ATAG/TF3 servers planeset

[5th_Hellrider]

It has already been suggested by someone, but I want to reiterate it further: it would be nice to have more varied planesets and related to the mission year.

 

Otherwise you always end up playing only with the same planes (109 F4 and Spit V), without being able to enjoy the many other planes present in il2 Desert Wings. Surely someone could answer that everyone is free to take the plane they want, but online people will almost always take the best plane available (also for compensate their size ?).

 

Among the map rotations on the Tobruk server, I would propose 3 different planesets (*):

-1941: Cr42, G50, 109E7 (limited in numbers) and Gladiator, Hurri

-1942: add the C.202, 109F2 and P40, Martlet

-1943: add 109 F4 (**) and Spit V 

 

I would also like to pay attention to the Battle of France. The 109 E4s should be removed and the Spits should only take off from England. Remember to put France as a nation, to have the correct markings on the D520s.

 

I understand that having a free planeset is more comfortable, especially for new players, but variation is better. Also, let's face it, there are very few new players on CloD/Dw. They are always the same ones who have been shooting with 109 and Spit for at least 8 years.

 

* I have only listed the fighters; the bombers are always more or less good, and nobody looks at them (unfortunately).

** The 109 F4 was already heavily present in the '42, but it would bring a big advantage to the blues in game. So I would say to put it only in the missions where the Spit is present. A small historical license for playability. ?

 

I hope I have given some interesting inputs.

 

 

 

[Barnacles]

3 minutes ago, 5th_Hellrider said:

It has already been suggested by someone, but I want to reiterate it further: it would be nice to have more varied planesets and related to the mission year.

 

Otherwise you always end up playing only with the same planes (109 F4 and Spit V), without being able to enjoy the many other planes present in il2 Desert Wings. Surely someone could answer that everyone is free to take the plane they want, but online people will almost always take the best plane available (also for compensate their size ?).

 

Among the map rotations on the Tobruk server, I would propose 3 different planesets (*):

-1941: Cr42, G50, 109E7 (limited in numbers) and Gladiator, Hurri

-1942: add the C.202, 109F2 and P40, Martlet

-1943: add 109 F4 (**) and Spit V 

 

I would also like to pay attention to the Battle of France. The 109 E4s should be removed and the Spits should only take off from England. Remember to put France as a nation, to have the correct markings on the D520s.

 

I understand that having a free planeset is more comfortable, especially for new players, but variation is better. Also, let's face it, there are very few new players on CloD/Dw. They are always the same ones who have been shooting with 109 and Spit for at least 8 years.

 

* I have only listed the fighters; the bombers are always more or less good, and nobody looks at them (unfortunately).

** The 109 F4 was already heavily present in the '42, but it would bring a big advantage to the blues in game. So I would say to put it only in the missions where the Spit is present. A small historical license for playability. ?

 

I hope I have given some interesting inputs.

 

 

 

Speaking only for myself, yes please!

It would make me try the server again if there were more varied planesets.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Yeah!! The E-4 should be removed from the Battle of France for historical purposes. For flying he E-4s or the F-2s and F-4s vs the Mk IIbs and Mk Vs, our servers could present missions with the Channel map in autumn (after the Battle of Britain), or the Channel map in winter (1940-1941).

 

I do agree with the idea of the three rotating plane sets for the North-African theater of operations.

 

For the possessors of BLITZ and Tobruk it is possible to represent accurate scenarios in the Channel map like the Battle of Abbeville, the Battle of Amiens, the Battle of Dunkirk, the Battle of Britain, and a few low important skirmishes over the Channel in the second half of 1940 and in 1941/1942. In those latter periods, types such as the E-4s, E-7s, F-2s and F-4s will satisfy the 109 fans... same as the Spitfire fans and the Hurricane fans.

 

And, concerning mid-1942 and the second half of 1942... the modelling of hordes of Lancasters would be more than welcome... 

[5th_Barone]

10 hours ago, 5th_Hellrider said:

It has already been suggested by someone, but I want to reiterate it further: it would be nice to have more varied planesets and related to the mission year.

