Couple of questions- G-forces, engine limits, damage

[Catgut]

Hi all, another old flight simmer coming back, having not touched one since Il-2:1946 and RoF circa 2010. I've been playing a lot of Flying Circus and BoS/BoK in VR over the last few weeks, really enjoying how VR has transformed the experience. Most things have felt natural and familiar, but I'm still getting to grips with some of the new functionality. I did a bit of searching and found handy information but still have a couple of questions:

 

1. Is there any reliable indicator of whether a turn is causing fatigue? As someone with no piloting experience IRL, I sometimes have no idea if I'm doing a gentle turn or pulling 3Gs and gradually wearing myself out. Or am I only becoming fatigued when I get the audible cues (coughing, strained breathing)?
    
2. Is the continuous heavy breathing an accurate representation of fatigue? There have been a couple of times in SP I've relaxed and leveled out until the breathing subsided, but once I re-entered maneuver I found myself blacking out quickly. If not, is there any way to tell how fatigued I am? Does it permanently reduce until I complete the mission, or do I get back to full capability if I wait?
    
3. I understand that engines are modeled with 'timers', and that when a timer is exceeded engine damage can result- what I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is the idea of these timers being independent. Supposing I'm flying a plane with 15 minutes 'combat' and 1 minute 'emergency', if I've been in 'combat' mode for 14 minutes 59 seconds, it sounds like if I stay there another two seconds I start risking damage, but if I throttle up to full power I've now got another full minute. This feels very strange, is my understanding correct?
    
4. Is there anything peculiar to the high-caliber cannons or their ammunition as far as damage, or Bf-109 tail durability? I've tried the P-39 and, a couple of times, watched those big 37s slap into the tail of a Bf-109 with no apparent damage. Engine/cockpit/wing root hits yield instant effects, but it seems like rounds that go into the tail (particularly during a low-aspect tail chase) don't seem to do much. Any idea what might be going on?

Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can share- I'll probably be seeing you folks online once I start to suck less.

[D3adCZE]

Afaik the 109 tail was too brittle, falling off at the slight damage. The issue has not been resolved yet, so the structural integrity of the tail has been buffed. If I am wrong, feel free to correct me.

[oc2209]

1 hour ago, Catgut said:

 I did a bit of searching and found handy information but still have a couple of questions:

 

Welcome back!

 

I'll try to answer these to the best of my knowledge.

 

1) There is a little white wedge under your G indicator when you turn your HUD on. As your endurance depletes, the white will empty and slowly refill. When it's empty, you will black out much faster than when it's full or half-full. If you aren't watching your HUD, there are other ways to tell how many Gs you're pulling. For one thing, speed. If you enter any kind of maneuver over 200 MPH, you will pull a fair amount of G. Nearing 300 MPH makes the G effect much worse. Sustained turns at approximately 3.5 G will also tire you out relatively quickly. You just need to develop a feel, through experience, for how far to push the envelope. You can, for example, yank the stick into a tight turn at ~300 MPH and, if you haven't done much maneuvering lately, you will only lightly grey out at the screen's edges. But try this a few more times in quick succession? Bye-bye.

 

2) Answered this question above. The time to refill endurance isn't terribly long. A couple minutes or so to partially recover it.

 

3) I think combat power's timer takes precedence over emergency power. So no, you can't run combat to 14:59 and then crank up emergency for another few minutes. I've tried this, and it doesn't work that way.

 

4) Where are you striking the tail? Because it's a waste to aim at anything besides the vertical or horizontal stabilizers. The P-39's cannon doesn't carry AP, so all you'll do by firing into the tail from below the stabilizers is... well, nothing I guess. I'm not arguing that this is perfectly realistic, but that's how it seems to work in the game. You'd be better off trying to kill the pilot with your AP .50 ammo, or try to blow the rudder/stab. off with your cannon.

[Catgut]

3 hours ago, oc2209 said:

 

1) There is a little white wedge under your G indicator when you turn your HUD on. As your endurance depletes, the white will empty and slowly refill. When it's empty, you will black out much faster than when it's full or half-full. If you aren't watching your HUD, there are other ways to tell how many Gs you're pulling. For one thing, speed. If you enter any kind of maneuver over 200 MPH, you will pull a fair amount of G. Nearing 300 MPH makes the G effect much worse. Sustained turns at approximately 3.5 G will also tire you out relatively quickly. You just need to develop a feel, through experience, for how far to push the envelope. You can, for example, yank the stick into a tight turn at ~300 MPH and, if you haven't done much maneuvering lately, you will only lightly grey out at the screen's edges. But try this a few more times in quick succession? Bye-bye.

 

2) Answered this question above. The time to refill endurance isn't terribly long. A couple minutes or so to partially recover it.

 

3) I think combat power's timer takes precedence over emergency power. So no, you can't run combat to 14:59 and then crank up emergency for another few minutes. I've tried this, and it doesn't work that way.

 

4) Where are you striking the tail? Because it's a waste to aim at anything besides the vertical or horizontal stabilizers. The P-39's cannon doesn't carry AP, so all you'll do by firing into the tail from below the stabilizers is... well, nothing I guess. I'm not arguing that this is perfectly realistic, but that's how it seems to work in the game. You'd be better off trying to kill the pilot with your AP .50 ammo, or try to blow the rudder/stab. off with your cannon.

 

1) and 2) Oops. I've been flying with HUD off, because with VR + VR zoom I can finally play the game without icons or HUD as play aids. Sounds like I should probably try a bit with HUD on so I can get a better feel for how the endurance depletes. At the very least I'm learning not to get into endless looping turn fights with Bf-109s so it's less of an issue than it was.

 

3) Okay, that's what I thought was reasonable, but I could have sworn I read somewhere that the timers are separate. Maybe I misunderstood. There aren't any in-game warnings besides technochat that you've passed a timer, right?

