Oculus rift or something better?

[VikingFjord]

im very tierd of using the top hat on my joystick when Fighting
i want it to be more realistic so when i move my head i move the direction of sight
anyone having any knowlage of Oculus rift works ingame? or do it excist something better?

[LBR=H-Ostermann]

I've heard it's not good for combat flight sims because of it's lower res. We have a member in JG 3 who has one and he says it's fine for his civilian flight sims but he wouldn't use it for BoS or COD.

 

 I'd say get aTrack Ir while they improve the Rift.

[VikingFjord]

i will look at Track Ir Thank you for the tips!

[SR-F_Winger]

I've heard it's not good for combat flight sims because of it's lower res. We have a member in JG 3 who has one and he says it's fine for his civilian flight sims but he wouldn't use it for BoS or COD.

 

 I'd say get aTrack Ir while they improve the Rift.

that only applies for the DevKit V1 and to a certain degree for the DevKit V2 (available from July (August and later if you order today)).

Certainly not for the consumer version (specs not yet known) but most likely a resolution of 1440p (absolutely sufficient for comnbat flightsims and everything else).

Right now TrackIR is the best thing to have for headtracking and immersion in combat flightsims. Paired with a 3 screen setup its awesome. However 3 screen setups suffer from the lack of post effect filters in the Digital Nature Engine.

Edited May 21, 2014 by VSG1_Winger

[Bearcat]

I've heard it's not good for combat flight sims because of it's lower res. We have a member in JG 3 who has one and he says it's fine for his civilian flight sims but he wouldn't use it for BoS or COD.

 

 I'd say get aTrack Ir while they improve the Rift.

 

Absolutely... Track IR is the best solution at the moment.. and IMO it will still be a better solution depending on what you want and your setup even after the OR is released..

 

Track IR 5 bundle (w clip) : $169.95

 

Track IR 4 bundle (w clip) : $119.95

 

Track IR 5 (w hat and vector)  : $149.95

 

Track IR 4 (w hat and vector)  : $99.95

 

The Pro Clip is a device with 3 LEDs that fits on the side of your headset. If you don't mind wearing something on your head when you fly then you can just get the basic TIR that comes with a hat and the vector clip which fits ion the visor. That is what I use and it works just fine. I currentky use a TIR 5 but I still have my TIR 4.. the base broke on me a few years ago but it works just fine. The TIR 5 is smoother but the TIR is not bad either. If money is tight then go for the 4.. if you have the extra $50 to spend then get the 5.. either are great peripherals to have when simming. 

[DD_bongodriver]

For the most part the concept OR is insufficient due to low resolution is purely speculative and based purely on current experience with high resolution monitors, the fact is that the sense of presence the OR gives coupled with the low latency head tracking that actually mimics real life (unlike TIR) and true 3d depth perception actually eliminate some aspects of the lack of resolution, I have the DK1 and my experience is very positive even with low resolution, I expect that my DK2 when it arrives will be just short of ideal and almost certainly the consumer version will be perfect, though I have to say personally I hope I will enjoy being a minority for a little while so I can benefit from the advantage the OR would give me before it becomes mainstream.

[BlueHeron]

+1 for TrackIR.  I would have given up simming a long time ago if not for that little gem.

[SR-F_Winger]

For the most part the concept OR is insufficient due to low resolution is purely speculative and based purely on current experience with high resolution monitors, the fact is that the sense of presence the OR gives coupled with the low latency head tracking that actually mimics real life (unlike TIR) and true 3d depth perception actually eliminate some aspects of the lack of resolution, I have the DK1 and my experience is very positive even with low resolution, I expect that my DK2 when it arrives will be just short of ideal and almost certainly the consumer version will be perfect, though I have to say personally I hope I will enjoy being a minority for a little while so I can benefit from the advantage the OR would give me before it becomes mainstream.

Seems youre just up with me on that one:)

I ordered on day one when DK2 came preorderable. You too?

I still hope possibly there will eb late june shipments for the early preorders.

 

And did you hear the latest rumor that DK2 might even get an inbuilt seethrough camera wich could also be utilized for either positional tracking (tracking dots on the walls and therefor negate the use for the second, TIR-like camerasetup the Crystal cove had) or recognition of gestures (like the kinect)?

