Discussion of GAZ-MM 72-K and Sd.Kfz. 10/5 Flak 38 Vehicle Mounted AAA Pre-Orders

[forktailedflyer7]

What is the date range for scenarios that these can be used in?  

[Guest deleted@134347]

1 minute ago, DBFlyguy said:

Honestly pretty disappointed in this announcement.  Has Tank Crew really sold that many units to justify using supposedly limited resources on doing flak vehicles while constant requests for a collectors B-25 or C-47 continue to fall on deaf ears?

 

why does everyone keep bringing up TC?  In the IL2 base game there is a possibility to drive couple of tanks. I think these AA units will be added to the IL2 base, not TC.. Unless I'm wrong?

[CCG_Pips]

Great addition to the game. AA guns would be included in a tank section and protect them from air attack..............purchased!!!!?

[=RS=Funkie]

8 minutes ago, Sneaksie said:

 

Sure, that's the whole point.

Awesome, I was hoping so, it just didn't mention that specifically in the description.

[Rjel]

2 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

Honestly pretty disappointed in this announcement.  Has Tank Crew really sold that many units to justify using supposedly limited resources on doing flak vehicles while constant requests for a collectors B-25 or C-47 continue to fall on deaf ears?

 

 

Completely different crew working on this as opposed to the aircraft development I believe. 

[sevenless]

7 minutes ago, 40plus said:

What variant of the Flak 38 will be get (how many barrels)

 

Most likely this one:

 

 

http://www.kfzderwehrmacht.de/Hauptseite_deutsch/Verschiedenes/Kfz-Nummern/Sd__Kfz__Nummern/Sd_Kfz__10-5_Selbstfahrlafette/sd_kfz__10-5_selbstfahrlafette.html

[40plus]

1 minute ago, Didney_World said:

 

why does everyone keep bringing up TC?  In the IL2 base game there is a possibility to drive couple of tanks. I think these AA units will be added to the IL2 base, not TC.. Unless I'm wrong?

 

You are likely 100% right. They are add-on vehicles to the core sim. I can't see why tank crew would be required.

[Enceladus828]

Thanks guys. Will probably buy the GAZ-MM 72 first and then see about getting the other.

Any chance of making an playable British or American vehicles down the road?

 

Thank you.

[AndyJWest]

We need the Flak-Gulaschkanone too...

 

[FTC_Kongoo]

6 minutes ago, Didney_World said:

 

I seriously doubt anyone would be sitting in the vehicle the whole map period and waiting for the enemy planes. These vehicles will be used on the basis of the "hey, our objective shows 2 enemy planes are near, let's spawn in AA and see if we can tag those bastards... play for 5 mins, planes are gone, ok, let's get back to flying.."   etc...

 

 

I hope this is the case. But then again why would you do it, if AI can be more deadly than a human controlled AAA

[Feathered_IV]

 

23 hours ago, Didney_World said:

 

I seriously doubt anyone would be sitting in the vehicle the whole map period and waiting for the enemy planes. These vehicles will be used on the basis of the "hey, our objective shows 2 enemy planes are near, let's spawn in AA and see if we can tag those bastards... play for 5 mins, planes are gone, ok, let's get back to flying.."   etc...

 

 

So players will bail out of their aircraft to hurriedly respawn in a flak vehicle for a few minutes then start a mission all over again?  

 

I hope they sell a million, but I really don’t think the developers have thought the gameplay through with this one at all.  
 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Feathered_IV

[CountZero]

4 minutes ago, Didney_World said:

 

I seriously doubt anyone would be sitting in the vehicle the whole map period and waiting for the enemy planes. These vehicles will be used on the basis of the "hey, our objective shows 2 enemy planes are near, let's spawn in AA and see if we can tag those bastards... play for 5 mins, planes are gone, ok, let's get back to flying.."   etc...