 

Otherwise you always end up playing only with the same planes (109 F4 and Spit V), without being able to enjoy the many other planes present in il2 Desert Wings. Surely someone could answer that everyone is free to take the plane they want, but online people will almost always take the best plane available (also for compensate their size ?).

 

Among the map rotations on the Tobruk server, I would propose 3 different planesets (*):

-1941: Cr42, G50, 109E7 (limited in numbers) and Gladiator, Hurri

-1942: add the C.202, 109F2 and P40, Martlet

-1943: add 109 F4 (**) and Spit V 

 

I would also like to pay attention to the Battle of France. The 109 E4s should be removed and the Spits should only take off from England. Remember to put France as a nation, to have the correct markings on the D520s.

 

I understand that having a free planeset is more comfortable, especially for new players, but variation is better. Also, let's face it, there are very few new players on CloD/Dw. They are always the same ones who have been shooting with 109 and Spit for at least 8 years.

 

* I have only listed the fighters; the bombers are always more or less good, and nobody looks at them (unfortunately).

** The 109 F4 was already heavily present in the '42, but it would bring a big advantage to the blues in game. So I would say to put it only in the missions where the Spit is present. A small historical license for playability. ?

 

I hope I have given some interesting inputs.

 

 

 

Yes please.

 

Also would be nice to have the correct nations (since the game has the option).

In the missions often the nation are DEvsGB and US (that they shouldn't even be present in some maps).

Too often Italians and French are missing a base while their aircraft are still flyible but with the wrong markings.

[OBT-Mikmak]

Totally agree with you Hellrider.

Challenge oneself with the modest planes is much more interesting indeed.  ?

[FTC_Karaya]

Most missions would benefit from the blocking of the most performant fighter types of the respective periods, that includes the old BoB Channel missions as well.

Whenever there's the E-4/N or SpitIIa available, people gravitate towards those out of fear of not being competitive in anything else. On the other hand when they are very limited or unavailable, we usually see more variety in the air including the (by now) rare Hurricanes and 110Cs.

 

That's why I would love to see these two fighter models be removed from the majority of ATAG maps. Blue would then have the 109E-1, E-3, E-4 and some E-3/B & E-4/Bs as well as the whole 110C family while Red has the Rotol 100oct versions of the Spitfire Mk.I & Hurricane Mk.I and Mk.I FB as well as the Beaufigher Mk.IF and the D.520 where these two latter fit in.

 

The same applies to the 109F-4 and SpitV of Desert Wings. These two models are so dominant that they completely topple the balance online so restrictions should be placed upon them. What will hopefully also be possible in the near future is for mission makers to enforce minimum fuel loads for aircraft within online missions.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Karaya

[5th_Hellrider]

I fully agree, Karaya. I've always hated seeing the 109 E4N and Spit II on the server (I've never used them). They are head and shoulders above others, and a lot. Especially the E4N is truly superior to the normal E4. In reality it was a rare aircraft, built in few numbers (I think only 15).

As you said, these two planes can monopolize a map, making the other planes in the planeset useless.

 

Probably these things had to be thought long ago (years ago), before several pilots moved to other sims (primarily Il2 BoS).

 

Another sensitive topic are the stats, but I will open another topic. Stay tuned! ?

[ITAF_Airone1989]

I was thinking about creating a Desert Wing event for the weekend, similar to what I'm doing for the BoB ...
Date: 31 dec 1940 (Capodanno a Tobruk ? )
Any idea about the planeset?
I thought about:
-) Cr.42
-) G.50 @ATAG_Noofy
-) Ju-87
-) Br-20

+) Hurricane (which version?)
+) Gladiator (Not sure if they were in Africa)
+) Blenheim (which version?)

[5th_Barone]

That would be great Airone!

