Need help with takeoff & climb JU-88 / BF110

[Five_By_Five]

I've been trying to fly the JU-88 and BF-110 in multiplayer.  I fly on CombatBox so it requires knowledge that I have never used in Single Player. ie. full realism.

 

I have been able to get the 110 aloft no problem but it is difficult to keep from overheating. I have to keep the throttle between 40-50%.

 

I have only recently been able to get the JU-88 off the ground . . . but then it quickly falls back to earth.

I assume I need to learn how to use things like opening / closing shutters & vents, learning how to use trim controls, prop rpm, etc.

This has been a long learning process. Mostly by trial and error since I'm not a "real" pilot by any stretch.  I only have about a half-hour of flight time per day.

Wondering if there is a basic guide for how to get these bombers off the ground, climb out and basically . . . fly. 

Kind of a bullet list of "to do's".

As noted, I can get them off the ground . . . but that's about it. 

[ITAF_Airone1989]

Hey @Five_By_Five

Bf110 temperatures: open water and oil radiators, everything will be fine.

 

Ju88 take off: set prop pitch at 100% and reduce fuel (1000L is more than one h of flight).

To climb: throttle 90% + prop pitch 87%.

Remember to open shutters otherwise you will have the same temperatures problem.

 

Start with "full real" it's a little bit difficult at the beginning, but much easier if you have somebody that can help you.

Consider this:

 

In any case, I find it much much better than fly in single player ?

Edited September 27, 2020 by ITAF_Airone1989

[messsucher]

Greetings. Like the previous poster said, it would be best if you took advantage of online training you can get. There are excellent flight instructors who are willing to teach you for free, which is just awesome. It is great if you want to learn by yourself and are ready to work hard for it like you have done, but you really are missing hell lot if you don't use the opportunity to get FREE training.

[Five_By_Five]

Appreciate the input. I will definitely be looking into that online training if I can find the time. My playtime is limited to between 10:45-11:30, Wednesday to Saturday . . . so it's a pretty narrow window for learning.  I've been playing consistently and only getting better very, very slowly.  I'm still in the phase where simply surviving a flight feels like a victory, even if I haven't fired my guns at all.  Every day is a challenge, but the feeling of actually competing with real people makes the frustration feel worthwhile.

Anyhow, speaking of frustration, I tried five times last night to get the JU on track. Failed each time.  The furthest I got from the runway was about five miles . . . at which point both engines failed, although, I was going further and higher than I had previously (ever).

My procedure thus far:

4 500lb bombs

50% fuel

Prop pitch 100

Oil radiator closed on takeoff / 90 - 100 for climb

Pitch trim 75-100

Sometimes flaps, sometimes no flaps

Slow roll to 200mph, rotate at 180'ish . . . half the time I was well past the runway before becoming sufficiently airborne

I'm at max throttle by this time
Once airborne I open the oil radiator to 100

I begin to throttle back from 100 but start losing altitude and have to bump it back up over 80 . . . pretty soon the engines burn out.
I'm not yanking on the stick, just a gradual, easy attempt at climbing (with little power I could hardly lift it much anyhow).

Pitch trim seems to help a bit, but I still fall / fail

The only thing I haven't done so far is open/close the water radiator as was suggested. I will try that Wednesday night . . . as well as any other pointers that you guys might have.

I've only begun to get acquainted with trimming out the aircraft.  Looking forward to learning this procedure as I hope it will make flying all of the planes much easier and more successfully.

 

I also think that my problems with flying the 110 were/are due to not knowing how to use the shutters. I was always flying with them closed . . . which would seem to account for the inability to push the throttle past 50%.  Haven't had a go at flying one since learning about this as I'm intent on getting the JU-88 figured out.  Then I'd like to learn the Heinkel for some real bombing ability.

 

 

[ITAF_Airone1989]

We can do a bomb run togheter and fix all the problems you can find.. just let me know in which GMT you live ?

[Dagwoodyt]

23 minutes ago, Five_By_Five said:

Appreciate the input. I will definitely be looking into that online training if I can find the time. My playtime is limited to between 10:45-11:30, Wednesday to Saturday . . . so it's a pretty narrow window for learning.  I've been playing consistently and only getting better very, very slowly.  I'm still in the phase where simply surviving a flight feels like a victory, even if I haven't fired my guns at all.  Every day is a challenge, but the feeling of actually competing with real people makes the frustration feel worthwhile.