 

I think that for tanks they should consider to ahve option that player can spawn with his tank and for example 3 more AI tanks he can control by comands. Maybe even add 1-2 this new flak vehicle. Then you can spend time traveling to objective or batle area, when you get knocked out your able to transfer to one of AI tanks under your control and when you need you can transfer to falk vehicle in your group of 6 (4 tanks+2 flaks), and when you did your AA defence you go back to tank. Number of players online in tanks is low, their aim of having 2-3 players in one tank does not happend, your lucky if you have that many tank players on your side in same area, so they should try alowing single players to control more stuff without need to respawn and having to travel long time to batle area. To me thats whats boring in ground stuf in this game, not many contol of more  units then my tank and when im gone again i have to go boring long drive to battle.

AA units are needed but if i have to drive a tank to objective then need AA unit and have to respawn from tank to take aaa unit and drive it to battle area then do same when i finish with it its a no go.

Also it would fix unbalance online with tank selection, you could have vvs player be able to spwn with for example 6 t-34s and go vs axis whos able to spawn with only 2 panthers and so on... more big battle with smaller number of players we have.

[saldy]

BoX need playable AAA unit. ?

[Guest deleted@134347]

11 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

So players will bail out of their aircraft to hurriedly respawn in a flak vehicle for a few minutes then start a mission all over again?  

I hope they sell a million, but I really don’t think the developers have though the gameplay through with this one at all.  
 

 

I think it follows the spirit of any vehicle use in IL2. If it was available on a whim without bailing out of the plane/exiting the game then these could become camping magnets.

 

In full real servers (Finnish or TAW) you can control tanks (without TC) and attack the objective on the ground. These AA can also follow the same engagement style, protecting the player controlled tank(s) from the plane.

 

there's plenty of game scenarios to make use of these AA's.

7 minutes ago, CountZero said:

I think that for tanks they should consider to ahve option that player can spawn with his tank and for example 3 more AI tanks he can control by comands. Maybe even add 1-2 this new flak vehicle. Then you can spend time traveling to objective or batle area, when you get knocked out your able to transfer to one of AI tanks under your control and when you need you can transfer to falk vehicle in your group of 6 (4 tanks+2 flaks), and when you did your AA defence you go back to tank. Number of players online in tanks is low, their aim of having 2-3 players in one tank does not happend, your lucky if you have that many tank players on your side in same area, so they should try alowing single players to control more stuff without need to respawn and having to travel long time to batle area. To me thats whats boring in ground stuf in this game, not many contol of more  units then my tank and when im gone again i have to go boring long drive to battle.

AA units are needed but if i have to drive a tank to objective then need AA unit and have to respawn from tank to take aaa unit and drive it to battle area then do same when i finish with it its a no go.

Also it would fix unbalance online with tank selection, you could have vvs player be able to spwn with for example 6 t-34s and go vs axis whos able to spawn with only 2 panthers and so on... more big battle with smaller number of players we have.

 

I understand your sentiment, but have you actually played on Full Real servers with player controlled tanks? In my experience in Finish dynamic campaign server a single player controlled tank being used by a single player can pretty much take out the whole objective if he plays his cards right.  If he's aided by a friendly player controlled AA - that's an added bonus.  Also, the Mission/map designers can introduce a logic where the map spawns empty AA vehicles (for players to control) when the player controlled tank captures a certain area (quarter way, mid way, etc), so there's no need to drive the AA vehicle all the way from the base camp.

 

Like any other object in this game it needs to be tried out in the actual battle scenarios to see what makes the most sense and adds an interesting angle to the gameplay without creating a havoc or boredom.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Didney_World

[No_Face]

In the same way that a player playing a fighter (plane) turns in circles above the airfield to be defended, the player who will control an AA will get close to the AI vehicles to be defended.

And since AI vehicles generally don't move (on multiplayer servers), the player shouldn't have too much distance to travel.

So in my opinion, a player who takes an AA vehicle will take it for the duration of the mission (or his life) and not for 5 minutes only.

And since these vehicles can still attack ground targets, if he is really bored, he can go and destroy those targets. (But the ride may be long)

 

[Toots_LeGuerre]

A Modest Proposal:

Belonging to a Virtual Squadron, I once tried to get one player/pilot, on a rotating, volunteer basis to act as ATC for missions, to get the planes aloft without  too much calamity, and to get them back on the ground without the usual even worse calamity such as landing downwind on the wrong runway. I actually got landed on one time.

