than everyone else here. Maybe you truly are, but in making a thread like this, you really diminish all the genuine and necessary battles that sometimes need to be fought to preserve fact, reality, and sanity. And I mean, the heart shaped insignia...there are lots of dummies here, and plenty of people who haven't matured beyond Junior High School, sure, but really? Edited December 22, 2020 by SeaSerpent
BMA_Hellbender Posted December 22, 2020 Posted December 22, 2020 3 hours ago, SeaSerpent said: Maybe you truly are, but in making a thread like this, you really diminish all the genuine and necessary battles that sometimes need to be fought to preserve fact, reality, and sanity. And I mean, the heart shaped insignia...there are lots of dummies here, and plenty of people who haven't matured beyond Junior High School, sure, but really? Counterpoint: we're all grown ass men wasting time on a video game forum. Nothing here is of any consequence. The hearts are dopey and the message is beyond naive in 2020. It took exactly one month for SWS to become a toxic wasteland. This place still has a semblance of decency at least, mostly because the people here have matured just a little bit past peepee and poopoo. And if he is troll, I'm not even mad, this is the kind of trolling I like. I will proudly show my small, pink PP to the world. #smolppproblems 3
Guest deleted@83466 Posted December 22, 2020 Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) I'm not sure it's a Counterpoint. If the OP wants to make the world a better place, he should donate to a children's cancer hospital or a pet shelter. Here though...yeah, it's just a video game forum. My reactions to this thread partially stem from the fact that I'm not a big fan of proselytizers (unless I'm the one doing it, of course, lol ?) Edited December 22, 2020 by SeaSerpent
ST_Catchov Posted December 23, 2020 Posted December 23, 2020 People are people and will do what they do. You can't stop that with an unenforceable idealistic request lol like some kind of 60's hippy thing. If things get too out of hand, the mods step in and close/remove threads and/or posts. That's why they exist. End of story. But before they do take action it's usually mighty entertaining. I'd hate to lose that. And I never put anyone on an ignore list or anything. That seems a little lame to me. As for online MP chat, well you takes your chances lol. If you act like a dick, prepare to be treated like a dick. Sorry Capitan, no PP slogan for me.
76SQN-FatherTed Posted December 23, 2020 Posted December 23, 2020 18 hours ago, ST_Catchov said: As for online MP chat, well you takes your chances lol. If you act like a dick, prepare to be treated like a dick. Yeah, and to be fair I see very little aggro in the chat - the occasional ram- or shoulder-shooting-complaint - but no sledging, or any of the sort of toxic language which you might see in a mainstream game.
SCG_Wulfe Posted December 23, 2020 Posted December 23, 2020 (edited) I don't know why I feel the urge to say anything in this thread but... ya... this is a game, there are bigger fish to fry and things to worry about. People are getting far too soft. Should we all aim to treat each other well... yep. What should we do when people don't treat us well?... get over it and move on. Frankly, I defeat my own point that this doesn't matter by spending time responding to it. That said, I think wasting even more time dwelling on perceived wrongs, even in a weird active opposition kind of way, does more harm than good. Worry about the way you handle yourself. Call out BS when it's warranted. But, no need to organize or create factions of 'virtue' in this way. Yep, those are my end of workday thoughts... take em or leave em. Edited December 23, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe 4
Todt_Von_Oben Posted December 24, 2020 Posted December 24, 2020 Gentlemen, In all real-world societies, there are those who either cannot or will not behave socially; that's why we have laws, police departments, courts, and prisons. But in cyberspace, those societal checks and balances are absent; allowing societally-deviant personalities to run amok wreaking havoc for their own enjoyment. Resultantly, cyber-bullies abound online and I've never seen an effective way to eliminate them. Trolls disrupt seeking attention and don't care if the genre fails because they didn't invest the time or money it took to create it; and I've watched that same selfish quirk in online human nature destroy or diminish every one of about two-dozen groups I've studied over the past 20 years. In that regard, this forum is not unique; if it's a little more extreme in comparison to most I've seen then possibly that's (to some degree) because the war theme is a Petri dish wherein the ability to project hostility without penalty thrives. Seen in that light, A/C sims are a cyber-bully breeding ground. Many lament the problem and seek a resolution: a serum for cyber toxicity. At this time in the evolution of humanity, there is none. A man may live long enough to understand why he should no longer act like a boy; and a boy may be wise enough to understand why he should try to think and behave like a man; but not always. And in cyberspace, we're stuck with those who just don't get it. In the real world as in cyberspace: I try to be considerate of others while avoiding the inconsiderate like the plague; not out of fear but out of respect for myself and others. I learned to stay out of chat in MP and if it looks like someone's trolling one of my threads, I don't reply. "He who argues with a fool is a fool" as the old saw sings. Trolls are toxic narcissists; ignoring them is like dousing a vampire with holy water or setting it out in the sun. Best thing I've found to do with an online troll is the same as I'd do in real life with a child who is acting-up for attention; I leave him alone with his pain; hoping that, in quiet introspection, he comes to understand where he's making his mistake and learns to avoid it. The odds of that succeeding with a genuinely toxic narcissist (someone who scores high on the NPD Index test) are very low, however. Generally, one really can't teach a child or a troll much of anything; but they can learn. All we can do is give them some solitary time to think about it, and hope they see the light. But in this particular case: if that don't work, shoot him and move on. Prosit! 1
Cynic_Al Posted December 24, 2020 Posted December 24, 2020 8 hours ago, Todt_Von_Oben said: But in cyberspace, those societal checks and balances are absent; allowing societally-deviant personalities to run amok wreaking havoc for their own enjoyment. Resultantly, cyber-bullies abound online and I've never seen an effective way to eliminate them. Any server worthy of the description will provide a feedback system, allowing undesirables to be reported, verified and if necessary excluded.