 

I cannot wait to do low flythrough the streets of stalingrad with 700 kph and feel the buildings slip by at a distance so it feels you could actually touch them.

Also flying in formation will become so much easier witht he higher FOV and bigger immersion. I am tired of looking thru a window instead of feeling like i am there.

DK1 got me sold the moment i started screaming when i used the riftcoaster the first time:)

Edited May 21, 2014 by VSG1_Winger

[Matt]

OR is not an alternative to TrackIR for BoS yet, because it's not supported (yet) and the consumer version of the OR will still take some time.

 

I can highly recommend TrackIR and if mine would go broke now, I would order a new one right away.

 

I did preorder the OR DK2 though and I'm definitely looking forward to it and hope that BoS will support it eventually.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Matt

[SR-F_Winger]

OR is not an alternative to TrackIR for BoS yet, because it's not supported (yet) and the consumer version of the OR will still take some time.

 

I can highly recommend TrackIR and if mine would go broke now, I would order a new one right away.

 

I did preorder the OR DK2 though and I'm definitely looking forward to it and hope that BoS will support it eventually.

I would sign that as mentioned above.

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

I also have DK2 ordered , but recent revelations from Loft make me think that we won't see native support in BoS for a while.

[JG27_Chivas]

TrackIR is "currently" an absolute must for combat flight sims, and a huge immersion boost over a hat switch, but no where near the immersion boost that the Oculus Rift will provide. 

[JG27_Chivas]

It appears that BOS doesn't have the time and money to provide support for the Oculus Rift anytime soon.  The OR might require a high steady frame rate for optimal use, which could be a problem to attain, especially with complex combat flight sims.  I've ordered the DK2 and I'm looking forward to trying the unit in sims like DCS, and WT that currently support the hardware.  It will be interesting to see how resolution and frame rate effect the newest OR prototype.

[Georgio]

Hopefully when the OR and similar are mainstream then the support will be at GPU driver level so totally independant of title support. Might be a while but personally I've been waiting twenty odd years for this tech to mature so a few more isn't going to break the bank as it were.

Waiting for the CV1 as a (relative) VR virgin; I don't want any foreplay just a home run on the first date... :D

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 TrackIR or any similar device is a must for flight simming. It takes off a huge workload from you and makes flying more natural in a sense. The Oculus Rift and similar devices will, as they mature, be the logical next step to get. I was tempted to get the DK2, but I think I will pass and go for the TrackIR 5 for now and see how the OR or equivalents fare at their release.

[SYN_Saintblu]

With a little digging you most likely can get the dk2 up and running with bos before they fully support it. It won't be native support at first and the 3d effect would be limited... But it would get the job done.

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

Any success with DK1? I know there are few people here who have DK1 , did you manage to get RoF or BoS working?

[DD_bongodriver]

I watched a video on youtube where somebody got a really good setup with ROF working with full 3d depth and good FOV, I have tried BOS via  a 3rd party driver called Vorpx, but didn't find it particularly good, no appreciable 3d depth.

 

if you have a rift and ROF watch this video in HD on the rift, pretty good.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7TilGDjqI0

Edited May 22, 2014 by DD_bongodriver

[VikingFjord]

guess i will stick with the TrackIR 5 until Sony's VR is out and running smooth
and i should also look into changing my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro that i have used for awhile now..
in my 17yrs of flying i never had a fancy stick *lol* perhaps the time for it

[DD_bongodriver]

Sony's VR is for playstation only.

[Uufflakke]

The Chinese also develop their own virtual reality device called  ANTVR with with full HD display (1920x1080, 1.03 megapixel per eye)

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/805968217/antvr-kit-all-in-one-universal-virtual-reality-kit?ref=discovery

 

According their plan mass production in August, assembly and shipment in September already.

Don't know much about all the technical info but good to know to have the option to still see your keyboard if you prefer to do so.

 

 

We will see.

