Control mapping help

[GrimChameleon05]

I'm a refugee from war thunder and I'm trying to set up controls for my plane but it just wont work. The buttons aren't overlapping or anything but they don't function at all. I'm using mouse aim but I want to be able to also use my WASD QE to roll and other stuff.

[ToXeR]

Same here. Still can't figure out how to make keyboard controls work in mouse mode. Really frustrating to see it is not implemented while every other flying game with mouse aim have this feature. At least give us the opportunity to make a barrel roll lol

[SharpeXB]

Get a joystick ?

[ToXeR]

Where did I ask about joystick? ? There is one home, but most of the time I don't have an opportunity to play from there or carry it with me. So I play in mouse mode and this small feature - to control pitch/roll/yaw from keyboard in mouse mode can make me and some mouse users really happy.

[LLv34_Temuri]

8 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Get a joystick ?

I get this with my throttle, so it's not about what hardware you use. Game lets me bind the buttons just fine, but they don't work in cockpit.

[SharpeXB]

13 hours ago, ToXeR said:

Where did I ask about joystick? ? There is one home, but most of the time I don't have an opportunity to play from there or carry it with me. So I play in mouse mode and this small feature - to control pitch/roll/yaw from keyboard in mouse mode can make me and some mouse users really happy.

To be honest this game is really intended to use a joystick. Yes there is a mouse mode but it’s fairly limited and I believe it operates differently than how it might work in other games. In short IL-2 is a simulator as opposed to a “game” and as such is really designed to use a joystick to get the most out of the aircraft. Also many servers are limited to joystick-only as well. 

[ToXeR]

3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

To be honest this game is really intended to use a joystick. Yes there is a mouse mode but it’s fairly limited and I believe it operates differently than how it might work in other games. In short IL-2 is a simulator as opposed to a “game” and as such is really designed to use a joystick to get the most out of the aircraft. Also many servers are limited to joystick-only as well. 

Yes, I know what you mean. I've been playing flight games with different level of realism and input devices since F-19 ? And I agree with the most part. But while IL-2 belongs to a simulator genre it is still a game where you can change gameplay difficulty by turning different elements on or off. Also it offers two control schemes for a player since 2015. Classic joystick and casual mouse+keyboard modes. So after 5 years I was just hoping the latter feature to be developed to the level of every other flight game with mouse control. I love IL-2, but the fact that you can't control rudder/ailerons/elevator from keyboard makes it impossible to peform the most basic maneuvers such as roll, split-S or evading bomber gunner's fire. Even a loop is non-trivial task. It's truly discouraging experience and there is no point in flying anything other then bombers and some attackers even in carier mode or scenario campaigns.

This feature will not affect yours or other sim pilots experience here. But it will make IL-2 more enjoyable for new players and old ones, who don't use joystick.

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, ToXeR said:

Yes, I know what you mean. I've been playing flight games with different level of realism and input devices since F-19 ? And I agree with the most part. But while IL-2 belongs to a simulator genre it is still a game where you can change gameplay difficulty by turning different elements on or off. Also it offers two control schemes for a player since 2015. Classic joystick and casual mouse+keyboard modes. So after 5 years I was just hoping the latter feature to be developed to the level of every other flight game with mouse control. I love IL-2, but the fact that you can't control rudder/ailerons/elevator from keyboard makes it impossible to peform the most basic maneuvers such as roll, split-S or evading bomber gunner's fire. Even a loop is non-trivial task. It's truly discouraging experience and there is no point in flying anything other then bombers and some attackers even in carier mode or scenario campaigns.

This feature will not affect yours or other sim pilots experience here. But it will make IL-2 more enjoyable for new players and old ones, who don't use joystick.

It’s not worth the Devs time to add more mouse functionality. I’m sure it’s hardly used at all. What you’re describing with a keyboard and mouse seems frustrating and horrible, it would be so awkward nobody would like doing it. So there’s no point. It’s like trying to play a racing sim with WASD keys ?

[ToXeR]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

seems frustrating and horrible

Why? Mouse and keyboard are the default PC controllers. A lot of players are comfortable with it. Almost every flight game from arcade flight shooters to aircraft and space sims has keyboard+mouse mode and it works really well when implemented correctly. I think the only reason why devs left it half done are technical problems.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

What you’re describing with a keyboard and mouse seems frustrating and horrible, it would be so awkward nobody would like doing it. So there’s no point. It’s like trying to play a racing sim with WASD keys ?