Zooropa_Fly Posted December 24, 2020 Posted December 24, 2020 Anyone being 'bullied' online is consenting to it. If you can't stand the heat - switch off the computer. Again - server providers do so at their own time and cost. So they can run their servers however the hell they want - as long as the game owners allow them to. Participation on a server is voluntary. If you don't like the way a server is run - fly on another. There's people all over the world losing everything right now because they're being prohibited from working. This is a computer game - and in this particular niche environment 99% of us are big and ugly enough, surely ? I moderated NFF over in RoF during Euro daytime for a few years. You'll always get the occasional nutter - but in all the years of flying ww1 I wouldn't say there's ever been a major problem in this regard. S! 1
Todt_Von_Oben Posted December 24, 2020 Posted December 24, 2020 (edited) But you know, thinking about it a day later, I haven't really seen much of what I could call bad behavior in FC MP. The uncool stuff I recall (stuff that might put people off and cost the Devs revenue) was actually back when we were flying ROF. Lately, I've been making an effort to fly MP a little every day or so; flying the Zoo and Flugpark all I'm seeing out of other players is a class act. Everybody seems to be trying to do their best. I'm seeing good flying, good shooting, and (best of all) a lot of spontaneous teamwork. To me, that's the best part of it; when it just clicks. That's how the infamous Know Sense Parachute Team got its name. Steve Haley said of Canopy Relative Work, "You've got to know and sense what the other guy is doing." Actually, that's true about any kind of formation flying. You've got to know and sense. So it's the same in a close dogfight. When you've got a guy automatically covering your back from above; or he's close on your wing and you're both blasting away at that distant, fleeing target and it runs smooth as glass; that's nice. You're up there with people who are every bit as good as you are or better; and when an action comes together extemporaneously like that, it's like jamming with another guy who really knows how to play the guitar. You don't have to say anything; it just happens because you're both on the same page to begin with. That's frikkin' music, man. Salute! Edited December 24, 2020 by Todt_Von_Oben 2
Zooropa_Fly Posted December 24, 2020 Posted December 24, 2020 I think it also needs to be said that I'd be ecstatic to have 2 unruly, team-killin', foul mouthed pilots on my server. Because they'd be 2 pilots. S!