Anyhow, speaking of frustration, I tried five times last night to get the JU on track. Failed each time.  The furthest I got from the runway was about five miles . . . at which point both engines failed, although, I was going further and higher than I had previously (ever).

My procedure thus far:

4 500lb bombs

50% fuel

Prop pitch 100

Oil radiator closed on takeoff / 90 - 100 for climb

Pitch trim 75-100

Sometimes flaps, sometimes no flaps

Slow roll to 200mph, rotate at 180'ish . . . half the time I was well past the runway before becoming sufficiently airborne

I'm at max throttle by this time
Once airborne I open the oil radiator to 100

I begin to throttle back from 100 but start losing altitude and have to bump it back up over 80 . . . pretty soon the engines burn out.
I'm not yanking on the stick, just a gradual, easy attempt at climbing (with little power I could hardly lift it much anyhow).

Pitch trim seems to help a bit, but I still fall / fail

The only thing I haven't done so far is open/close the water radiator as was suggested. I will try that Wednesday night . . . as well as any other pointers that you guys might have.

I've only begun to get acquainted with trimming out the aircraft.  Looking forward to learning this procedure as I hope it will make flying all of the planes much easier and more successfully.

 

I also think that my problems with flying the 110 were/are due to not knowing how to use the shutters. I was always flying with them closed . . . which would seem to account for the inability to push the throttle past 50%.  Haven't had a go at flying one since learning about this as I'm intent on getting the JU-88 figured out.  Then I'd like to learn the Heinkel for some real bombing ability.

 

 

mph or kph(?)

What controller gear are you using? I think learning on your own is quite doable if you have a good gear setup. The less keyboard work the better. VoiceAttack is a great help in that regard. I suspect it is better to start with single engine aircraft. For instance learning to fly the MC.202 in "M" mode without killing the engine on takeoff is a worthwhile puzzle to solve. Good luck!

[FTC_Zero]

Bf110: water radiator and oil radiator 50%, I never needed higher settings. You can even lower them if you have high speed but 50% is very save.

Takeoff: 40% flaps and don't forget to roll some meters straight so you tailweel align before takeoff you cannot lock them (same for ju88). Full throttle (trust me) and counter prop tendencies with rudders.

 

Ju88: radiator 80% is good for takeoff and climbing. 100% rpm for takeoff. 88% (in ju88 ;)) for anything else with that 90% throttle is climbing mode and 80% throttle continuous power.

Takeoff: again roll some meters for straight tailweels before takeoff. Full throttle and to counter prop tendencies use ONLY your left or right weel brakes, not the rudders. When your tail get some lift then your rudder get some responsiveness.

 

Landing: before you fully extend your landing flaps, make sure you trim the plane 100% nose heavy. With fully extended flaps you get serious lift. Hope that helps

Edited September 27, 2020 by ZeroCrack01

[HotPursuit]

I'm guessing you burned the engines out because you left the RPM at 100% for too long.

Once airborne in the Ju88 you need to lower the RPM to 2,400 and set 1.25 ATA.  Keep an eye on the gauges.

You can maintain this climb setting for up to 30 mins.

 

Once you are at cruising altitude set 2,250 RPM and 1.15 ATA

[Aurora_Stealth]

On 9/27/2020 at 4:41 AM, Five_By_Five said:

I've been trying to fly the JU-88 and BF-110 in multiplayer.  I fly on CombatBox so it requires knowledge that I have never used in Single Player. ie. full realism.

 

I have been able to get the 110 aloft no problem but it is difficult to keep from overheating. I have to keep the throttle between 40-50%.

 

I have only recently been able to get the JU-88 off the ground . . . but then it quickly falls back to earth.

I assume I need to learn how to use things like opening / closing shutters & vents, learning how to use trim controls, prop rpm, etc.

This has been a long learning process. Mostly by trial and error since I'm not a "real" pilot by any stretch.  I only have about a half-hour of flight time per day.

Wondering if there is a basic guide for how to get these bombers off the ground, climb out and basically . . . fly. 

Kind of a bullet list of "to do's".

As noted, I can get them off the ground . . . but that's about it. 

 

Hey @Five_By_Five, welcome... I'm flying the Ju-88 a fair bit online so thought I'd share my (simple simon) setup.

 

With these settings you don't need to adjust or fiddle - you can go ahead and use climb power for quite a bit, just don't use full power except on takeoff or absolute emergency for I think maximum 5 minutes. Constantly adjusting settings can be risky as you can get overheating if you close radiators or fiddle the settings too much depending on power setting.

 

- 30 - 35% fuel for a 20 / 30 min flight is usually enough (it can carry plenty of fuel but you don't typically need it)

- 79% propeller pitch (had no overheating issue with this)

- 40% cowling flaps / radiator (had no overheating issue with this)

- Always use two stage of flaps (takeoff), it will help shorten the long takeoff run

- When lining up for takeoff, ensure you get the longest run you can from furthest down the airfield/runway - you'll need it with bombs loaded

- Hold the brakes on full power then release, using full power thru takeoff until safely up there... looking for 200 180km/h IAS on airspeed indicator before departing from ground

- Use differential braking on the ground to correct your direction on takeoff/landing, in little taps / corrections - its more effective than the rudder at low speeds!

- Once in the air get the gear up ASAP, then once you have a little more airspeed reduce flaps in stages, correct aircraft as required (Ju 88 will want to drop a bit each time)

- After 2 - 3 minutes or after gaining a few hundred metres height - reduce to 85% power (climbing)

- Use compass/map to find direction to target

- Once on course, you can trigger autopilot (or just look through bombsight) - this will automatically engage your autopilot for level flight then you can press bombsight button again and return to cockpit.

- Moving the stick (a good push) at any time during flight will automatically disengage autopilot

- Gunner settings to 'fire at will' and fire at 'close range' for maximum effect - this has best results against enemy fighters

 

Rest is on you!

 

Cheers,

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Aurora_Stealth

[messsucher]

Just don't give up. In my opinion that take off part is especially fun with bombers because it is not trivial to get airborne and you can get a feeling that you really have a big load.

 

Also would recommend to try find an online bombing squadron and committing some time for it. There used to be good ones, with decent level headed folks. Bombers require a bit different mindset.

[Five_By_Five]

Major thanks to everyone who helped me out with this. I was able to get airborne, get things well ordered and flying marvelously.  Everything was going great until . . . in typical fashion I found out that I had keyed one of my trim controls to the same combination (Ctrl E) as  . . . EJECT.

 

So, I ejected myself.  Yes, I screwed up another mission but came away with the confidence to fly this JU much better next time.

 

I haven't gotten a second chance as I've dusted off my old Saitek X45 joystick and am in the process of trying to get it working. I figure I need a HOTAS like that, as opposed the Logitech stick that I've been using because I need something with a lot of buttons, switches and dials which I can program to trim controls and shutters.  I want to avoid having to go to the keyboard as much as possible.

Not sure if this old stick is going to work with Windows 10. If it doesn't I'll buy a new one.  Any suggestions on that front would be welcome. I have about $250 to spend on a good stick.

[ITAF_Airone1989]

Glad to know you did it, a new bomber player is always a good news!!!

[messsucher]

9 hours ago, Five_By_Five said:

Major thanks to everyone who helped me out with this. I was able to get airborne, get things well ordered and flying marvelously.  Everything was going great until . . . in typical fashion I found out that I had keyed one of my trim controls to the same combination (Ctrl E) as  . . . EJECT.

 

So, I ejected myself.  Yes, I screwed up another mission but came away with the confidence to fly this JU much better next time.

 

I haven't gotten a second chance as I've dusted off my old Saitek X45 joystick and am in the process of trying to get it working. I figure I need a HOTAS like that, as opposed the Logitech stick that I've been using because I need something with a lot of buttons, switches and dials which I can program to trim controls and shutters.  I want to avoid having to go to the keyboard as much as possible.

Not sure if this old stick is going to work with Windows 10. If it doesn't I'll buy a new one.  Any suggestions on that front would be welcome. I have about $250 to spend on a good stick.

 

I would say VKB Gladiator NXT. They are making additional modules for it too, so that you can get more levers and buttons. There are other options like Saitek, but, well, meh, you get more stuff but of lesser quality. Better buy something at least somewhat decent and build on that.

 

https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/gladiator-nxt/