Operational importance of WW1 aircraft

[messsucher]

I think it was said during WW2 that he who have air superiority will win the wars in the future. This trivia information is not important. But what is interesting is what happened in WW1, if you fly WW1 aircraft. How important the air forces were? Did they matter at all, if for example Russia and Ottoman barely had any? One could imagine reconnaissance flights would had been important in some cases, which could soon lead to a need to have fighters to put an end to reconnaissance flights. This is speculation however. What happened in real? how WW1 air forces developed and how they role was defined and changed during the war?

 

Is there any good reading about the subject? I have to say I am annoyingly clueless about the role of air forces in WW1.

[unreasonable]

They mattered on the Western front, initially for recce: aircraft identified the German change of direction during the initial advance towards the Paris allowing the Entente forces to reorganise and then win the Battle of the Marne. Once the front bogged down into trench warfare, artillery observation and trench photography was vital.  Bombing - including strategic bombing - was tried but usually fairly ineffective, tactical ground attack also developed later but it was not decisive, although as in WW2 the infantry absolutely hated being attacked from the air. The scouts were there to protect their own recce, observation and bombing planes and deny airspace to the enemy.

 

A good overall survey to get started with is "The Great War in the Air - Military Aviation 1909-1921" by John H Morrow. Pub. Smithsonian.   Amazon has it. I think this has what you need: it discusses the development of the air forces, and how they dealt with organisational, tactical and technical problems.  Then there are some excellent memoirs that give more of the flavour of what it was like to be a pilot, or look at the exploits of the Red Baron etc in detail, but I recommend starting with Morrow's book.  

[No.23_Gaylion]

Oh man, yes, there are a wealth of good books out there outlining the evolution of air power during this period and it is absolutely FACINATING!

 

It's very easy to shrug off this period as 'wood and wire, lawnmower engine, kites, etc.' when looking at it from a technologically superior or modern standpoint- WWII and on. One might initially see a plane on face value and be bored with canvas, but when you dive into the tactics, the methods, the thoughts on uses, to read about the governments at the highest levels debating the use of the plane, it's an amazing period to look back and read about. To think that modern day dogfighting rules are still dictated by the things these guys learn it is absolutely remarkable and I think that any lover of combat aviation should have an understanding of the trials and errors that these guys were dealing with. The reconnaissance aspect alone: adjusting artillery with no radio, communication of where friendly ground forces are, the photography of the battlefield and its analysis- all sorts of things that we take for granted in modern war today are absolutely intriguing. The combat tactics employed and the aircraft themselves and how they evolve each year. You have people here who think that boom and zoom didn't exist as a tactic when its clearly written in training manuals. My God, the training too. You have people going to the front with 14 hours flying time total. Imagine being that boy going into combat like that.  When you dive into this you end up breaking through this myth of the "knights of the air", "chivalry" and such, when it can clearly be shown its boys killing boys in war and no doubt about it.

 

All of which all can be said the same for the ground war over the same period. It is truly a wonderful time to read about, both on the air and ground when you push out those broad generalized definitions that people like to use when speaking of the period. 

 

Start here with Cecil Lewis talking about his time in the RFC. If this interview doesn't snag you- when he talks about flying through an artillery barage and SEEING motar shells hanging in the air at their apex, when he describes dogfights, if it doesn't pique your interest I don't know what would.

 

 

Edit to add more to your point-

 

Reconnaissance and surveillance was very important but it is unfairly overshadowed by the work of the "aces" or fighter aircraft. Two seater reconnaissance planes were vastly more important to the war effort and the invention or development of the single seat fighter was strictly to find and shoot down enemy reconnaissance planes. 

 

The romance of the ace and his "kill count" has had a direct impact on the way the WWI air war was/is discussed. Nobody wants to read about the observer taking pictures which directly affected ground war operations. They want to read about the guy with 84 planes shot down.

 

Expanding upon this, you have the entire subject of the balloon corps that are relegated to the historical dustbin. These balloons were tremendously effective and very little spoken of. 

 

Going back, reconnaissance and surveillance was instrumental to the war effort. You just gotta look past all the stuff about aces and dogfighting, though the two seaters developed a way of combat fighting on their own which was equally interesting.

 

I recommend this book:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Eyes-All-Over-Sky-Reconnaissance/dp/1612003672/ref=asc_df_1612003672/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312126490544&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18323264679384393107&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010832&hvtargid=pla-561904771808&psc=1

Edited October 9, 2020 by US93_Talbot

[messsucher]

Thank you very much, good info, realized I must know more. I only buy books from Google Play Books, The Great War in the Air was not available there, that reconnaissance book was there, have to get it at some point, but for starters have to try how this is for overall picture:

 

https://play.google.com/store/books/details/Alan_Sutton_Military_Aviation_of_the_First_World_W?id=EQm3DgAAQBAJ

 

This WW1 Aviation is a bit whole new world, very curious to know more of it and then be better prepared to sit in WW1 plane cockpit, knowing why I am there. When was 14 or so with Red Baron did not have to know much, the reason it is awesome was enough, but now want to know more ?

