how to destroy soviet locomotives

[Laurwin]

I've been flying recently quick missions and trying rocket and bombing runs for training with sturmovik.

 

I tried to strafe enemy train and I can usually destroy the traincars and the flak-traincars...

 

But the locomotive seems impossible to take out even with AP shells whats up with that?

 

It seems as though  the locomotive is armorplated with impenetrable Stalinium alloy plate?!

 

[Laurwin]

I think I was able to take out german locomotive but it took a lot of hits with 0.50cal all over the locomotive... I wonder if the locomotive can only be destroyed if you hit multiple times directly into the boiler. I've seen some old guncam footage where the locomotive isnt that durable in my opinion. Couple of hits in the steam system should put it out I reckon.

[DD_Fenrir]

In reality actually destroying a steam locomotive with bullets is unlikely, despite what many fighter pilots may have claimed - the best you can aim for is disabling it.

 

Throwing a few bullets at a steel tube designed to contain anything between 180-250lb/sq.in of steam pressure will do little more than punch holes in it causing the steam and water to leak out,  robbing the boiler the ability to make steam pressure and thus preventing the locomotive from being able to move.

 

If the majority of the water then leaks out quickly and the fire is still raging then the firebox could burn out. In some chance case if the water & steam leakage was slow and the fire still raging there could be a situation where enough steam pressure could build to overwhelm the boiler and cause a boiler explosion but a very specific set of circumstances would be required to fulfill these criteria - plus there are safety valves to mitigate this happening.

 

A report exists made by 2nd TAF on the effectiveness on strafing steam locomotives; it is referenced here:

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fja1CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=destruction+of+locomotives+by+strafing&source=bl&ots=y_YxmqjlKX&sig=ACfU3U1hYNynG1ZPkVal3xAlf128prj8_A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjo583KkObsAhXOPsAKHRAOBQcQ6AEwD3oECBIQAg#v=onepage&q=destruction of locomotives by strafing&f=false

 

As for the destruction of railway wagons/trucks/cars, again unless there is something flammable or explosive carried on or in them which you then ignite/detonate with your bullets, it is highly unlikely you'll do more than punch some holes in them.

[vonGraf]

I'd like to have the oppurtunity to destroy the railroads too to stop a train.

Tried and it didn't seem to be possible, I got just a 'crater' decal on the rails, rendered even in 3D but without collision. Didn't bothered the train at all.

[Laurwin]

4 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

In reality actually destroying a steam locomotive with bullets is unlikely, despite what many fighter pilots may have claimed - the best you can aim for is disabling it.

 

Throwing a few bullets at a steel tube designed to contain anything between 180-250lb/sq.in of steam pressure will do little more than punch holes in it causing the steam and water to leak out,  robbing the boiler the ability to make steam pressure and thus preventing the locomotive from being able to move.

 

If the majority of the water then leaks out quickly and the fire is still raging then the firebox could burn out. In some chance case if the water & steam leakage was slow and the fire still raging there could be a situation where enough steam pressure could build to overwhelm the boiler and cause a boiler explosion but a very specific set of circumstances would be required to fulfill these criteria - plus there are safety valves to mitigate this happening.

 

A report exists made by 2nd TAF on the effectiveness on strafing steam locomotives; it is referenced here:

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fja1CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=destruction+of+locomotives+by+strafing&source=bl&ots=y_YxmqjlKX&sig=ACfU3U1hYNynG1ZPkVal3xAlf128prj8_A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjo583KkObsAhXOPsAKHRAOBQcQ6AEwD3oECBIQAg#v=onepage&q=destruction of locomotives by strafing&f=false

 

As for the destruction of railway wagons/trucks/cars, again unless there is something flammable or explosive carried on or in them which you then ignite/detonate with your bullets, it is highly unlikely you'll do more than punch some holes in them.

I suppose ur right. I do remember seeing some ww2 allied gun camera footage where they re strafing locomotive and there comes a huge steam blowout from the locomotive when it gets hit.I'd still reckon that if the boiler gets taken out by too many perforations, It probably wont be able to maintain steam pressure and keep on moving? It would be nice to get atleast some mobility kill credit for ground kill on the locomotive. Locomotive only has the one purpose - move the cargo train on the railroad, so when it gets taken out and cannot move then effectively its a kill I would say. Unless the train engineer / train driver happens to have extra steam system in his pack pocket to replace the battle damage.

 

Heres a good guncam video about the steam locomotive blowout. I think they used 0.50cal for strafe. Notice how heavily the locomotive is peppered all over the locomotive traincar. I doubt the locomotive woudl be able to move very far with this kind of battle damage / number of hits.

 

[Juri_JS]

In the east the Germans had the same problems to destroy locomotives, so they used twin-engined aircraft (He-111 and Ju-88) equipped with bombs, organized in specialized train busting squadrons. Even when no direct hits were scored the bombs could damage the tracks and cause the train to derail (too bad this doesn't work in the game). Some of the bombers used in these mission also had fixed forward guns, but apparently they were only of secondary importance and bombs were more useful.