[VikingFjord]

Sony's VR is for playstation only.

i was waiting for that one!

and making a VR for only one platform isnt very smart either..limit the customer base

[DD_bongodriver]

i was waiting for that one!

and making a VR for only one platform isnt very smart either..limit the customer base

 

Well in Sony's case it's limiting the the customer base to playstation users, it's not a completely bad move because it could push playstation sales up.

 

Just go for the Oculus, it will be the only unit with custom made components and if any other competitors emerge they will all be feeding off of Oculus surplus and likely to be a generation behind.

[SacaSoh]

Also, in Sony's case you can be sure that the res will be at most 1080p, as the PS4 barely can run a 1080p title at 30fps. Just check the new releases like Watch Dogs: 900p@30fps, and the devs of "The Witcher" lubing the PS base saying that "720p to 1080p doesn't matter".

You can be sure that only oculus will have a display with the pixel density need for a flight sim, maybe not on first release, but I'm sure that eventually a 4K edition will be available (and I hope by then a $300 GPU can run it fine).

 

Stick with TrackIR until Rift consumer version arrives, then check the reviews here :-)

[SR-F_Winger]

The Chinese also develop their own virtual reality device called  ANTVR with with full HD display (1920x1080, 1.03 megapixel per eye)

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/805968217/antvr-kit-all-in-one-universal-virtual-reality-kit?ref=discovery

 

According their plan mass production in August, assembly and shipment in September already.

Don't know much about all the technical info but good to know to have the option to still see your keyboard if you prefer to do so.

 

 

We will see.

They are no true VR. Only a HMD, nothing more.

If you ask me they just want a piece of the cake. I wouldnt waste my money on this one.

There is nothing good to read about them on VR websites. Just some "i can too" cheapos.

Stick with TrackIR until Rift consumer version arrives, then check the reviews here :-)

This. But - CV1 will most likely have no less than 1440p display and will therefor be sufficient for combat flightsimming.

In July latest i can tell you if the DK2 will be sufficient:)

[Panzerlang]

Here's a question...I have a 30" monitor at 2560 x 1600. Using magnifying specs (used for modelling) I can see the grid/pixel pattern very clearly at approx 3" range. Will the Rift's resolution be superior to this with/without clever optics between the eyes and screens? Because if not it won't be useable for a flight combat sim in my opinion.

 

Edit. Using a ruler I can see approx 3 pixels per millimeter. What will the Rift's screens manage (does anyone know)?

Edited May 23, 2014 by II/JG3Siggi

[DD_bongodriver]

So far it has been said that the DK2 has significantly improved the issue of screen door effect and in all likelihood it will be eliminated completely in the CV, even in the DK1 the screen door effect can be ignored as long as the visual scene is engaging enough.

[SR-F_Winger]

Here's a question...I have a 30" monitor at 2560 x 1600. Using magnifying specs (used for modelling) I can see the grid/pixel pattern very clearly at approx 3" range. Will the Rift's resolution be superior to this with/without clever optics between the eyes and screens? Because if not it won't be useable for a flight combat sim in my opinion.

 

Edit. Using a ruler I can see approx 3 pixels per millimeter. What will the Rift's screens manage (does anyone know)?

This is the phenomenon the DK1 suffers greatly from. The so called "Screendoor effect".

With the DK2 there will be 1080p pixels on a 7" screen. Instead of 720p on a 7" screen with the DK1. So the effect will be reduced but still noticeable (from what i heard of people that tried the Crystal Cove (DK2) prototype).

The CV1 will most likely have 1440p and with that a high enough resolution that screendoor will no longer be an issue.

What matters is the pixel density. Not necessarily the overall resolution fo the screen.

Edited May 23, 2014 by VSG1_Winger

[Panzerlang]

This is the phenomenon the DK1 suffers greatly from. The so called "Screendoor effect".

With the DK2 there will be 1080p pixels on a 7" screen. Instead of 720p on a 7" screen with the DK1. So the effect will be reduced but still noticeable (from what i heard of people that tried the Crystal Cove (DK2) prototype).

The CV1 will most likely have 1440p and with that a high enough resolution that screendoor will no longer be an issue.

What matters is the pixel density. Not necessarily the overall resolution fo the screen.

