How big were IL2 1946 maps compared to BoX maps?

[Mysticpuma]

No ulterior motive, currently 4 engine bombers are seen as not suitable for BoX (forgetting the Ai issues) but we're okay on 1946 maps. How much bigger we're the 1946 maps than BoX? 

 

Cheers, Mysticpuma 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Mysticpuma

[CountZero]

Largest i think 1200x1200km, thats the area depicted in game on 1:1 scale. Some maps were in other scales to depict bigger areas on same limits.

 

From what is said size of maps would not be big problem (maybe big citys quantity could be), nor number of engines, problem is time to model all crew positions and AI demand on thouse multi crew positions as unlike in 1946 or clod in box every ai creman have its own brain, in older games it was one brain, so its high demand on game if bigger numbers of them is used.

 

So you can make them but you wont be able to have as big formations of them as you would need, you can check this by looking what twin bomber now has most crew positions, and see how many of them you can have as AI in mission before slowdowns , and then do same with onother twin bomber one with smallest number of crew positions and compare sizes of formations before you start to get slowdowns in missions.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Here you can find a comparison with the different map sizes accross most flight sims:



https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1nEGqkqYUGBipkmMq-NSwixdUHmU&ll=18.229233337588433%2C147.23729264904154&z=4

Other than a few exceptions, most 1946 maps are similar or smaller than IL-2 Great Battles maps.

[sevenless]

3 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

No ulterior motive, currently 4 engine bombers are seen as not suitable for BoX (forgetting the Ai issues) but we're okay on 1946 maps. How much bigger we're the 1946 maps than BoX? 

 

Cheers, Mysticpuma 

 

More or less same size. However the problem is in the CPU usage department. Check out the scens within this thread:

 

 

[Enceladus828]

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1nEGqkqYUGBipkmMq-NSwixdUHmU&ll=18.229233337588433%2C147.23729264904154&z=4

I don't where these people got there info from, but the Western Front map in Rise of Flight certainly did NOT extend into Paris or Brussels.

Did it?

Edited September 27, 2020 by Enceladus

[LukeFF]

6 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

I don't where these people got there info from, but the Western Front map in Rise of Flight certainly did NOT extend into Paris or Brussels.

Did it?

 

Yes, it did, but those areas were just left as unpopulated fields. 

[352ndOscar]

I could be wrong, it’s been awhile since I flew it, but the “Cross Channel Map” covered the London - Paris - Berlin quadrant at a real 1 to 1 scale.

[352nd_Wheels]

The 352nd Cross Channel map was 545 KM by 430 KM and it did include London and Paris. I think the CCM in 1946 is slightly larger in total area than what we will get in the Great Battles CCM since it will not include London or Paris and I think only part of the Jersey Channel Island.

 

The proposed size for the BoN will be 410 km x 270 km in size.

BoN Map - (WIP Image)

 

Wheels

Edited October 19, 2020 by wheelsup_cavu

[Zeev]

On 9/27/2020 at 2:05 AM, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

Here you can find a comparison with the different map sizes accross most flight sims:



https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1nEGqkqYUGBipkmMq-NSwixdUHmU&ll=18.229233337588433%2C147.23729264904154&z=4

Other than a few exceptions, most 1946 maps are similar or smaller than IL-2 Great Battles maps.

Didnt realize until now that Bodenplatte covers so much real world map. Is it 1:1 or smaller? 

[Gambit21]

All maps to date are 1:1

[ShamrockOneFive]

On 9/26/2020 at 6:27 PM, Mysticpuma said:

No ulterior motive, currently 4 engine bombers are seen as not suitable for BoX (forgetting the Ai issues) but we're okay on 1946 maps. How much bigger we're the 1946 maps than BoX? 

 

Cheers, Mysticpuma 

 

This map doesn't have the older sims on it so you can't easily compare 1946 with the current version but it does give a good overview, generally, of what size maps are in DCS, IL-2: Great Battles, and Falcon BMS as comparison points. https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1nEGqkqYUGBipkmMq-NSwixdUHmU&ll=55.59936201640008%2C26.003516403968113&z=5

 

Great Battles maps are generally bigger than the maps that came with the retail version of IL-2: Sturmovik through 1946. The only exception was Finnish Gulf which was huge.

 

There's a lot of stuff that's been created as hypothetical by the community on what is and isn't possible with regards four engine bombers because a few don't like the simplest answer - they are time consuming to make.

[Gambit21]

1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

- they are time consuming to make.

 

...and thus cost prohibitive.

 

[Enceladus828]

The Solomon Islands (patch 4.11), New Guinea/New Britain/New Ireland (4.13), BoM maps (4.14) released by Team Daidalos are relatively larger than the original maps.

 

And yes, I do feel that the Gulf of Finland map was the largest original map of 1946.

 

In patch 4.13.1 TD combined the Kuban and Crimea map into one: Black Sea.

Personally, I liked that they did that because back like 10 years ago, I got annoyed that the landscape became default when flying beyond the map boundaries, especially with those 2. 

[Ace_Pilto]

There's one mod map called "La Chute" that goes all the way from East Anglia to Germany. I've seen it being used with massive formations of 4 engined heavies. Idk how big it is in square kilometers but you can get an idea of the size of it in this video which depicts an entire 5 hour sortie from somewhere in East Anglia to Oschersleben in Germany. 

 

 

Also, a B-17 raid on Bremen:

 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Ace_Pilto

[kestrel79]

Those videos are awesome. I uninstalled IL-2 '46 the day Cliffs of Dover came out...had no idea they added 4 engine heavies very cool.

[IckyATLAS]

The nice thing in the pacific maps is that you can have enormous sizes. All is water and islands here and there, but no big cities at all, no roads, no railways, just a few dirt roads here and there.

To me this seems much less work to build the map, than a European map in the most populated areas. The big Island of Guadalcanal was empty in 1942-43, all tropical forest give and take a few simple villages, no roads, nothing, but many rivers and mountains. The main object here is the sea which has to be modelled and animated perfectly according to the weather. A lot better than in Kuban.

BOP remains a dream, the kind of thing that you know will be always unaccessible.?

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by IckyATLAS

[343KKT_Kintaro]

10 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

The nice thing in the pacific maps is that you can have enormous sizes. All is water and islands here and there, but no big cities at all, no roads, no railways, just a few dirt roads here and there.

To me this seems much less work to build the map, than a European map in the most populated areas. The big Island of Guadalcanal was empty in 1942-43, all tropical forest give and take a few simple villages, no roads, nothing, but many rivers and mountains. The main object here is the sea which has to be modelled and animated perfectly according to the weather. A lot better than in Kuban.

BOP remains a dream, the kind of thing that you know will be always unaccessible.?

 

 

 

You are not mentioning BLITZ nor Tobruk, this is, the Dover series, a simulator where the surface of the sea is simply astounding. On the Tobruk map, the water looks really tropical (as Eastern Mediterranean IS tropical). AND another shared point in the comparison, the Tobruk map is 385km x 385 km of water desert (north) and sand desert (south), very similar to your description... Cheers!

[IckyATLAS]

4 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

You are not mentioning BLITZ nor Tobruk, this is, the Dover series, a simulator where the surface of the sea is simply astounding. On the Tobruk map, the water looks really tropical (as Eastern Mediterranean IS tropical). AND another shared point in the comparison, the Tobruk map is 385km x 385 km of water desert (north) and sand desert (south), very similar to your description... Cheers!

You are right, I did not mention them because after the failed COD launch I just stopped completely with that variant of IL2.

I know they made a lot of effort to patch it and make it better. I played once or twice two  years ago, and yes it was much, much, much better than at inception,  but spoiled by BOX I did not find the same global visual and physical simulation quality in COD and so I did not continue. 

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

2 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

but spoiled by BOX I did not find the same global visual and physical simulation quality in COD and so I did not continue.

 

In my humble opinion it is the opposite: graphics of cockpits and landscapes are far superior in the Dover series than in the Great Battles series. Compared to the Dover seris, the Great Battles series is too cartoon-like. Furhermore, Dover presents a superior quality of simulation too. Nevertheless, apart from Tank Crew, I possess all the Great Battles modules because it's a great sim in many ways and I love to play it sometimes.

 

Going back to the above videos on the bombing raids over Germany, both reenacted with "IL-2: 1946", I think that the old good '46 is the only sim having tried to reenact those famous raids with a PC simulator and on maps that are to scale 1:1. BUT... please notice how the scenery and the textures are completely impoverished for making the missions playable. It is fantastic how this sim evolved and expanded, but it met its very limits and I'm not going back to it, sorry.

[buster_dee]

Would love to see what 46 could do if recompiled to 64-bit.