But there was then nothing to do for the ATC chap while the others were up in the Wild Blue.

I suggested an additional plane with a tail gunner that never takes off. Nestle to the gun and await the return.

If an E/A strafes the base while no one is home, he can defend the base.

The suggestion met with no approval.

 

But now, if the player wanted to be ATC, while waiting the mission out, he could drive around in his FLAK truck,

and if an E/A showed up, it could be a real shoot out, and he might add to his kill list.

 

A further suggestion. In the same vein: 

A drivable Jeep for the Allies.

A drivable Kubelwagen for the Axis.

I'd buy them.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

10 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

 

So players will bail out of their aircraft to hurriedly respawn in a flak vehicle for a few minutes then start a mission all over again?  

 

I hope they sell a million, but I really don’t think the developers have though the gameplay through with this one at all.  
 

 

There are all sorts of uses.  You can travel with a convoy.  You can sit at a target.  If you see another target getting attacked, you respawn there.  If the airfield that you want to spawn at is being attacked you can spawn in a AA vehicle first.
 

You obviously consider yourself to be a gameplay expert, so you might even be able to think of a few more ideas.

[ZachariasX]

How sweet. I can think of some good use for them on the official server...

[ROCKET_KNUT]

Would have been nice to attend that very meeting in which the board decided: "THE HELL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES, LET´S DO THIS!"

Exactly my sense of humour... ?

[PatrickAWlson]

20 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

Honestly pretty disappointed in this announcement.  Has Tank Crew really sold that many units to justify using supposedly limited resources on doing flak vehicles while constant requests for a collectors B-25 or C-47 continue to fall on deaf ears?

 

 

 

It's not the same "resources" if resources = people.   The Tank Crew development team does not work on airplanes.

 

I sincerely hope that TC has sold enough to warrant further development.  Same with FC. One resource that is common among all three is money.  If TC and/or FC are losing money then 1C is losing money, and that does not bode well for any of its products.  So yes, let's all hope that they are making enough to warrant further development.

[Feathered_IV]

2 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

You obviously consider yourself to be a gameplay expert, so you might even be able to think of a few more ideas.

Well I guess it will provide a very useful learning experience for the programmers, to develop the necessary aiming assists to make them even moderately useful.  

[Blitzen]

PAID FOR & ORDERED ! Now all I need are the C-47 targets to come along at the same time!

 

[Thad]

43 minutes ago, dprumph33 said:

Tank crew got its own map that was a little more detailed from the ground level since the tanks were going to be driving around.  These vehicles are more likely to be used on the flight maps than the tank map.  I understand that the tanks can be used on the flight maps as well, but my question here is how does the "from the ground" quality of the early maps (Stalingrad, Moscow) compare with the tank map?  Will we all be waiting the release of Normandy to have a map thats really up to snuff?

 

I would be VERY surprised if the normandy map will have the detail you indicated. It will most likely be another flight map like Rheinland. ☹️

[BraveSirRobin]

7 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

Well I guess it will provide a very useful learning experience for the programmers, to develop the necessary aiming assists to make them even moderately useful.  

Aiming assist probably isn’t that difficult to program.  It’s already been available in RoF for years.

[PatrickAWlson]

5 minutes ago, Thad said:

 

I would be VERY surprised if the normandy map will have the detail you indicated. It will most likely be another flight map like Rheinland. ☹️

 

The detail on the airplane maps is really not bad.  IMHO good enough to be playable.  

[Gambit21]

34 minutes ago, dprumph33 said:

What is the date range for scenarios that these can be used in?  

 

Any mission or timeframe you or the mission designer feels like using them.

Simple eh?

[jollyjack]

Bought, as TC in support of the whole darn IL2 game ..... may the force be with them !

[216th_Jordan]

I'll buy them, but I think this price point will make them a very niche product. Certainly hoping otherwise...

[forktailedflyer7]

7 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Any mission or timeframe you or the mission designer feels like using them.

Simple eh?

 

It doesn't work like that for planes.  I think you were trying to be a dick.  But we all know you can't fly a Moscow career in a Lightning so how about a real answer?