 

That's what I'm asking about. The pixel-density on my monitor at the stated res is approx three pixels per millimeter and it's not enough.

 

A quick bit of maths, that I've probably done wrong, says approx 6 pixels per millimeter on a 1080 rez on a 7" screen.

Edited May 23, 2014 by II/JG3Siggi

[SR-F_Winger]

That's what I'm asking about. The pixel-density on my monitor at the stated res is approx three pixels per millimeter and it's not enough.

 

A quick bit of maths, that I've probably done wrong, says approx 6 pixels per millimeter on a 1080 rez on a 7" screen.

you should go here. There are numerous threads on this matter:

www.mtbs3d.com

[Matt]

Because of the optical lenses, pixel per angle is the important number, not pixel per inch (or mm or whatever).

 

But i think just calculating things is useless. I'm pretty sure that even with 1440p (maybe even up to 4k), you'll easily be able to spot pixels. The question is if that's going to bother you alot. That can only be checked, by testing it yourself.

 

That's pretty much why i ordered the DK2 in the first place. If it's too bad for me, i'll sell it right away, which should be pretty easy and without loss, as opposed to the CV1 for instance, which will be readily avaliable in sufficient numbers. If the 1080p of the DK2 is OK for me, i'll probably keep it until a CV2 is avaliable (unless the CV1 will have more than 1440p in the first place, which is a bit doubtful).

 

Let's not forget that FPS will also be very important for these VR devices. And a crazy high resolution needs the hardware to power it. BoS does not really have a very stable FPS (atleast for me).

[DD_bongodriver]

Why is CV1 1440p doubtful?, they now have the money to have bespoke screens, fps might not be the big issue people make out, the VR device won't have a resolution much beyond current monitors and if well implemented the software could selectively display on the relevant device i.e. in game all is on rift and the main monitor can be disabled and only used for GUI when not in gameplay, with a high resolution screen there is always the option to turn down game resolution to improve fps but we still benefit from the high pixel density of the screen.

[Matt]

More than 1440p is doubtful. Less than 1440p is doubtful too.

 

So yes, 1440p is the most likely resolution it will have.

 

About FPS, i've not tried the OR yet of course, but for me, everything above 30 FPS is alright on a monitor, but according to most opinions, anything less than 60 FPS will be totally insufficient for VR.

 

But it's right that a high resolution screen should be better, even when running with lower resolution.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Matt

[JG27_Chivas]

It will be interesting to see how visible the pixels will be, and how much it actually effects the experience.   The OR development can now afford to have a display made to best suit their needs to match the current hardware that will drive the display, and have new displays made to match future improvements and features in later consumer releases.  I've ordered the DK2, as I don't see any consumer versions being released for atleast another year.  Hopefully the consumer release happens sooner.  Overall it won't be that expensive if they still sell the consumer version at cost, and I time selling the prototype properly.

[chiliwili69]

I also have DK2 ordered , but recent revelations from Loft make me think that we won't see native support in BoS for a while.

 

What revelations from Loft are you referring to?

 

My expectations for Rift support are for Dec-2014, after the BoS team have had time to test/adjust the DK2 and eventually the specs of the CV1.

 

I have DK1 and ordered DK2 the first day they announced.

 

It is sad to say that I prefer to use my free time in other Oculus supportted games rather than playing BoS in flat monitors, being BoS/RoF superior to all other games.

[chiliwili69]

I watched a video on youtube where somebody got a really good setup with ROF working with full 3d depth and good FOV, I have tried BOS via  a 3rd party driver called Vorpx, but didn't find it particularly good, no appreciable 3d depth.

 

if you have a rift and ROF watch this video in HD on the rift, pretty good.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7TilGDjqI0

 

Superb!, Very good flight with DK1, I saw it in the past but without Oculus. All people should try it with DK1 to understand that resolution is not so important here.

 

The only problem with Videos with Oculus is that you are not the owner of the head, but it is enough to get the feeling.

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

Hi Chilli,

 

Read Discussion of "Questions for Developers" thread , there was a discussion with Loft about Oculus support in BoS an the draw your own conclusions.

 

Salute.