Erla hood for Bf-109 G6 collector plane ?

[sevenless]

If you could add this as a mod to the Bf-109 G6 collector plane that would be great and allow this historical config (example CO Mietusch of III./JG 26 in 1944, France) in BoN and BoBP. Intro date of the Erla was late 1943, according to Prien/Rodeicke, so 11/43 onwards, with a lot of retrofitting in the field during 1944:

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by sevenless

[Roland_HUNter]

Honestly, the germans started using Erla since 1943 june-august.
But what you mentioned G-6 from the book, that is the G-6 late.
There was many variant, if you check that book again.
Taller tail, but no Erla canopy.

Erla canopy, but no taller tail.

(your picture)

 

I would like to see Erla on the regular G-6, but I guess, they ll not let it happen.

But, maybe you can be right, I found this:

Messerschmitt Bf 109 G-1 to K-4 Guide to Engines and Fittings by J. Mermet page 56.

Other interesting links:
http://luftwaffeprofiles.blogspot.com/p/jg-2-gustav-profiles.html

[Robli]

I wonder, what does this Bf-109 G6 collector plane bring to the game now? Is there any option that I can pick on the collector plane that is not available in the G6 late? Or if I pick the G6 late, without 21cm BR, MW50 and Erla, how does it differ from the G6 collector? I understand that tail is different, but is that difference noticeable in any practical way?

[migmadmarine]

The difference is more relevant to single player people. The early configuration G-6 is available in Kuban, the late is not. I've also seen it said the early is slower but turns a bit quicker. 

[Robli]

Wouldn't the G6 late, with the late-mods locked, be pretty much the same aircraft that was available in Kuban?

I think that devs should consider adding something to the collector G6 to make it somehow worth collecting. Maybe GM-1 boost, that was used in early G6's, but apparently not in later models? Not that this modification would be useful for Kuban or that high altitude related things are that useful in the game in general, but just for it to have some collector-worthy element in it. Or something else that a collector would feel like he has picked up by buying this collector plane that he did not have already from the standard plane set.

[Hanu]

IMO the biggest difference is the skins. In performance-wise the difference should be neglible as wearing is not a factor. (Wooden tail was more prone to wearing, and they were replaced eventually in FAF service) Finns had 114 Bf-109 G6's (2 of those were actually G-8's) in their service. I have no information about 3 of those, but for the rest the combinations were:

 

35 with Low-profile tail + Erla-haube

18 with Low-profile tail + Original canopy (Galland-canopy)

38 with Tall-tail + Erla-haube

20 with Tall-tail + Original canopy (Galland-canopy)

 

So almost third of those (~31%) were  the combination to which you cannot create a skin currently. Surely this is "important" only to purists, but it would be nice to have this option too, but I can easilly live without it.

[sevenless]

10 hours ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Honestly, the germans started using Erla since 1943 june-august.

 

Source please. Where can I find that?

[Roland_HUNter]

4 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

Source please. Where can I find that?

Messerschmitt Bf 109 G-1 to K-4 Guide to Engines and Fittings by J. Mermet page 56.

8 hours ago, Robli said:

Wouldn't the G6 late, with the late-mods locked, be pretty much the same aircraft that was available in Kuban?

I think that devs should consider adding something to the collector G6 to make it somehow worth collecting. Maybe GM-1 boost, that was used in early G6's, but apparently not in later models? Not that this modification would be useful for Kuban or that high altitude related things are that useful in the game in general, but just for it to have some collector-worthy element in it. Or something else that a collector would feel like he has picked up by buying this collector plane that he did not have already from the standard plane set.

Some G-5 used GM-1 boost, and AS engine and it had pressurized cockpit.
First G-5 was lost on 21 September 1943 when Uffz.
Scheibe of 5./JG 3 was injured while making an
emergency landing in Werknummer 15961.
But basicly germans used GM-1 since F-2.
F-2, F-4 and G-2 used it for recon.(F-2/Z, F-4/Z and G-2/R2)
G-1 was a high alt plane with pressurized cockpit. Its used GM-1 aswell.
G-3 U/2, G-6/U2, G-8/U2,(recon) planes used GM-1.
And G-5 ofcourse.

[sevenless]

1 hour ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Messerschmitt Bf 109 G-1 to K-4 Guide to Engines and Fittings by J. Mermet page 56.

