Ivan left ousidde in the Cold

[jollyjack]

Is this a bug or is it just Ivan who forgot the backdoor key? Seems that the Wodka barrel is kept warm inside instead ....

 

[LukeFF]

What are you talking about?

[jollyjack]

6 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

What are you talking about?

 

Is this normal, or a special IL2 version for Wodka barrel transports?

 

[Guest deleted@210880]

If I recall correctly from a book I read, the gunner in the earlier IL2 was also actually enitrely outside the armoured cockpit area, some pilots alledgedly prefered to not have a gunner position because they felt bad when so many died as a result.

[AndyJWest]

Yup. Gunner positions were initially added to single-seater IL-2s as a field modification. Cut a hole in the fuselage, add a simple canvas sling for a seat, and fit a gun mount. Crude, but better than nothing, at least from the pilot's perspective. Later IL-2s had proper gunner positions, though it was never a particularly pleasant place to be...

[Enceladus828]

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

though it was never a particularly pleasant place to be...

Just like the cockpits on WW1 planes.

BTW, that is where the term cockpit originated from as at the turn of the 20th century in Europe, there would be Cock fights in which people would watch these birds fight in a place that was known as the cockpit, and was a small tight area where stress and tension would occur. Then in WW1, the place where the pilot would sit was called the cockpit amongst pilots.

 

Learned that on a show called, America's Secret Slang. It also explained where the term, socked-in originated from.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

2 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

 add a simple canvas sling for a seat,

 

Huh... I thought the sling was used for a seatbelt and the gunner sat in the tail section somewhat like one would sit in a kayak.  

[AndyJWest]

2 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Huh... I thought the sling was used for a seatbelt and the gunner sat in the tail section somewhat like one would sit in a kayak.  

 

I think you'd be a bit too low to use the gun like that. Though you'd be out of the breeze. ?

 

The IL-2 gunners in the 'old' IL-2 series used to complain loudly if you went into negative G. I wonder whether it was because they weren't strapped in? ?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

 

I think you'd be a bit too low to use the gun like that. Though you'd be out of the breeze. ?

 

The IL-2 gunners in the 'old' IL-2 series used to complain loudly if you went into negative G. I wonder whether it was because they weren't strapped in? ?

 

Lol, I remember that.    !!! "What are you doing !? Stop that! " !!!   ?

 

You might be right but, it seems to me that sitting on a canvas belt, with your hands on the gun and bracing yourself against sudden plane movements with you legs would cause more deaths from being thrown out than being shot at. Of course, real world Il-2 piloting was much different than the Cirque du Soleil maneuvers that we often see in-game but, even so, I would imagine that things could get quite wild unexpectedly in combat.  

I do remember seeing a YT video of a 90 years old IL-2 veteran revisiting his exact plane that had made it into a museum.  Even though he had lost some height because of his age, the plane is quite large.  When they helped him into the cockpit, he could barely see over the dash panel. 

I could also see that the control column was huge/very tall compared to him .  So, maybe you're right and the back section would be too deep to sit with the belt over one's lap instead of sitting on the belt. 

 

IDK if inspecting the external view of the plane in a QMB would give insight to how the Devs a) learned the strap was used or b) think it was used.  Maybe, I'll take a look at it a bit later.   

 

[AndyJWest]

The 'seat' shown in the in-game IL-2 field mod version is just a strap fixed near the top of the cut-out. Doesn't look very solid.

 

I don't know how much historical data the developers had to go on. Probably not a lot, given the circumstances. 

 

[BladeMeister]

Hmmm, more investigation is needed. Now you gents have me interested. Surely the tailgunner didn't sit on that strap the whole time. That makes my butt cheeks uncomfortable just thinking about it. And no restraint or seat belt, whatever the correct term may be?

 

S!Blade<><

Edited December 8, 2020 by BladeMeister

[RedKestrel]

18 minutes ago, BladeMeister said:

Hmmm, more investigation is needed. Now you gents have me interested. Surely the tailgunner didn't sit on that strap the whole time. That makes my butt cheeks uncortable just thinking about it. And no restraint or seat belt, whatever the correct term may be?

 

S!Blade<><

Considering how dangerous the ride was, I just assume you could cling onto it with the fear-inspired strength of your pucker. 

 

[AndyJWest]

To avoid any confusion, when I initially suggested that the gunner wasn't strapped in, it wasn't based on anything I'd read anywhere, just an explanation for why the gunner in the old game complained so much. If I had to guess, I'd think it more likely they had some sort of harness.

 

I wonder if there is a photo somewhere showing any of this? There are photo's showing the conversion from outside (e.g. here ), but a quick search doesn't bring up any showing the seat, or a harness.

[Rothko]

jesus the bent metal is rough even for soviet standards

[LukeFF]

19 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

Hmmm, more investigation is needed. Now you gents have me interested. Surely the tailgunner didn't sit on that strap the whole time. That makes my butt cheeks uncomfortable just thinking about it. And no restraint or seat belt, whatever the correct term may be?

 

S!Blade<><

 

18 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

Considering how dangerous the ride was, I just assume you could cling onto it with the fear-inspired strength of your pucker.

 

18 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

To avoid any confusion, when I initially suggested that the gunner wasn't strapped in, it wasn't based on anything I'd read anywhere, just an explanation for why the gunner in the old game complained so much. If I had to guess, I'd think it more likely they had some sort of harness.

 

I wonder if there is a photo somewhere showing any of this? There are photo's showing the conversion from outside (e.g. here ), but a quick search doesn't bring up any showing the seat, or a harness.

 

It was probably not much more than a canvas sling on which they sat. While not exactly the same thing, our battalion's gun trucks for the road march up to Iraq from Kuwait in March 2004 (seen below) were fitted with "seats" for the gun turrets that were really nothing more than a couple of canvas belts.

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by LukeFF

[Danziger]

I sat on a nylon sling for a year in the gun hatches of an M1113 and M1151. Sometimes they had an attachment with a wider pad. Most of the time not. And this was in the modern future times of the 21st century wealthiest capitalist military of the Earth. 

 

The last time I went for 15 months and we got rid of the hummers for new fangled state of the art million dollar each MRAP trucks. I got a nice full body harness that latched to a little seatbelt pulley in the floor below so I wouldn't be thrown out of the hatch when we rolled over. However, the seat was still the same strap.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Danziger

[firdimigdi]

Sarge over here doesn't seem to much like that sling:

 

https://albumwar2.com/air-gunner-of-the-soviet-attack-aircraft-il-2-sergeant-p-shulyakov/

 

His looks a bit on the posh side too, wider section with padding, probably the Mk2 sling.

Of course it was probably only used while travelling not while crouching as low as possible, aiming and tracking targets.

[Reggie_Mental]

On 12/7/2020 at 8:19 PM, jollyjack said:

Is this a bug or is it just Ivan who forgot the backdoor key? Seems that the Wodka barrel is kept warm inside instead ....

 

Doesn't matter. He'll be dead soon anyway...

[jollyjack]

Wasn't there a film called the Dogs of War? Seems these guys really had that job.

Well it seems compliments again for the IL2 dev crew and their ever more amazing modeling.

Now i wonder what the toilet seats look like inside a GB Ju52 plane, or even a MS FlightSim Boingg 747.