 

To be fair, he's describing the de facto standard for aircraft control with mouse and keyboard, featured in prominent games such as War Thunder. It's arguably more effective than joystick control - you get the robotic accuracy of mouse aim plus the ability to override pitch, roll, and yaw with the keyboard for special maneuvers.

 

Il-2's implementation forces the player to control 3DOF flight controls with only the two axes of a mouse, which obviously breaks down in certain cases. Of course, the debate about the value of improved mouse aim is another matter, as joysticks are clearly the main focus.

 

@ToXeR @GrimChameleon05 Welcome to the forum, by the way.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[SharpeXB]

8 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

It's arguably more effective than joystick control - you get the robotic accuracy of mouse aim plus the ability to override pitch, roll, and yaw with the keyboard for special maneuvers.

And this is why it’s server regulated. 
Honestly I can’t see the appeal or fun in trying to control a flight sim this way. I very much doubt it’s used enough in IL-2 to justify any further development. 

[cardboard_killer]

I've never had a binding for a plane not work, but I only use a joystick. Has anyone ascertained that this is indeed a repeatable problem? I'd prefer not trying to recreate it myself as I don't want to bugger my bindings up.

[ToXeR]

9 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

Hello and thank you for understanding ? I hope this problem will be solved one day.

 

52 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Honestly I can’t see the appeal or fun in trying to control a flight sim this way.

Its just a matter of taste.

 

Quote

I've never had a binding for a plane not work

The problem with keyboard controls in mouse mode is not a bug. It is not implemented intentionally for some reason. Hotkeys other than pitch/roll/yaw work fine.

Edited December 1, 2020 by ToXeR

[cardboard_killer]

1 hour ago, ToXeR said:

Hotkeys other than pitch/roll/yaw work fine.

 

Just to be sure I understand, the pre-assigned hotkeys work (up down left right arrow keys z/x for rudder), but assigning other keys (WASD) doesn't?

[ToXeR]

33 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

Just to be sure I understand, the pre-assigned hotkeys work (up down left right arrow keys z/x for rudder), but assigning other keys (WASD) doesn't?

Nope, pre-assigned hotkeys don't work in mouse mode either ?

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, ToXeR said:

The problem with keyboard controls in mouse mode is not a bug. It is not implemented intentionally for some reason. Hotkeys other than pitch/roll/yaw work fine.

What you’re trying to do is double assign controls. The mouse is already controlling pitch, roll and yaw so those same commands can’t also be mapped to keys. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by SharpeXB

[ToXeR]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

What you’re trying to do is double assign controls. The mouse is already controlling pitch, roll and yaw so those same commands can’t also be mapped to keys. 

It can and it works. Keyboard controls have priority over mouse and there is no conflict. Don't you ever play a game where you control aircraft (car, cpaceship, helicopter you name it) with mouse and keyboard?

Edited December 1, 2020 by ToXeR

[cardboard_killer]

2 hours ago, ToXeR said:

Nope, pre-assigned hotkeys don't work in mouse mode either ?

 

How odd; they don't work in joystick mode, either, except for the elevator I cannot get any of the other control surfaces to work. However, i did not remove any of my joysticks or rudder pedals, so maybe removing them would kick them into gear?

[ToXeR]

3 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

How odd; they don't work in joystick mode, either, except for the elevator I cannot get any of the other control surfaces to work. However, i did not remove any of my joysticks or rudder pedals, so maybe removing them would kick them into gear?

Well, I made mouse and keyboard work in joystick mode after complete rebinding. Even managed to take a bird off, make a circle and land it in repairable state ? But that is a horrible experience overall I want forget. Joystick mode belongs to joystick controls.

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, ToXeR said:

 Don't you ever play a game where you control aircraft (car, cpaceship, helicopter you name it) with mouse and keyboard?

Other than like driving a car in an FPS game with the WASD keys (which sucks), no I  try doing that. Again it’s just super frustrating and not worthwhile. 
Plus using a mouse or game pad controller for flight has the Y-Axis inversion problem. That reflex is simply impossible to unlearn and makes those controls impossible to use for flight. Unless you had no idea how an aircraft operates and that pulling back makes you go up which is the opposite of how a mouse is used. You’d have to think of that as an air-shooter flight game where you just point the gunsight around like an FPS and shut any though of flying out of your mind. It just doesn’t work. 
Simulators like this are meant for joysticks. Really...

[ToXeR]

18 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

That reflex is simply impossible to unlearn

This is an extremely absolute statement, at least when it comes to people who fly with both joysticks and mouse (or virtual mouse-joysticks). Its just a matter of habit and there is no dissonance in mind when you change controls. Also there is an option to invert x- or y-axis if you are not comfortable with the default settings. But that is a matter of another discussion ?

 

33 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Simulators like this are meant for joysticks. Really...

High realism settings and joystick mode are meant for joysticks. If you'd change difficulty settings to easy and mose mode, the game still be a simulator, but some tasks will be performed by the game. Quite similar to the modern day aircraft, where avionics makes life easier for a pilot. And why not to improve mouse mode (or enable keyboard feature for single-player) to make the game more attractive for people. Right now there is no aircraft simulator game on the market, with realistic single player/multiplayer gameplay and good mouse+keyboard controls. War Thunder has great controls, but it is more an arena-air-quake-grinfest than a historical game. The upcoming DCS: Modern Air Combat is quite promising in terms of the aforementioned criteria, but it is too eary to judge. And it is all about postwar jets, while my passion are piston engine birds.

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, ToXeR said:

Also there is an option to invert x- or y-axis if you are not comfortable with the default settings.

To use an inverted Y axis you would need to have trained yourself from the beginning to adapt to that. It’s impossible to switch as a reflex. And with a mouse everyone is conditioned that “up” on the screen means moving the mouse forward. A flight stick means not having to deal with this. 

3 hours ago, ToXeR said:

Right now there is no aircraft simulator game on the market, with realistic single player/multiplayer gameplay and good mouse+keyboard controls.

That’s because people who play aircraft simulators with realistic gameplay don’t use mouse controls. Why would you want a realistic sim with unrealistic controls?

3 hours ago, ToXeR said:

War Thunder has great controls, but it is more an arena-air-quake-grinfest than a historical game.

Because mouse controls are for arena-air-quake-grinfest games. This isn’t one of those games. 

[ToXeR]

58 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

That’s because people who play aircraft simulators with realistic gameplay don’t use mouse controls.

Wrong. People who play aircraft simulators with realistic gameplay use mouse controls. Don't you think its just me? Or never met people flying with vJoy and such? Not everyone has an opportunity or wish to play with or spend money on joystick. It seems we've returned to the starting point.

 

58 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Because mouse controls are for arena-air-quake-grinfest games. This isn’t one of those games. 

Its exactly the same if you say that VR is the only way to play simulator games and monitor belongs to the arcades ?

This is one of the games that offers mouse mode. I want it to be improved to the level of other games.

You tell me what is right and what is wrong way of playing based on your mostly erroneous opinion. Why do you care if it will not interfere your way of gaming?

Joystick, mouse, keyboard or gamepad are just input devices. Toys compared to the real aircraft controls.

 It looks like you are trolling me or you should get rid of your "joystick" elitism ?

Farewell.

[SharpeXB]

38 minutes ago, ToXeR said:

People who play aircraft simulators with realistic gameplay use mouse controls.

They really don’t. A simulator must be designed so simulator controls are the best option. Because aircraft aren’t flown with keyboards. 
look at multiplayer, you can see most people are on joystick-only servers. The type of player that uses a mouse is over on War Thunder or Ace Combat. 

[ToXeR]

10 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

you can see most people are on joystick-only servers

Joystick servers are meant to be played in joystick mode. It doesn't restrict player what input device to use. You can play there with mouse or driving wheel if you'll make it work. You know it, right?

[SharpeXB]

4 hours ago, ToXeR said:

Joystick servers are meant to be played in joystick mode. It doesn't restrict player what input device to use. You can play there with mouse or driving wheel if you'll make it work. You know it, right?

The servers with the red joystick don’t allow the mouse control feature. Yes you can assign any axis controller to pitch roll and yaw but doing that with a mouse leaves you without rudder control and “Rudder Assist” is disabled on most all servers. Using a mouse like that with keys or whatever assigned to your rudder is actually a handicap so nobody is worried about anyone gaining a competitive advantage that way. 
Also you’ll notice that the few servers in this game which are regularly populated are joystick-only, an indication of what the majority preference is. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by SharpeXB