 

Interesting. You are sure you don´t confuse Galland-Armor (bullet proof glass - intro late summer 43) with the Erla-Canopy (intro end of 43)?

 

I have Mermets & Ehrengardts 109 book published by CaraTere in 2016 and therein is no mention of the mid 43 date you describe. 

 

First Erla Canopy that documented evidence exists AFAIK is Maj. Braendle of II./JG 3 at Schipol . He was killed 3rd November 43, so his plane (WNr. 26058 - G6 build at Erla) was retrofitted with the canopy in october. Also there is Hermann Graf of JG 11 and his G5 (WNr. 15729) with retrofitted Erla-Canopy in november 1943 at Jever, but nothing earlier of an Erla Canopy before october 43.

Edited November 17, 2020 by sevenless

[Roland_HUNter]

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

 

Interesting. You are sure you don´t confuse Galland-Armor (bullet proof glass - intro late summer 43) with the Erla-Canopy (intro end of 43)?

 

I have Mermets & Ehrengardts 109 book published by CaraTere in 2016 and therein is no mention of the mid 43 date you describe. 

 

First Erla Canopy that documented evidence exists AFAIK is Maj. Braendle of II./JG 3 at Schipol . He was killed 3rd November 43, so his plane (WNr. 26058 - G6 build at Erla) was retrofitted with the canopy in october. Also there is Hermann Graf of JG 11 and his G5 (WNr. 15729) with retrofitted Erla-Canopy in november 1943 at Jever, but nothing earlier of an Erla Canopy before october 43.

Ahm, I uploaded the page from the book. Did u missed that? (my first comment)

[sevenless]

17 minutes ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Ahm, I uploaded the page from the book. Did u missed that? (my first comment)

 

Yep, saw it and downloaded that whole 86 pages piece as a pdf online. Honestly don´t know what to make out of it. No primary sources given no nothing. Handwritten annotations...Could be all or nothing. Problem is that it isn´t corroborated in independant publications by other authors and contradicted by Prien / Rodeike. so I take it with a grain of salt.

 

https://dokumen.tips/download/link/messerschmitt-bf-109-g-1-to-k-4-engines-fittings

Edited November 17, 2020 by sevenless

[Roland_HUNter]

Messerschmitt Bf 109 by Alan W. Hall page 62.

 

1943 march
https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109G/Bf-109G/pages/P-Messerschmitt-Bf-109G4-Erla-flown-by-Karl-Hannes-during-high-altitude-testing-Deurne-Belgium-Mar-1943-01.html

[sevenless]

1 hour ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Messerschmitt Bf 109 by Alan W. Hall page 62.

 

That one makes me smile. The red winged ONE badge of JG1 was introduced in 12/43 by the new CO Walter Oesau who took over in 11/43 from Hermann Graf. Look Mombeek, Defenders of the Reich, vol.2, page 199.  So with that plane by Alan Hall we are in december 43 again.

Edited November 17, 2020 by sevenless

[Roland_HUNter]

18 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

That one makes me smile. The red winged ONE badge of JG1 was introduced in 12/43 by the new CO Walter Oesau who took over in 11/43 from Hermann Graf. Look Mombeek, Defenders of the Reich, vol.2, page 199.  So with that plane by Alan Hall we are in december 43 again.

And the 2. picture?

[sevenless]

Just now, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

And the 2. picture?

 

Dunno, never saw that in any book I have. Not that I doubt that such an experimental version existed, but asisbiz is not a very reliable source when it comes to descriptions. Any idea where that experimental G4 is described in detail?

[Roland_HUNter]

Not found sadly.

[sevenless]

18 minutes ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Not found sadly.

 

Don´t worry. Eventually something might pop up. Just had a look at the WNr. batches given by Prien/Rodeike here:

 

 

The 162 000 batch went into production 1/44 at Regensburg Mtt and ran through 9/44 and WNr. 167 500. All G6 and G6/AS machines. The 413 000 batch was G6/U2 and some G6/MW50 from 6/44 - 8/44 at Erla Leipzig. If I understand things correctly, all other G6 machines with Erla Hood, especially those 1943 examples were field conversions. In case of converted G5s that is obvious because the Erla Hood breakes the pressurized cabin.

[Roland_HUNter]

Where did u find the 162 000 went into production in 1944/1?