[jeanba]

1 hour ago, Laurwin said:

I suppose ur right. I do remember seeing some ww2 allied gun camera footage where they re strafing locomotive and there comes a huge steam blowout from the locomotive when it gets hit.I'd still reckon that if the boiler gets taken out by too many perforations, It probably wont be able to maintain steam pressure and keep on moving? It would be nice to get atleast some mobility kill credit for ground kill on the locomotive. Locomotive only has the one purpose - move the cargo train on the railroad, so when it gets taken out and cannot move then effectively its a kill I would say. Unless the train engineer / train driver happens to have extra steam system in his pack pocket to replace the battle damage.

 

Heres a good guncam video about the steam locomotive blowout. I think they used 0.50cal for strafe. Notice how heavily the locomotive is peppered all over the locomotive traincar. I doubt the locomotive woudl be able to move very far with this kind of battle damage / number of hits.

 

The damages are not that heavy.

Holes can be compared to "flat tires" : the locomotive is immobilized but it can be repaired fairly easily with "patches".

 

According to locomotive engineers, the best way to inflict vey high damages was to hit the connecting rods with 20 mm or higher caliber weapons.

You can also kill the engineers

 

It is very hard to destroy a locomotive, short of a direct impact with a bomb.

Most "destroyed" locomotives were actually immobilized locomotives which could not be recovered or were rated as too expensive to repair.

 

For instance, officially, the french railway authority lost only 12 locomotives in 1940 : due to the armistice restriction and the german occupation / requisitions, they knew it would be very hard for them to get a new one, so they repaired everything they could.

On the other hand, in 1944, they knew they would get new locomotives (they assume they would be able to confiscate them to the german and obtain them from the US army), so they did not care and lost "hundreds of them" (90% of the total).

 

But remember that what matters is not to destroy the locomotive but to prevent it deliver the loading to the front, so even though the locomotive in the video is not destroyed, the pilot did his job.

 

Just for information, depending on the technology used for the locomotive but steel thickness was around 20 mm for the boiler on some french locomotives. For other boilers using stringer / frame technology, the skin was much thinner, but the frames thicker.

Boiling water is more dangerous than bullets !!!!

[DD_Fenrir]

Yup!

 

That steam blast you see is pressurised steam and hot water escaping from boiler into the punctured flue tubes; these carry the hot gases from the firebox to the smokebox through the water jacket and help boil the water; normally the only steam coming from the funnel/smokestack is that already used in the cylinders.

 

So yes, the engine is VERY ill in every respect and would undoubtedly struggle to continue for much longer if at all. It would be right in modern parlance to regard it as a mission kill but the loco is not destroyed in the classic sense of the term.

[JG1_Vonrd]

6 hours ago, vonGraf said:

I'd like to have the oppurtunity to destroy the railroads too to stop a train.

Tried and it didn't seem to be possible, I got just a 'crater' decal on the rails, rendered even in 3D but without collision. Didn't bothered the train at all.

yes... this!

 

[Noisemaker]

20 hours ago, vonGraf said:

I'd like to have the oppurtunity to destroy the railroads too to stop a train.

Tried and it didn't seem to be possible, I got just a 'crater' decal on the rails, rendered even in 3D but without collision. Didn't bothered the train at all.

It seems to me that this would be fairly easy to implement by giving that 3D crater decal a hit box.  I know you can derail a train with a tank (Don't ask, just remember to look both ways when crossing a railway), so objects can derail trains.  The crater decal just has to be given an object staus somehow.

[sniperton]

5 hours ago, Noisemaker said:

It seems to me that this would be fairly easy to implement by giving that 3D crater decal a hit box.  I know you can derail a train with a tank (Don't ask, just remember to look both ways when crossing a railway), so objects can derail trains.  The crater decal just has to be given an object staus somehow.

Great idea. Could also be applied to airfields. Same consequences for the undercarriage as running into a crater.

[jeanba]

On 11/3/2020 at 4:33 PM, Juri_JS said:

In the east the Germans had the same problems to destroy locomotives, so they used twin-engined aircraft (He-111 and Ju-88) equipped with bombs, organized in specialized train busting squadrons. Even when no direct hits were scored the bombs could damage the tracks and cause the train to derail (too bad this doesn't work in the game). Some of the bombers used in these mission also had fixed forward guns, but apparently they were only of secondary importance and bombs were more useful.

Your post gave me an idea: a quick mission, flying at low altitude a He111 and attacking a train.

It was quite fun.

I used bombs to destroy the train, but it seems the guns are more usefull to suppress AAA

[jollyjack]

On 11/3/2020 at 1:51 PM, vonGraf said:

I'd like to have the oppurtunity to destroy the railroads too to stop a train.

Tried and it didn't seem to be possible, I got just a 'crater' decal on the rails, rendered even in 3D but without collision. Didn't bothered the train at all.

 

Locs sometimes blow up with a rocket, but bombs work best. Aim for bridges, and the trains take a swim ?

If ever there is some infantry ... The French resistance was known for railway busting.