Battle of Norway/Sinking the Tirpitz/Arctic Convoys

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

With the Options for Western European Battles yielding rather few notable Results after Bodenplatte, a Trilogy needing 3 Parts, and new Maps being an integral Part of each installment of the Great Battles, as well as interesting new Planes and Game Mechanics, the Battles around Norway are a pretty interesting Way of introducing a good Mix of Planes spanning most of the War into an interesting and important Map, with Shipping being the main Target for both Forces, from Narvik to the Tirpitz and the Arctic Convoys to Murmansk.

Also: Testbed for new Technologies needed for Pacific.

 

Features

• Carriers!!!!
• Carrier Planes, FM-2, F4F and F4U, Fairey Albacore or Barracuda, Seafire or Hurricane
• Blenheim or Beaufighter, maybe a Mosquito Variant?
• At least 3 missing Versions of Luftwaffe Aircraft, how about Ju-87B/R, Bf110F, Ju-87D-5
• Like, Do-17 and He--115
• Can't think of more 109 or 190 Versions, maybe a G-10 and AS Engines?
• Torpedoes
• Battleships
• Fjords

 

Planewise I have Trouble naming more than 3 important Aircraft or Variant missing per Nation. Beaufighter, Il-4, La-7 and Yak-9U, maybe even a Tu-2, one early Typhoon and Mk.IX Variant maybe, or LF Mk.Vc, nothing really American, ecvept for Naval Stuff, and the Germans are pretty much all done within Reason.

So, why not Norway.

Edited December 4, 2020 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[BMA_FlyingShark]

Personally I would like to see more early and mid war planes.

But is more late war is the way to go to keep this great sim going, then Norway would be a good idea.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[357th_KW]

I’d love to see a Norway map, but I don’t really see a good 5x5 planeset that could go with it.  Perhaps we’ll see “collector maps” in the future.  It would be awesome to see some Mosquito scenarios attacking ships in fjords.

[Raptor341]

Would be a day one buy for me

[jaguar]

4 hours ago, -332FG-KW_1979 said:

5x5 planeset

 

If the devs will not drop this business strategy they won't reach retirement time doing this job... 

 

My 2 cents

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

A 5x5 in this case could be stretched though, and be made Norway specific. Since any installment must at least contain some Bf109 and Fw190 Version, but there are no more 190s, so 109s it is

1. Bf-109T-2 - as they were meant for the Graf Zeppelin, they were sent to the rather quiet Northern Front. It's essentially an E-7/N with some extra Wingspan. 70 made.
2. Bf-110F - Like Bf109F, an intermediate that is light, powerful and fast, but doesn't come with the later Toys, and has Trouble with Bombs.
3. Do-217 (or Ju-188) - a German Bomber that yet has to receive it's Place in Il-2, flown by KG40
4. Ju-87B/R or D-5, a B/R would simply add an early Stuka, a D-5 more Firepower and easier Handling with those bigger Wings
5. He-115, because it's pretty

 

1. F4F-Martlet, Sea Hurricane or Fairey Fulmar - Early Carrier Fighter
2. Hellcat, Corsair or Seafire - Late Carrier Fighter
3. Fairey Barracuda - Late Carrier Torpedo Bomber
4. Fairey Swordfish or Albacore - Early Torpedo Bomber
5. Bristol Beaufighter - Counterpiece to the Mosquito.

[DD_Arthur]

It’s an interesting idea but we’re running out of LW plane set. This is where an Italian scenario would pay off; Italian aircraft to augment the existing axis plane set. The other problem with a Norwegian scenario is map size.  Flight time for a Beaufighter to reach the nearest part of the Norwegian coast from the UK is over an hour?.          

[357th_KW]

3 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

It’s an interesting idea but we’re running out of LW plane set. This is where an Italian scenario would pay off; Italian aircraft to augment the existing axis plane set. The other problem with a Norwegian scenario is map size.  Flight time for a Beaufighter to reach the nearest part of the Norwegian coast from the UK is over an hour?.          

Airspawns can address half the problem of long range scenarios, but we really need some mechanism for an air “despawn” in the mission editor.  Maybe some way to designate a section of the map or map edge that you could fly to and then despawn providing no enemies were near and you had adequate fuel and your aircraft wasn’t leaking too many fluids etc.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

On 12/6/2020 at 5:54 PM, DD_Arthur said:

It’s an interesting idea but we’re running out of LW plane set. This is where an Italian scenario would pay off; Italian aircraft to augment the existing axis plane set. The other problem with a Norwegian scenario is map size.  Flight time for a Beaufighter to reach the nearest part of the Norwegian coast from the UK is over an hour?.          

From Sumburgh Airfield (which was the main Base for Beaufighter against Norway) is, with the Beaufighter TF.Mk.X carrying a Mk.XII Torpedo (241 Knots economical Cruise), Trondheim is 1:41. The Way back is a lot shorter. But for the other Aircraft, that would be operating from Carriers, the Distance is up to the Mission Creators.

 

Italy and Norway are both interesting, but I prefer Norway, for Reasons I will go into:

 

Flying in Temperatures over 30°C isn't fun. The Air density is too low for Engines to produce Power, and the Engines run hot all the time. Flying with anywhere near Realistic Weather is going to suck, with Skies that are always hazy, Bombers having to really down-load their stomping Power just to get Airborne and Fighters battling their Engines as much as their opponents.

 

Even if we set the Bar for Italian Aircraft to anything produced with over 100 produced Examples there aren't really that many Types that remain.