The Messerschmitt Bf 109 (Part 2) F to K Variants by Lynn Ritger page 214:

[sevenless]

3 minutes ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Where did u find the 162 000 went into production in 1944/1?

 

Here. See page 176. https://www.amazon.de/Messerschmitt-Bf-109-complete-monography/dp/2916403140

 

[Roland_HUNter]

Can u make a picture please? I doN't have this book. ?

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

26 minutes ago, sevenless said:

Don´t worry. Eventually something might pop up.

 

Interestingly, the aircraft in the photo appears to have a tall tail in addition to Erla Haube. Whatever it is, I wouldn't trust it as proof of anything related to typical G-6 modification timelines.

 

It appears in forum discussions circa 2010 pointing to the book "Erlawerk VII: Antwerpen-Mortsel, 1940-1944" as the source, but the trail goes cold because I don't have a copy.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[sevenless]

22 minutes ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Can u make a picture please? I doN't have this book. ?

 

Sure. Here you are:

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

It appears in forum discussions circa 2010 pointing to the book "Erlawerk VII: Antwerpen-Mortsel, 1940-1944" as the source, but the trail goes cold because I don't have a copy.

 

https://www.amazon.de/Erlawerk-VII-Antwerpen-Mortsel-oorlogsdagboek-vliegveld/dp/9072547101/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=Erlawerk+VII%3A+Antwerpen-Mortsel&qid=1605662866&sr=8-1

 

Erla Antwerpen did all the field conversions of G5s to G5/AS and a lot of other conversion stuff, so that sounds reasonable that it was a testing ground for new Erla designs and concepts. And if that Erla-Canopy appears on Brändles machine in Schipol in 10/43, as we know, someone must have done the testing beforehand the roll-out to the field units.

Edited November 18, 2020 by sevenless

[Roland_HUNter]

Interesting, it says Hungary Produced 633 G variants. I knew about 309.


I don't know, I checked many books, and nobody knew the WNr. numbers dates.

And Erla canopy from 1944 jan only? And not before, when they already tested it in 1943 march? Strange.

[sevenless]

11 minutes ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Interesting, it says Hungary Produced 633 G variants. I knew about 309.


I don't know, I checked many books, and nobody knew the WNr. numbers dates.

And Erla canopy from 1944 jan only? And not before, when they already tested it in 1943 march? Strange.

 

Yea, makes sense to remain skeptical and don´t trust just one single source. Anyways back to my initial point of this threat. If I get that Erla-hood for the G6-Collector, which would make sense for the BoN timeframe 4/44-8/44 then I´m a happy camper.

[Roland_HUNter]

21 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Yea, makes sense to remain skeptical and don´t trust just one single source. Anyways back to my initial point of this threat. If I get that Erla-hood for the G6-Collector, which would make sense for the BoN timeframe 4/44-8/44 then I´m a happy camper.

I hope we ll get it. ?

Last one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Bf_109#Production
 

It says from 1944 january: Erla with Longer tail and MW50. But before just Erla. Its make sense.

[Cybermat47]

I hope we do, I have a model of a G-6 with an erla canopy and short tail.

[Roland_HUNter]

I just saw in game the in G-6 late description: combat debut is early 1944. What is right if we calculate the MW-50,(as I know they started using MW-50 in early 1944) but then they should really add Erla modi for regular G-6 for use in 1943 late summer/autumn.
 

[David_4555]

Not sure we're allowed to do this, sorry if it isn't, but i'd like to bump this thread. I think this mod would be amazing. 

[CountZero]

Why make it mode, when you can make it as new 109G6 collector airplane

[MisterSmith]

1 hour ago, David_4555 said:

Not sure we're allowed to do this, sorry if it isn't, but i'd like to bump this thread. I think this mod would be amazing. 

 

It's not strictly forbidden but we prefer you do not bump threads this old. The general rule is, if the thread is more than two release versions old the info is often/usually no longer relevant.

 

Smith

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

On 12/24/2022 at 8:52 AM, David_4555 said:

Not sure we're allowed to do this, sorry if it isn't, but i'd like to bump this thread. I think this mod would be amazing. 

The g6 late has the Erla hood mod. The new g6/a6 will also have it too.

[CUJO_1970]

These canopies would be for 109G6 Early.

 

1st pic is summer 1943:

 

 

November 1943: