Make Shadows and Grass permanent settings.

[LUZITANO]

Many players disable shadows and grass to take advantage of the air and tank simulators. The "ULQ move" even using a powerfull computer to fly or drive tanks... 

If possible, make the shadows and grass permanent.

As for the grass. Players learn by playing singleplayer that it is necessary to disable the grass because the AI is anti-tank weapons or tanks shoot through the grass, and that is another thing that needs to be resolved. The grass should be permanent and artificial intelligence should see the grass, because the way it is today it shoots as if the grass did not exist.

 

[RIVALDO]

It wouldn't bother me much if the grass was permanent for EVERYONE but how do the shadows affect the tank gameplay?

[Legioneod]

I don't see much point honestly. Grass has a limited render range iirc and has no effect on air combat/gameplay. Tanks are a different matter but even then I've never seen grass have a huge effect on tank gameplay.

 

I don't see how shadows have an effect on anything.

[THERION]

Well, to set shadow permanently will cause some performance issues for pilots with older systems. And what level of shadow would you suggest

to be set? This is another point, I have set shadows on medium level because it helps me to increase my SA especially on low level flying. Setting

shadows on highest level is too much taxing my system's performance and the visual result between medium and high doesn't justify the serious

loss of performance, if you ask me.

 

Grass is not crucial when we talk about the flying part of IL2 GB - for tankers this is a different story and finally leads to the general question, if it

was clever to use the same game engine for both, tankers and pilots. In my opinion it would have been a better decision not to melt them both together.

Again, that's just my point of view.

Edited November 15, 2020 by THERION

[Yogiflight]

7 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Tanks are a different matter but even then I've never seen grass have a huge effect on tank gameplay.

It has a huge effect, when you use grass and don't see your opponents tank hidden in the grass, while he, not using grass, can clearly see you standing on an open field.

[Legioneod]

7 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

It has a huge effect, when you use grass and don't see your opponents tank hidden in the grass, while he, not using grass, can clearly see you standing on an open field.

Is the grass really that tall that it can hide a tank? Just curious, as I haven't played a ton of tank crew.

Also how far is the render range for grass? If only only makes a difference up close and not rendered at 1000yds or more than imo it's not gonna change anything to have it permanently on.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Legioneod

[LUZITANO]

 

9 hours ago, RIVALDO said:

It wouldn't bother me much if the grass was permanent for EVERYONE but how do the shadows affect the tank gameplay?

The shadow is removed to avoid shadows inside the cockpit in addition to making the visibility better and the environment lighter if you are under a cloud that is usually dark.

 

2 hours ago, THERION said:

Well, to set shadow permanently will cause some performance issues for pilots with older systems. And what level of shadow would you suggest

to be set? This is another point, I have set shadows on medium level because it helps me to increase my SA especially on low level flying. Setting

shadows on highest level is too much taxing my system's performance and the visual result between medium and high doesn't justify the serious

loss of performance, if you ask me.

So, this is a serious concern to make the game accessible to various types of computers and levels of graphics. So ... I think the shadows should have more options like: Ultra low, low, medium, high and very high. But ... be permanent even to give more realism.

 

 

1 hour ago, Legioneod said:

Is the grass really that tall that it can hide a tank? Just curious, as I haven't played a ton of tank crew.

Also how far is the render range for grass? If only only makes a difference up close and not rendered at 1000yds or more than imo it's not gonna change anything to have it permanently on.

On the grass, anyone playing with the tanks on IL-2 knows that the activated grass limits the gunner's vision drastically. If you try a quick mission with tanks you will get shot through the grass, the computer sees everything and the players who disable the grass too.

 

[RIVALDO]

1 hour ago, LUZITANO said:

 

The shadow is removed to avoid shadows inside the cockpit in addition to making the visibility better and the environment lighter if you are under a cloud that is usually dark.

 

So, this is a serious concern to make the game accessible to various types of computers and levels of graphics. So ... I think the shadows should have more options like: Ultra low, low, medium, high and very high. But ... be permanent even to give more realism.

 

 

On the grass, anyone playing with the tanks on IL-2 knows that the activated grass limits the gunner's vision drastically. If you try a quick mission with tanks you will get shot through the grass, the computer sees everything and the players who disable the grass too.

 

The gunner has a limited visibility. But you also have your commander's position ,which is much higher  in most tanks. If you get killed while hiding in tall grass looking throughthe gunner's sights,not knowing where it came from,well,perhaps the enemy tank's commander spotted you...

[Yogiflight]

3 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Is the grass really that tall that it can hide a tank? Just curious, as I haven't played a ton of tank crew.

When you move up a hill, you usually stop once you can see above the hill from commander's position, to look for enemies. With grass on your tank will be about two thirds over the hill for your opponent with grass off.

I don't know about the rendering, though. Isn't there the possibility to select it in the settings?

[Honza]

Yeah and when i fly low while chasing someone, with grass on, i have around 50FPS drops... no thank you. 

[stupor-mundi]

When I want to have a visually pleasing tanking experience, I turn the grass visible at a large distance.

At the same time I'm aware that this puts me at a big disadvantage. A goal oriented tanker will minimize the grass visibility.

Obviously, two tanks approaching each other over a convex surface (a mild hill), where both players occupy the same position, lets say, commander, looking out of the open hatch, the one who has the grass turned off will see the other one first.

I dislike what the grass looks like, on the setting where it's only shown close-by, since the abrupt change from grass to no-grass is very visible and distracting, as it seems to move across the landscape when driving. Kind of like a portable patch of pubic hair.

It's clear that the setting of grass visible at max distance will harm performance, especially on older gpus.

I think the only viable solution for a mandatory visible-grass setting at large distances would be, if there was a more abstracted variant of the grass visible at large distances, one that wouldn't impact performance. It would be like a solid or semi tranparent object that rests on the surface, having the thickness of grass-height.

 

 

 

[LUZITANO]

I still think it should be permanent. Sometimes I remove the grass because it covers the view of the Panzer III gun and I don't want to be at a disadvantage because of that.

Funny video anyway lol 
 

 

[[SN]_Reaper_]

04.12.2021 в 16:14, LUZITANO сказал:

смешное видео все равно лол 

 

What an awful bumpy ground. The grass helps hide this horror.

P.S. I play without grass and without bumps ?

[LUZITANO]

On 11/20/2020 at 8:33 PM, Honza said:

Yeah and when i fly low while chasing someone, with grass on, i have around 50FPS drops... no thank you. 

this suggestion is for tanks only, not planes

[Ribbon]

On 11/15/2020 at 1:14 AM, LUZITANO said:

Many players disable shadows and grass to take advantage of the air and tank simulators. The "ULQ move" even using a powerfull computer to fly or drive tanks... 

If possible, make the shadows and grass permanent.

As for the grass. Players learn by playing singleplayer that it is necessary to disable the grass because the AI is anti-tank weapons or tanks shoot through the grass, and that is another thing that needs to be resolved. The grass should be permanent and artificial intelligence should see the grass, because the way it is today it shoots as if the grass did not exist.

 

 

It would kill VR in il2 so a big NO to that!

Also it would kill performance for those with low end pc's that are already struggling.

Shadows and grass have huge performance hit, it would make VR unplayable for me even i have high end pc (i7 10700k, rtx3080).

Speaking here for ww2 aviation, don't own TC nor i think cos of microscopic TC MP playerbase rest of us should suffer performance degradation.

[LUZITANO]

On 11/20/2020 at 8:33 PM, Honza said:

with grass on, i have around 50FPS drops

13 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

Shadows and grass have huge performance hit

Flying above 100 metres make no significant difference, only if u fly very low cutting grass the FPS drop a little. On ground or flying on deck the difference is about 10 frames only.

But the suggestion is not for planes, I want it to be applied only to tanks because grass and shadows make a lot of difference in ground combat.

I want the IL-2 to be affordable and to work with any setup, but... first of all it is a simulator, you can simulate an air battle without grass, but not a land battle.

 

14 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

don't own TC nor i think cos of microscopic TC MP playerbase rest of us should suffer performance degradation.

Does this apply to the microscopic base of VR players who can't even get the slightest shadow?

 

 

[Ribbon]

5 hours ago, LUZITANO said:

Flying above 100 metres make no significant difference, only if u fly very low cutting grass the FPS drop a little. On ground or flying on deck the difference is about 10 frames only.

But the suggestion is not for planes, I want it to be applied only to tanks because grass and shadows make a lot of difference in ground combat.

I want the IL-2 to be affordable and to work with any setup, but... first of all it is a simulator, you can simulate an air battle without grass, but not a land battle.

 

Does this apply to the microscopic base of VR players who can't even get the slightest shadow?

 

 

For tanks alone grass has sense as same thing is in other MP ground played games where turning off grass give advantage so i get you there.

Maybe server owners could determine those settings at the cost of VR flying playerbase or pure tank server alone.

But when  it comes to air simulation and this is ww2 air combat sim at first than doing it at the cost of VR support it is a huge NO from me, they would lost me as a customer, grass and shadows customization needs to stay as it is.....and yes even 2,3,7....35 and 100m above ground counts as we also fly low and do takeoffs and landings.

But i'm not afraid they will go with your sughestion as it would cripple VR community completley, it's not worth it!

[LUZITANO]

On 2/2/2022 at 8:53 PM, =VARP=Ribbon said:

For tanks alone grass has sense as same thing is in other MP ground played games where turning off grass give advantage so i get you there.

I think my suggestion should not be applied now because many people play IL-2 at 30 fps and they love the simulator.

 

IL-2 is a competitive simulator that has an excellent frame rate, it has had updates before when the game was heavy, but currently it has a good reputation for being competitive and generous with fps.

 

When the pandemic ends, yes, this suggestion is of the first order.

[SharpeXB]

51 minutes ago, LUZITANO said:

because many people play IL-2 at 30 fps and they love the simulator.

How do you know what every other players performance and whether they like it or not? 30 fps is pretty low for an action and combat game. 

[moustache]

a proposal: if I remember correctly, in ARMA 3, the game simulates the grass at a long distance by slightly pushing the object, character and vehicle into the terrain, which makes it possible to simulate the loss of vision due to the grass without losing performance... that could be a good solution, right?

[LUZITANO]

7 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

How do you know what every other players performance and whether they like it or not? 30 fps is pretty low for an action and combat game. 

There are few people with weak setup, actually. But this subject is complicated, at the same time the simulator needs to deliver a beautiful game and this eventually requires a setup that is not that old/weak.
I know some people who play with notebook and integrated graphics, two in fact.
 

3 hours ago, moustache said:

a proposal: if I remember correctly, in ARMA 3, the game simulates the grass at a long distance by slightly pushing the object, character and vehicle into the terrain, which makes it possible to simulate the loss of vision due to the grass without losing performance... that could be a good solution, right?

I think it should be permanent with the tanks and removable when the player chooses a plane. 

How abvout the shadows... is also necessary, clouds create shadows and they affect the whole visual issue. The shadow is part of physics. They need to improve the shadow to a minimal setting that doesn't interfere with systems like VR.

 

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, LUZITANO said:

There are few people with weak setup, actually

again, how do you know the specs of every player’s machine? 

[No_Face]

On 2/3/2022 at 1:53 AM, =VARP=Ribbon said:

But when  it comes to air simulation and this is ww2 air combat sim

Yes but TC is a module of Il-2 Great Battle. So it's not just an air simulation anymore, it's now an air and ground simulation.

 

But just as clouds don't matter much to a tanker, vegetation and shadows don't matter much to a pilot.

 

I agree with you that improving one module should not be at the expense of another, on that I totally agree but maybe there is a way to satisfy both parties.

For example, you say that the vegetation affects you when you fly low or when you are on the runway, ok. The tank players want the vegetation and shadows to be automatically activated, ok.

 

So let's look for a solution, for example, is it possible for the game to automatically activate shadows and vegetation when the player selects a tank and then if that player dies and selects a plane, is it possible for the game to replay shadows and vegetation with the player's settings (at max if his options are at max, at min if his options are at min)?

 

[LUZITANO]

1 minute ago, SharpeXB said:

again, how do you know the specs of every player’s machine? 

When did I say I know EVERYONE's specs?

[SharpeXB]

2 minutes ago, LUZITANO said:

When did I say I know EVERYONE's specs?

How do you know that “are few people with weak setup”? Define “a few”? How do you know what “a few” is unless you knew all the specs in general?

The Devs actually developed the graphic presets and setting options by surveying the performance feedback from early adopters. They have greater access to this info than you do. 

[LUZITANO]

5 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

How do you know that “are few people with weak setup”? Define “a few”? How do you know what “a few” is unless you knew all the specs in general?

The Devs actually developed the graphic presets and setting options by surveying the performance feedback from early adopters. They have greater access to this info than you do. 

You mean the polls, that doesn't give an exact number. Obviously most people who are going to play competitive multiplayer need an average or good computer to have a pleasant performance. But, there are those people with low profile setups (who I don't have the exact number), they are few and they won't be able to play the game with the setup they have, or are at the limit of the performance. I care about these people and at the same time I also want the game to be beautiful, we can't have it both ways, I know, that's why we're discussing this.

Edited February 4, 2022 by LUZITANO

[SharpeXB]

11 minutes ago, LUZITANO said:

You mean the polls, that doesn't give an exact number

It wasn’t a poll, it was a survey thread done back at the beginning of BoS. Grass wasn’t even in the sim at that stage. But again the Devs have a better idea of what the typical player’s specs are. Forcing grass and shadows on would hurt performance and really doesn’t have an effect on gameplay in what’s primarily a flight game. 

[LUZITANO]

3 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Forcing grass and shadows on would hurt performance and really doesn’t have an effect on gameplay in what’s primarily a flight game. 

Tanks are popular in general culture and games, in some years they can be a very considerable part (in %) of the IL-2 Series. I think it's even on par with the air simulator in terms of simulation. Grass and shadows drastically affect ground battles.

[SharpeXB]

34 minutes ago, LUZITANO said:

Grass and shadows drastically affect ground battles.

True. It’s one way that trying to mix an air and ground combat game is problematic. If the tank sim became much more elaborate and developed it would need its own maps with higher levels of detail and also smaller. And settings like this would matter. Right now it’s really a compromise. It’s tanks forced into a flight sim.

[LUZITANO]

36 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s tanks forced into a flight sim.

I got addicted to Tank Crew. I paid for a product that is worth the money invested.