• Reggiane 2001 (meh...)
• Mc.205 (pretty nice, but nothing Special)
• Fiat Biplanes (useless)
• SM.79 (fell Victim to Sea Gladiators and Blackburn Skuas)
• CANT 506 (it's a bit like a He-115 and actually nice, but I'd rather have a Heinkel)
• C.200 or Fiat G.50,

And generally the Airwar over Italy after the Invasion was limited to the Italians getting Curb-Stomped on the Ground by B-25s and A-36s, with Flak being the main opponent for Allied Bombers. It's not really interesting as much as it was a one Sided Seal Clubbing Campaign and more depressing than interesting.

In Terms of of Ground Assets, there are some Italian ones, the Ark Royal and the Illustrious Carrier Classes and some British Battleships maybe.

 

With Norway in Combination with the Normandy Map you can start adding so many Assets for a lot of interesting Operations.

• Bismarck Class (Tirpitz and Bismarck)
• Scharnhort Class (Scharnhorst and Gneisenau)
• Admiral Hipper Class (Admiral Hipper, Blücher, Prinz Eugen)
• Deutschland Class
• Ark Royal (Carrier)
• Illustrious Class (Carriers)
• Renown Class
• Courageous Class (Carriers)
• Queen Elizabeth Class

Operations:

• All of the Bombing Raids against the Tirpitz and the other German Battleships by the Fleet Air Arm and RAF against german Interceptors
• Raids on the Arctic Convoys by the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine
• The Channel Dash, while happening on the Normandy Map, is definetly a fun Mission to be run on something like Combat Box
• And, if we allow ourselves to take some Liberties on the Map, the sinking of the Bismarck and the Swordfish Operation that enabled it
• Potential for tons of balanced Fictional Missions
• First Happy Time

 

 

[jaguar]

On 12/13/2020 at 11:23 PM, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

[...]

 

Italy and Norway are both interesting, but I prefer Norway, for Reasons I will go into:

 

Flying in Temperatures over 30°C isn't fun. The Air density is too low for Engines to produce Power, and the Engines run hot all the time. Flying with anywhere near Realistic Weather is going to suck, with Skies that are always hazy, Bombers having to really down-load their stomping Power just to get Airborne and Fighters battling their Engines as much as their opponents.

 

[...]

 

The argument about temperature is weak IMO, values above 30°C are limited to the summer months. If that was a major factor there would have been little air action above the deserto too, which was not the case. 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

25 minutes ago, jaguar said:

 

The argument about temperature is weak IMO, values above 30°C are limited to the summer months. If that was a major factor there would have been little air action above the deserto too, which was not the case. 

Well, their Aircraft caught an awful lot of fire in these Temps. And most Air Operations were flown Dusk or Dawn.

[Bremspropeller]

On 12/13/2020 at 11:23 PM, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

Flying in Temperatures over 30°C isn't fun. The Air density is too low for Engines to produce Power, and the Engines run hot all the time. Flying with anywhere near Realistic Weather is going to suck, with Skies that are always hazy, Bombers having to really down-load their stomping Power just to get Airborne and Fighters battling their Engines as much as their opponents.

 

Better not fly in/ around Stalingrad in the summer then.

 

That's not an argument for or against a theater of operations/ map.

[Pikestance]

The weather argument has to be one of the silliest arguments I have seen here. 

 

Battle of Norway

Battle of France

Battle of Crete/ Greece

Battle of Malta

Battle of Sicily/ Italy 

Battle of Berlin 

 

All of these would be good additions to the series and each for their own reasons. I have been convince by every advocate. 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

17 hours ago, [=PzG=]-FlyinPinkPanther said:

The weather argument has to be one of the silliest arguments I have seen here. 

 

Battle of Norway Personal Preference

Battle of France NO

Battle of Crete/ Greece What Axis Planes to add?

Battle of Malta Actually interesting with a good mix of Planes, if you are into Bi-Planes, good timespan

Battle of Sicily/ Italy Less interesting

Battle of Berlin NO

 

All of these would be good additions to the series and each for their own reasons. I have been convince by every advocate. 

 

Any new traditional Installment with a 5x5 Planeset will have to come with Allied Carriers. And I believe they will complete the Europe Trilogy before attempting the Japanese Theaters. Hopefully starting with the Land Campaign in Burma.

[Pikestance]

2 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

 

Any new traditional Installment with a 5x5 Planeset will have to come with Allied Carriers. And I believe they will complete the Europe Trilogy before attempting the Japanese Theaters. Hopefully starting with the Land Campaign in Burma.

 

I wasn't asking your opinion on the matter, it was already evident in the thread. 

 

People think the PTO is just around the corner. The interview I heard Jason made no such promises. If anything, it is distant future possibility. 

 

Additionally, I wouldn't rule out a late time frame for North Africa either. When I asked Team Fusion if they plan to extended the time frame I received no response despite the other questions being answered. When I asked a second time, it as completely ignored. It doesn't mean tey won't. They want to keep fture plans private for now. But, who knows what area that they will do next. Most likely early war

[Bremspropeller]

I'm wondering, what the actual limits of the map-size are, granted lots of open water.

You know, something like this:

 

 

It has lots of the interesting places in the MTO - missing on what's already covered by Desert Wings.

[Jade_Monkey]

On 12/6/2020 at 3:14 PM, -332FG-KW_1979 said:

Airspawns can address half the problem of long range scenarios, but we really need some mechanism for an air “despawn” in the mission editor.  Maybe some way to designate a section of the map or map edge that you could fly to and then despawn providing no enemies were near and you had adequate fuel and your aircraft wasn’t leaking too many fluids etc.

It's easy to do for SP, not sure if that would work in MP though.