[ST_Catchov]

7 hours ago, US93_Talbot said:

Oh man, yes, there are a wealth of good books out there outlining the evolution of air power during this period and it is absolutely FACINATING!

 

It's very easy to shrug off this period as 'wood and wire, lawnmower engine, kites, etc.' when looking at it from a technologically superior or modern standpoint- WWII and on. One might initially see a plane on face value and be bored with canvas, but when you dive into the tactics, the methods, the thoughts on uses, to read about the governments at the highest levels debating the use of the plane, it's an amazing period to look back and read about. To think that modern day dogfighting rules are still dictated by the things these guys learn it is absolutely remarkable and I think that any lover of combat aviation should have an understanding of the trials and errors that these guys were dealing with. The reconnaissance aspect alone: adjusting artillery with no radio, communication of where friendly ground forces are, the photography of the battlefield and its analysis- all sorts of things that we take for granted in modern war today are absolutely intriguing. The combat tactics employed and the aircraft themselves and how they evolve each year. You have people here who think that boom and zoom didn't exist as a tactic when its clearly written in training manuals. My God, the training too. You have people going to the front with 14 hours flying time total. Imagine being that boy going into combat like that.  When you dive into this you end up breaking through this myth of the "knights of the air", "chivalry" and such, when it can clearly be shown its boys killing boys in war and no doubt about it.

 

All of which all can be said the same for the ground war over the same period. It is truly a wonderful time to read about, both on the air and ground when you push out those broad generalized definitions that people like to use when speaking of the period. 

 

Start here with Cecil Lewis talking about his time in the RFC. If this interview doesn't snag you- when he talks about flying through an artillery barage and SEEING motar shells hanging in the air at their apex, when he describes dogfights, if it doesn't pique your interest I don't know what would.

 

 

Edit to add more to your point-

 

Reconnaissance and surveillance was very important but it is unfairly overshadowed by the work of the "aces" or fighter aircraft. Two seater reconnaissance planes were vastly more important to the war effort and the invention or development of the single seat fighter was strictly to find and shoot down enemy reconnaissance planes. 

 

The romance of the ace and his "kill count" has had a direct impact on the way the WWI air war was/is discussed. Nobody wants to read about the observer taking pictures which directly affected ground war operations. They want to read about the guy with 84 planes shot down.

 

Expanding upon this, you have the entire subject of the balloon corps that are relegated to the historical dustbin. These balloons were tremendously effective and very little spoken of. 

 

Going back, reconnaissance and surveillance was instrumental to the war effort. You just gotta look past all the stuff about aces and dogfighting, though the two seaters developed a way of combat fighting on their own which was equally interesting.

 

I recommend this book:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Eyes-All-Over-Sky-Reconnaissance/dp/1612003672/ref=asc_df_1612003672/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312126490544&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18323264679384393107&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010832&hvtargid=pla-561904771808&psc=1

 

 

You've nailed it Talby. It would be hard to sum it up any better than this. So I won't even try. A truly fascinating period indeed. And those planes! Remarkable.

[messsucher]

That video is priceless. I have done professional photography, so was especially interesting to hear him explain how the camera he had was like made by ancient Greeks ? It is a bit rude I would say how time goes by.

 

Excellent talker he is too, very enthusiastic and lively, make you almost be there yourself ? Have to say all the bombarding and fighting near no man's land had to feel very surreal, I think, especially when looked from an aircraft.

Edited October 9, 2020 by messsucher

[No.23_Gaylion]

And it goes quite well with experiences in FC...

 

 

[messsucher]

Yeah, what came to my mind is that the old navy style saying "planes were wooden and men were steel" is very fitting in WW1. Before the first video had not thought about reloading the gun, but after listening the description how it was done and as a motorcyclist realizing what it really involved in 200 km/h up in the sky even without an enemy in your tail. Serious business. No parachutes either as a last unreliable life insurance.

 

No radio, this would go very well hand in hand with dog fighting servers. Not so much with organized events, everyone in TS. Would be a big immersion killer to hear casual TS quality chatter in WW1 dogfight  But guess can't get everything and would just have to miss the total chaos solitary of WW1 furball. 

 

The whole idea anyway of doing combat air flying with those archaic under powered bat like biplanes is about nothing short of crazy ?

Edited October 10, 2020 by messsucher

[messsucher]

 

Another WW1 documentary, slow going, but interesting, and good for slow going Sunday ?

[messsucher]

Yay, got the Flying Circus, very excited to try it!

[Monksilver]

On 10/10/2020 at 12:17 PM, messsucher said:

 

The whole idea anyway of doing combat air flying with those archaic under powered bat like biplanes is about nothing short of crazy ?

 

Quite right but just as crazy was the training to fly those planes. It is said that in WW1 the RFC/RAF had around 6200 air crew killed in action, but 8000 killed in training before they even crossed the Channel!