 

On the autumn of the 1939 the RAFin Egypt situation should have been this (considering only in-game available planes):

Gladiators:

112sq based at Helwan

33sq based at Mersa Matruth

80sq based at Amriya

Blenheims:

113sq based at Heliopolis

30 & 55 sq based at Ismailia

45sq based at Fuka

211sq based at Daba

 

So for sure there were gladiators, also looking at photos the blenheim looks like mkI or mkII and then later also mkIV.

The first hurricanes should have arrived in June of 1940 when war started with Italy with 80sq and then with the 28 & 33 even if in few numbers. They were then starting to delivered more to the frontline squadrons (I think probably mkI due to the time frame?).

Also at the beginning of december Wellingtons partecipated in the desert air war.

 

Speaking of december... the 19th of dec 1940 the italians officialy asked the help of the Germany who should have sent:

Ju88, Ju87,Bf109 (even tho the 109s I think appeared in the front only in spring of 41).

 

Regarding the Regia Aeronautica the cr42 & g50 seems appropiate since the mc200 wasn't present until summer 41 and the mc202 until novemebr 41.

 

So the planeset composed by:

RED

Hurricane

Blenheim

Gladiator

Wellington

 

BLUE

Ju88

Ju87

Cr42

G50

 

seems plausible, does anyone have more info about it?

Edited October 20, 2020 by 5th_Barone

[ITAF_Airone1989]

38 minutes ago, 5th_Barone said:

So the planeset composed by:

RED

Hurricane

Blenheim

Gladiator

Wellington

 

BLUE

Ju88

Ju87

Cr42

G50

 

 

I like this...
Any informations about the battle front?

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

A Tobruk event in the same format as BoB is a good idea. Just make  sure to not overlap with TF official events. As I don’t think we have enough players to run two events concurrently (same evening).

 

Regarding planesets, I would maybe move the timeframe to the beginning of 1941 to include the 109E-7 and Bf 110 on the blue side as to attract as many players as possible.

 

31.01.1941 arrival of III/ZG 26 with Bf 110
 

14.04.1941 arrival of the first Staffel of I/JG 27 with Bf 109E-4 and E-7 trops. 

On the 18. the rest of the I. Gruppe arrived.

First sortie on 19.04.
They were joined by 7./JG 26 in June with 109E-7 non-trop, which stayed until the end of August.

By this time (June) there were also Tomahawks there.

 

14.09.1941 4./JG 27 arrived with Bf 109F-2, first mission 26.09. The whole of II/JG 27 flew F-2 at this time.

 

06.12.1941 III/JG 53 arrived with Bf 109F-4 and stayed for two weeks.

 

January 1942 saw JG 27 with Bf 109F-4 and Kittyhawks were in the scene already.

 

May 1942 the first Spitfires arrived.

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by 9./JG52_J-HAT
109s in April 1941!

[ITAF_Airone1989]

1 minute ago, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

A Tobruk event in the same format as BoB is a good idea. Just make  sure to not overlap with TF official events. As I don’t think we have enough players to run two events concurrently (same evening).

Yes, I will try to organize it for the day that is free.

 

 

4 minutes ago, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

Regarding planesets, I would maybe move the timeframe to the beginning of 1941 to include the 109E-7 and Bf 110 on the blue side as to attract as many players as possible.

We have plenty of servers with this planeset, why not to try somenthing different? Otherwise the early planes are basically useless...
And, if there will be enough players, we can introduce the laters planes in subsequent missions...

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

11 minutes ago, ITAF_Airone1989 said:

We have plenty of servers with this planeset, why not to try somenthing different? Otherwise the early planes are basically useless...
And, if there will be enough players, we can introduce the laters planes in subsequent missions...

I think many players will be put off by not having the German types.
But I don’t see why not try it out starting at the beginning with early planes and move forward until these planes become available (timeline above). And see what happens. Maybe the first missions don’t get as many players but then they start joining for the 109/110 later on.
 

I can (could in the past at least) fly the Ju 88, so no problem for me.

 

 

Frontlines:

Edited October 20, 2020 by 9./JG52_J-HAT

[5th_Barone]

Sunday maybe could be an option since most atag event are on Saturdays?

 

The British captured Sidi Barrani the 10th Dec and five days later also Sollum and Halfaya.

The 5th of January also Bardia was taken.
So if we consider a first of the year scenario I think that the front line would be in the zone between Amseat and Bardia?

 

The best would be finding some charts of the era. We can do a research on the net.

[5th_Hellrider]

I finally can join if it is in the weekend. 

 

In my opinion, have also the 109 (E7 trop in this case) and the 110 can help to have more players. Something like half 1941. The problem is no have the Macchi 200. And Brits need the Hurricane Mk II.

All these planes dominate the two biplanes. 

 

But also December '40 is good. 

Maybe we can run a first mission late '40 and next week a second one for late' 41 (so we have the Macchi 202, Tomahawk and Martlet). 

[56RAF_Stickz]

8 hours ago, ITAF_Airone1989 said:

I was thinking about creating a Desert Wing event for the weekend, similar to what I'm doing for the BoB ...
Date: 31 dec 1940 (Capodanno a Tobruk ? )
Any idea about the planeset?
I thought about:
-) Cr.42
-) G.50 @ATAG_Noofy
-) Ju-87
-) Br-20

+) Hurricane (which version?)
+) Gladiator (Not sure if they were in Africa)
+) Blenheim (which version?)

1940 hurricane 1 only, and only a couple of squadrons of them at that time, The II didnt arrive til mid to late41 (would have to check) but Malta actually took their original arrivals as they did some of the hurri 1s originally destined for the WDA. Around that time they started using the hurri 1 with bombs 9after 11s arrived). First tomahawks in 41, to all intents and purposes arrive a little after jg27 with its E7s in April.

Galdiator used extensively in Africa until mid41 thereabouts (but not as long as the cr42).

blenheims had mk1 (although we cant fly them anyway) and iv in both fighter (including some with a bloody 20mm cannon installed into the cockpit) and bomber versions. And the wellington bomber.

The ju87 probably makes a reasonable substitute for the br65 and the Italians did fly them later anyway when LW arrived.

Edited October 20, 2020 by 56RAF_Stickz

[OBT-Mikmak]

8 hours ago, 5th_Barone said:

RED

Hurricane

Blenheim

Gladiator

Wellington

 

BLUE

Ju88

Ju87

Cr42

G50

 

I like this planeset too.

IMHO the idea of limiting the planeset according time period is what will give new interest to the missions.

[messsucher]

20 minutes ago, OBT-Mikmak said:

 

I like this planeset too.

IMHO the idea of limiting the planeset according time period is what will give new interest to the missions.

 

The time period is not meaningful if the planes are out of the time period.

[OBT-Mikmak]

@Messsucher, I am not sure to understand what you are meaning... ?

[messsucher]

26 minutes ago, OBT-Mikmak said:

@Messsucher, I am not sure to understand what you are meaning... ?

 

You can't make an early war scenario with planes from late or mid war. People were talking about autumn of the 1939. The point of early war is that the planes are early war too, meaning "bad" as some call them.

[OBT-Mikmak]

This is exatly what i said with "limiting the planeset according time period".

With another words, using planes historically available at the considered time period.

There is no "bad" plane if the historical planeset is respected.

A "bad" plane can be "good" with a good pilot.

A "good" plane can be "bad" with a bad pilot.

Edited October 21, 2020 by OBT-Mikmak

[messsucher]

That's why I wrote "as some call them". There is no bad planes for me, having the most flight hours in Gloster Gladiator.

[5th_Hellrider]

Confusion time. ?

[ATAG_Flare]

On 10/20/2020 at 4:42 AM, 5th_Barone said:

So the planeset composed by:

RED

Hurricane

Blenheim

Gladiator

Wellington

 

BLUE

Ju88

Ju87

Cr42

G50

 

seems plausible, does anyone have more info about it?

 

All I would add is the BR20 since we don't have the SM79 in CloD.

[5th_Barone]

1 hour ago, ATAG_Flare said:

 

All I would add is the BR20 since we don't have the SM79 in CloD.

 

Yes definitely a good idea!