=J18=CCC Posted January 19, 2021 Author Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) Hello everyone, hope you had a smooth transition into 2021. Here is a bit more information about how thîs topic came to be. A first drafted Idea about a petition like approach was abandoned because the small groúp of people that helped creating the topic voted for a “less bossy” What if ------------- questionaire style. Although the content in the petition seem to be spot on, it could have offended all those who are in general performing in game, in chats or in forums very decent from the start. That is thankfully a great majority. However here is the text, so you can judge again for yourselves, just as the whole ”What if” style requires. Quoted Text: Politer Piloting Petition Please spare a bit of your time reading this post and judge for yourself if you should sign this petition! Around November 2020 a small group of forum members got in touch to discuss the current conversations situation in regards of the ROF Forrum, the ROF in game chats, and the Teamspeak com software which is used/setup by the multiplayer servers. After some more research through existing threads it became clear that any attempt to create or re-create a “politer piloting” campaign in ROF alone would certainly fail. One has to reach out to the communities in ROF and FC alike. ... and here is the train of thoughts that has lead to asking anyone's participation in creating and signing a “Politer Piloting” petition. Usually a petition is meant to be presented to a superior entity, like the company manager you work for , the Government(oops bad word ) and such. However the petition in mind would be aimed at all members of the ROF/FC communities. The founders, the active members as well as any new and future members. ... Any hobby that one chooses to enter should be performed in an enjoyable way. Flying/using/playing a WWI flight simulator is considered a “niche” of the greater gaming hobby. A multiplayer community can be striving by sharing all activities either in game, in communication software or in the forums. But it can also become easily undermined/corrupted when people forget that it is just a hobby, a game, even when it includes a degree of competition and therefore some necessary “fighting” spirit. When people forget about the above, because of over eagerness, enthusiasm or passion for ROF/FC, some unfortunate human tendencies will and have show,shown. No matter if one is a troll, controller, sophisticated nobleman, tough cookie or any other type in his real life; we all have the tendency to show ourselves after a while in the community. That right there is the issue that opens the door for miscommunications, false sense of lecturing needs, bullying and more. The community will split many ways and is unable to unconditionally enjoy the “same fun” in the same game. First recommendation: Keep your personal way out of all community activities and simply enjoy and share with many others the same interest for the time that your here. It's everyones chance to escape the real life and it's challenges for a while. A healthy community is also a possible reason for the developers of the game to “do away” with a bit less profit margin, for it is reassuring that there own enthusiasm is being appreciated. ===================================================== Outdated section due to FC2 announcement : At this stage, November 2020, it looks like all the naging and impatience, the demanding of fixing “errors” in the game, the fighting amongst members, the fighting amongst squadrons has discouraged the developers/owners to even look into a future development of especially a new FC Flying Circus volume. ====================================================== Please help to turn this all around into a “family friendly acting community”, in which you can shoot down your friends to your hearts content. Quote end. As a result of this started topic in ROF and FC i have had very interesting concerned and encouraging PM conversations. Thanks for that! A lot of people were “warning” me about a certain group of bullies that will raise havoc everytime someone posts a “Call of reasonable behavior”. I can totally agree with that concern! All one has to do is reread the replies in the FC version of this Topic. The “Group” proofed the point with ridiculing, offending, smartass bullying attempts in the replies. The difference, IMHO, is that usually any call to reason post in another topic gets lost after such “activities”. While this topic may be the one where people can voice their “frustrations” about the bullies. What if: they could be silenced or better stopped acting that way. It all started in ROF and is continued in FC, just a bit less obvious because the admins are stricter. Here is an example of a very serious topic about cheating in ROF. It is just sad how a very serious issue became undermined by foul language in personal attack's. Community Policy on Cheating https://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/51553-community-policy-cheating/page-2 I want to point out one more issue for now: Experienced members flying under “ghost names” in ROF. It would make me feel better if a “renown” ACE keeps shooting me down.? CCC Edited January 19, 2021 by cpt_chaos_canada
Guest deleted@83466 Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) You appear to be a very new guy in Rise of Flight, and while you might be on Steam, my guess is that you do not own FC or any other IL-2 module. How many of these guys in this community that you insist on lecturing, or pass judgement on, can you claim to actually "know"? I suspect you've been on comms with almost no one you are addressing here, or at least for no extended length of time, flown with or against very few, and your perspective on vintage disputes you might be reading about either here on the RoF forums is very clearly from an after-the-fact perspective. In other words, you literally haven't the knowledge, the perspective, or the moral authority to create some kind of new-age, quasi-religious "virtue cult" within the WW1 community. Come to think of it, who does? I would call BS on this kind of spam, even if it were posted by a 10 year/5000 hour veteran. Looks a whole like what they call "virtue signaling". Edited January 19, 2021 by SeaSerpent
DD_Arthur Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 You’re bringing up that thread here?? Wow, you really are Captain Chaos!
=J18=CCC Posted January 19, 2021 Author Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, SeaSerpent said: You appear to be a very new guy in Rise of Flight, and while you might be on Steam, my guess is that you do not own FC or any other IL-2 module. How many of these guys in this community that you insist on lecturing, or pass judgement on, can you claim to actually "know"? I suspect you've been on comms with almost no one you are addressing here, or at least for no extended length of time, flown with or against very few, and your perspective on vintage disputes you might be reading about either here on the RoF forums is very clearly from an after-the-fact perspective. In other words, you literally haven't the knowledge, the perspective, or the moral authority to create some kind of new-age, quasi-religious "virtue cult" within the WW1 community. Come to think of it, who does? I would call BS on this kind of spam, even if it were posted by a 10 year/5000 hour veteran. Looks a whole like what they call "virtue signaling". =============== PP 1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said: You’re bringing up that thread here?? Wow, you really are Captain Chaos! Well, yes it's yesterdays news. There is however a slow but constant stream of new players to ROF/FC, like myself. So we are exited to go play in this new to us sandbox and we realize that something smells wrong on the side lines. It's like constantly covering up some cat pub to keep the sandbox enjoyable, yet allowing the cats to keep doing their thing. I will not do the clean up on my own, but try to raise a bit awareness first. Hope you'll help. CCC Edited January 19, 2021 by cpt_chaos_canada
ST_Catchov Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 I'll give it a go Capt. I'm gonna try to be f$%*in' nicer to all you c%&ts from now on. 6
DD_Arthur Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 47 minutes ago, cpt_chaos_canada said: we us we 'Fraid I find all you guys who come here and claim some sort of constituency deluded and laughable
Guest deleted@83466 Posted January 19, 2021 Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) As quoted by Captain Chaos: 3 hours ago, SeaSerpent said: You appear to be a very new guy in Rise of Flight, and while you might be on Steam, my guess is that you do not own FC or any other IL-2 module. How many of these guys in this community that you insist on lecturing, or pass judgement on, can you claim to actually "know"? I suspect you've been on comms with almost no one you are addressing here, or at least for no extended length of time, flown with or against very few, and your perspective on vintage disputes you might be reading about either here on the RoF forums is very clearly from an after-the-fact perspective. In other words, you literally haven't the knowledge, the perspective, or the moral authority to create some kind of new-age, quasi-religious "virtue cult" within the WW1 community. Come to think of it, who does? I would call BS on this kind of spam, even if it were posted by a 10 year/5000 hour veteran. Looks a whole like what they call "virtue signaling". =============== PP So, your crusade is going so well that you are now appending fake signatures to other people's posts when you quote them, to further your agenda? Quote There is however a slow but constant stream of new players to ROF/FC, like myself. So we are exited to go play in this new to us sandbox and we realize that something smells wrong on the side lines. It's like constantly covering up some cat pub to keep the sandbox enjoyable, yet allowing the cats to keep doing their thing. I will not do the clean up on my own, but try to raise a bit awareness first. Hope you'll help. CCC Have you ever heard the saying "We have met the enemy, and he is us."? You come here from a place where your only "insight" on anything in this community is provided by guys like the doubly perma-banned Plank, and you don't even realize that maybe one of the problems in FC is guys like you, who don't own a single IL-2 module, have almost no familiarity with anyone, and frankly possess no standing of any sort whatsoever, coming in here and treating it like a missionary project. Edited January 19, 2021 by SeaSerpent
=J18=CCC Posted January 20, 2021 Author Posted January 20, 2021 24 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said: As quoted by Captain Chaos: So, your crusade is going so well that you are now appending fake signatures to other people's posts when you quote them, to further your agenda? Have you ever heard the saying "We have met the enemy, and he is us."? You come here from a place where your only "insight" on anything in this community is provided by guys like the doubly perma-banned Plank, and you don't even realize that maybe one of the problems in FC is guys like you, who don't own a single IL-2 module, have almost no familiarity with anyone, and frankly possess no standing of any sort whatsoever, coming in here and treating it like a missionary project. PP
J2_Trupobaw Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 15 hours ago, SeaSerpent said: As quoted by Captain Chaos: So, your crusade is going so well that you are now appending fake signatures to other people's posts when you quote them, to further your agenda? Have you ever heard the saying "We have met the enemy, and he is us."? You come here from a place where your only "insight" on anything in this community is provided by guys like the doubly perma-banned Plank, and you don't even realize that maybe one of the problems in FC is guys like you, who don't own a single IL-2 module, have almost no familiarity with anyone, and frankly possess no standing of any sort whatsoever, coming in here and treating it like a missionary project. New guys tend to try and reinvent the wheel, Serpent. Like this guy who tried to re-vitalise RoF with a wordpress page... It's the order of things. Just like old hands trying to explain to them they are wasting time (hint: they both do...)
76SQN-FatherTed Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 19 hours ago, cpt_chaos_canada said: https://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/51553-community-policy-cheating/page-2 Wow, I'd forgotten about all that. I used to love those popcorn threads
unreasonable Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 Just now, =CfC=FatherTed said: Wow, I'd forgotten about all that. I used to love those popcorn threads Me too. Best thing about MP. Seriously though, I fail to see how dragging up ancient animosities, of which most new FC players may be completely unaware, will in any way improve the manners of participants either in MP or in the forum. Indeed, if I wanted to make them worse, that is how I would start. "I am a better person than you" badges could also work: bound to cause resentment and division. If the OP wants a more polite society, his best bet is to set an example by being polite.
BMA_Hellbender Posted January 20, 2021 Posted January 20, 2021 Yeah best not to drag late stage RoF forum toxicity in here. PP! 1 1
Recommended Posts