HOTAS Setup

[Tracon]

I currently have a Saitek X52 Pro. I’ve had it for about 7 years or so and it is starting to give me some problems. 
 

I would like to add rudder pedals now and the a new hotas when the X52 Pro finally gives out. 
 

What rudder pedals are recommended?  I’m not too concerned with budget. Whatever I get I want it to last. 
 

Thanks in advance. 

[cardboard_killer]

That's like going into a bar and asking which kind of whiskey is the best!

 

For rudder pedals see:

 

 

https://jaytheskepticalengineer.com/fathering-and-hobbies/flight-simming/flight-sim-gear-reviews/an-engineers-look-at-high-end-flight-sim-pedals-and-the-slaw-rx-viper-version-2s/

 

 

For high end HOTAS there are three main contenders,

 

VKB

Virpil

Thrustmaster Warthog

[Tracon]

23 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

That's like going into a bar and asking which kind of whiskey is the best!

 

For rudder pedals see:

 

 

https://jaytheskepticalengineer.com/fathering-and-hobbies/flight-simming/flight-sim-gear-reviews/an-engineers-look-at-high-end-flight-sim-pedals-and-the-slaw-rx-viper-version-2s/

 

 

For high end HOTAS there are three main contenders,

 

VKB

Virpil

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thank you! I have previously looked at the warthog, but I do not remember it being almost $700.00.  Was that always the price or are they out of production and the price reflects that?

[cardboard_killer]

20 minutes ago, Tracon said:

Thank you! I have previously looked at the warthog, but I do not remember it being almost $700.00.  Was that always the price or are they out of production and the price reflects that?

 

I think that the release of MS Flight Simulator 2020 recently has caused the price of sticks to go haywire. You mentioned in your first post, however, just the HOTAS; were you also looking for a throttle (I usually think of the stick as the HOTAS and the throttle as  . . . the throttle, but maybe that's wrong and a HOTAS is both?) with the stick?

In the second tier of sticks, I'd include

• VKB's Gladiator NXT (I have the previous generation's version of the gladiator and I have been very pleased)
• Thrustmaster T16000M FCS HOTAS (it has a throttle and rudder pedal options, too)
• Logitech's X52 Pro, formerly Saitek
• Logitech's X54 Rhino

All are in the $150-350 range; I only have experience with the Gladiator which I like very much. All have throttle options except the Gladiator, but I think they are working on one. I have a used CH throttle quadrant I got got from craigslist cheap.

[Tracon]

47 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

I think that the release of MS Flight Simulator 2020 recently has caused the price of sticks to go haywire. You mentioned in your first post, however, just the HOTAS; were you also looking for a throttle (I usually think of the stick as the HOTAS and the throttle as  . . . the throttle, but maybe that's wrong and a HOTAS is both?) with the stick?

In the second tier of sticks, I'd include

• VKB's Gladiator NXT (I have the previous generation's version of the gladiator and I have been very pleased)
• Thrustmaster T16000M FCS HOTAS (it has a throttle and rudder pedal options, too)
• Logitech's X52 Pro, formerly Saitek
• Logitech's X54 Rhino

All are in the $150-350 range; I only have experience with the Gladiator which I like very much. All have throttle options except the Gladiator, but I think they are working on one. I have a used CH throttle quadrant I got got from craigslist cheap.

I have the x52 Pro which includes both the stick and throttle. 

 

FYI HOTAS is Hand on Throttle and Stick.  Looking to add rudders at the moment, but after reading the incredibly detailed article, he said he was more accurate with the twist rudder.  I may give it a go and see how I like it.  Trying to use VR plus the required keyboard commands for managing twin engines may be a bit difficult.  I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. May just run this until it dies and use the rudder cash to invest in more game packages.

[Sokol1]

Give a look in the other Jay article, to see the actual panorama of joystick joystick market.

 

https://jaytheskepticalengineer.com/fathering-and-hobbies/flight-simming/the-flight-simming-hardware-leaderboard/

 

The actual "high end" brands is VKB, VirPil and WingWing, with (metal, bearings, CAM) gimbal ways better than Warthog (plastic) gimbal.

 

Thing is that this brands have more buyers than production, but when in stock at least their prices are not inflated like the other brands actually, due MS 2020, Star Wars Squadron "hype" and pandemic caused shortages.

 

https://vkbcontrollers.com/ 

https://virpil.com/

https://www.winwing.cn/en/JOYSTICK

 

VKB and Virpil bases accept Thrustmaster F-16 and F-18 grips, Virpil "bold and play", VKB require an extra electronic adapter.

 

For actual games you don't need buy an "HOTAS" for this or that brand, but combine the best of each.

 

For example, if your X-52 throttle work OK can get an VKB Gladiator NXT (best features, quality, price) in "midi-range" and have a custom "HOTAS" with less cost. 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Sokol1

[robbiec]

9 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

That's like going into a bar and asking which kind of whiskey is the best!

 

For rudder pedals see:

 

 

https://jaytheskepticalengineer.com/fathering-and-hobbies/flight-simming/flight-sim-gear-reviews/an-engineers-look-at-high-end-flight-sim-pedals-and-the-slaw-rx-viper-version-2s/

 

 

For high end HOTAS there are three main contenders,

 

VKB

Virpil

Thrustmaster Warthog

Everyone knows that answer ?

It's a Bushmills 16yo Single Malt Whiskey ?

[cardboard_killer]

9 hours ago, Tracon said:

Looking to add rudders at the moment, but after reading the incredibly detailed article, he said he was more accurate with the twist rudder. 

 

I don't know anyone that prefers any twist stick to good pedals. In certain situation it may be more accurate, but in many situations it interferes with aileron control IMO. Some of the best sticks do not even have the function. If you can afford it and intend to play a lot, they are worth it, IMO.

8 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

WingWing

 

I had not known much about WingWing. Thanks for the heads up. I am actually thinking of getting a new joystick so I could add a extension, something I don't think I can do with my Gladiator II.

[Sokol1]

Quote

  12 hours ago, Tracon said:

Looking to add rudders at the moment, but after reading the incredibly detailed article, he said he was more accurate with the twist rudder. 

 

From the cortex sensory motor point of view this is true, your hand can make more precise and fast movements that your feets+legs+hip required by conventional back and forth rudder pedals - VKB T-Rudder require up-down movement; so can be more fast (I and able to "drive" vehicles in ARMA3 with T-Rudder).

 

For an well used player may this give a small advantage in 1x1 MP dogfight, with the same type of plane.

 

Thing is that are penalties, like unwanted mix of rudder movements in aileron, elevator movements and vice-versa.

 

I use twist axis of VKB Gladiator Mk.II as "wheel brakes" in il-2 CloD (use VKB T-Rudder as rudder pedal), and in this game the dumb HUD show a even more dumb message for "Wheel brakes" and worse, for every %, so you have multiple lines of "Wheel brakes: 3%.. 4%...5%... and so on" (think in a idiot thing included in a game), so I know when are making unwanted twist rudder movements, generally truing aim in the bandit, fortunately press "Wheel brakes" in flying have no collateral effects. ?

 

Now, the best twist rudder - with contactless sensor, metal mechanism are only in "high end" VKB, VirPil and WingWing joysticks. 

"Entry level" models like T.16000M and Saitek's use conventional low cost potentiometer (subject to spike with use) and even plastic bushing pivot mechanism in their twist.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Sokol1

[=FEW=fernando11]

For me the argument of twist joystick axis for rudder instead of rudder pedals is akin to using the thumbstick in a Xbox controlledr instead of a good quality joystick for roll and pitch.

I've used both

The xbox contorller can be faster, and at the beginning even more "natural" to use.

But the precision of a good joystick,maybe with an extension is undoubtedly higer, many times over. And flight sims are rarely about super fast reaction and quick moves. And more about controlled deliberate manouvers with some flow.

I'm sure I'm better with a god joystick and dedicated rudder pedals.

Enough of a diference to justify the cost. I dont know. But the cost is justified by the immersion. Using your hands/arms AND legs , instead of just a couple of fingers (xbox controller) feels way More natural, and less like a game.

But ofcourse there's always people that prefer to game the game.

[Sokol1]

In the "heydays" of the old "Ubi'zoo" IL-2 forum an guy make a length post - citing scientific research he did in University laboratory, defending the same thought of Jay, the use hands and not foot for rudder control in fligth games, I remember he mention that use to make MP dogfights betting real money and are good in this. If my memory serves me correctly, he say that use the mini-stick of an CH PRO Throttle as rudder control.

 

Here in this forum are post of guys that have pedals, but use only for ground taxi, in flight/fight prefer use the twist rudder, having assigned both axes for yaw. 

 

Some people see games about planes like another videogame, and if possible will "game the game". ?

 

BTW - I do not advocate not using pedals (I use) just trying to explain the argument about it.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Sokol1