 

4) Oh, this wasn't aiming for the tail, just incidental tail hits while I try to re-learn deflection, and seeing 37s just go puff on the tail had me scratching my head a bit. I used to mostly fly late-war German planes in 1946 and got used to fighters disintegrating when they take a high-caliber cannon hit to the tail or wings; I'm now having to learn how to target engine/cockpit rather than just go for hits anywhere on the plane. The Yak-1 in particular has been a good learning experience because if I can't get the engine or pilot, I run out of ammo before the 109 goes down.

 

Responses much appreciated.

 

[oc2209]

3 hours ago, Catgut said:

Responses much appreciated.

 

 

Regarding question 3, yes, I think that's the only way to know. Then again, I'm not an expert at manually running engines anyway, so other people might know of ways to tell how close an engine is to blowing up.

 

About question 4: ha, yeah, in 1946 I recall pretty routinely severing Hellcats in two, usually behind the cockpit. In reality I doubt any American plane could be broken in half so easily. By contrast, in this version of IL-2 I don't recall ever once seeing any plane lose its tail in flight. I have totally destroyed the horizontal and vertical stabilizers with a Yak-9T's 37mm, however. Which is a more powerful round than the P-39's cannon.

 

Anyway, I suggest the following angle of attack in a Yak:

 

 

What I'm doing here, is forcing the enemy AI to slow down as it always does when it wants you to overshoot it. This is accomplished simply by out-turning the AI; once it knows it can't shake you in a turn, it will try to lose you by luring you into an overshoot. This is on Ace, by the way. While it's wiggling and rocking back and forth bleeding speed, I cut my throttle and drift a moment. As the 109 passes in front of me at the proper angle, I fire with the intent to kill the pilot. You will notice that from this angle, I'm bypassing most of the tail. The bullets and shells are entering from an oblique angle directly behind the pilot, absolutely assuring his death.

 

 

In my opinion, the Yak-9's (regular, not T in this case) iron sights are great for killing pilots. Maintaining full sight-picture at all times helps my timing greatly. You can try to do this same move of mine in other Yaks (as I've tried), but the Yak-9 is simply better than the others, and a murder machine with this very specialized tactic.

Edited December 5, 2020 by oc2209

[oc2209]

Sorry to clutter up the thread with something else, but here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KXT3Bqu6-U

 

That's my personal track, from which the above screens were taken. Watching something is usually more informative than listening to it described. Unfortunately you can't see my HUD in the video, but you can hear the whooshing sound during the high-speed turn right after the clip starts. It's not the same as a stall buffet sound. The intense whoosh kind of tells you you're pulling some Gs around the 4+ range. At least I think it does.

 

Some other points of interest:

 

I don't use head tracking. I botched the first attack because the 109 was obscured by my armored windscreen frame, and I was misaligned to kill the pilot as he crossed in front of me. I included this mistake in the clip to show how easy it is to botch it. Practice makes kinda-almost-sometimes perfect.

 

Oh, and the 109 in this clip is a plain G-6, default settings except for the glass headrest and 30mm I gave him.

[Catgut]

Thanks for the pointers, and for taking the time to upload that demonstration. Seems to be pretty consistent with what I've observed- I find my gunnery is generally good when I can get on the AI's tail and hit the engine with a low-deflection burst; my issue right now is more figuring out how to get on their 6 when I have an angles advantage and force them out of that constant looping like I mentioned before.

 

I find I can force high-deflection shots with low yo-yos pretty easily, and it works great for a FW190, but doesn't get much lead on target in a Yak-1. The best I've been able to do so far is do a crossing burst with MGs only, saving my cannon ammo for a better shot, and the AI seems to break out of its looping and go into scissors once it starts taking hits.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Catgut

[oc2209]

4 hours ago, Catgut said:

I find I can force high-deflection shots with low yo-yos pretty easily, and it works great for a FW190, but doesn't get much lead on target in a Yak-1. The best I've been able to do so far is do a crossing burst with MGs only, saving my cannon ammo for a better shot, and the AI seems to break out of its looping and go into scissors once it starts taking hits.

 

No problem, I don't mind making the clips. I never have before, actually, so this is good practice if I ever get a better PC and want to properly make videos in the future.

 

That said, I made two clips here (shorter than the first, mercifully): I'm in the 109, and my opponents are a Yak-9 and a 1B. I can't explain how I managed to beat the 9's turn, especially when it was above me. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the pilot was on the verge of blacking out (6 minutes into the fight), and had to ease back on the stick, which then allowed me to cut through his circle by turning under him. To be perfectly honest, I'm not aware of what I'm doing half the time; I just do whatever works without framing it in a tactical sense. 

 

I put up the 1B just to show how the 109F-4 can easily turn inside any Yak, barring the 9. When I'm in the 9, I can easily turn inside the 109F-4 or any other 109.

 

Here's the 109 versus Yak-9 clip:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3wwhy7iFfM

 

And here's the 109 versus Yak-1B clip:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyd0zqXAsnE

 

And no, my gunnery's not great today, especially in the first clip.

[oc2209]

This is the last bit I'll add, since it's something I've been experimenting with lately.

 

I kick the rudder a little while I shoot at a turning target. This is more effective in the Yak than the 109, since the Yak's guns have a higher rate of fire. I used to dislike this extra rate of fire as I wasted ammo with it. But now I'm flying the Yak so often, I'm beginning to lose my touch with the 109's guns.

 

Anyway, long story short:

 

 

This is something I've never managed to do, with such a small amount of ammo spent. Detached wing and a fire, all because I kicked the rudder to spread the short burst into something like a shotgun blast. Even if I can't get these results every time... it's still fun trying.