[Thad]

2 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

The detail on the airplane maps is really not bad.  IMHO good enough to be playable.  

 

I didn't say they would be unplayable. It will just be another flight centered map.

 

For example I can't create historically based battles about Patton's armored forces actions during the Battle Of The Bulge because none of the villages and towns they took place in are even displayed on the map. It's a flight map.

[CountZero]

36 minutes ago, Didney_World said:

 

I think it follows the spirit of any vehicle use in IL2. If it was available on a whim without bailing out of the plane/exiting the game then these could become camping magnets.

 

In full real servers (Finnish or TAW) you can control tanks (without TC) and attack the objective on the ground. These AA can also follow the same engagement style, protecting the player controlled tank(s) from the plane.

 

there's plenty of game scenarios to make use of these AA's.

 

I understand your sentiment, but have you actually played on Full Real servers with player controlled tanks? In my experience in Finish dynamic campaign server a single player controlled tank being used by a single player can pretty much take out the whole objective if he plays his cards right.  If he's aided by a friendly player controlled AA - that's an added bonus.  Also, the Mission/map designers can introduce a logic where the map spawns empty AA vehicles (for players to control) when the player controlled tank captures a certain area (quarter way, mid way, etc), so there's no need to drive the AA vehicle all the way from the base camp.

 

Like any other object in this game it needs to be tried out in the actual battle scenarios to see what makes the most sense and adds an interesting angle to the gameplay without creating a havoc or boredom.

 

 

No as they dont have free tanks for reason of bug on them.

Thats the thing you have to make missions so single tank player can do all, and you as single player have to do all as you have no control of other AI tanks if any. And on top you cant use all tanks as if you have single tiger or fredinand you cant do a thing to it if your on other side in single t-34 or su ... its not tank battles its tank duels... and for sure its no crew its solo expiriance, and when on top you add airplanes in mix aa vechicle is must but where will you fined guy who will have only task to falow you in tank so he can try to hit human player in airplane if he shows up, a lot of time waisted and bordom. If on other hand i have extra ai with me i can control and on top aaa units in them, im now having whole column and im fighting other columns or groups not duels. Or i can have numers of low quality tanks have impact vs small numbers of high class tanks, something non existant now in game with low numbers it has. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by CountZero

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

If they could just remove the invisible trees from the regular maps that would be great. Bought these 2 anyways...

[Thad]

All sides have stealth trees. It's fair. 

[Lusekofte]

I grown to the idea of having this. Now I can payback all the times I gone down in flames. 
For me this is ok

[Avimimus]

I find it interesting just how much more attractive these are to me than tanks... I'd also like a driveable staff-car if I'm honest... fun to explore the map.

 

Basically - we're getting a truck and a half-track - both of which have much better visibility than being buttoned-up in a tank. The GAZ also gives us the experience of driving wheeled vehicles in the sim...

 

P.S. I'm kindof hoping that some of this might rub-off on other vehicles - the new damage model is good - but last I checked the drivers of trucks are invulnerable to fire through the windshield ...and we could really do with a separate hit-box for the radiator!

 

 

13 minutes ago, Thad said:

I didn't say they would be unplayable. It will just be another flight centered map.

 

For example I can't create historically based battles about Patton's armored forces actions during the Battle Of The Bulge because none of the villages and towns they took place in are even displayed on the map. It's a flight map.

 

I've driven tanks in Fighters Anthology and FS-WWI - and it was fun... not perfectly realistic landscapes, and the FA tanks actually floated slightly off the ground... but it was still fun... it is amazing how people's standards climb!

Edited September 23, 2020 by Avimimus

[No.23_Gaylion]

How hard is it to make a playable static MG position or Flak position next to an airfield or bombing target. Have you guys thought about this? You could have it set up in the spawn menu like jumping into a rear gun. Just use a lewis gun or spandau on a tree stump. I feel like all the peices are there for this.

[Gambit21]

15 minutes ago, dprumph33 said:

 

It doesn't work like that for planes.  I think you were trying to be a dick.  But we all know you can't fly a Moscow career in a Lightning so how about a real answer?

 

THE MISSION DESIGNER CAN USE THEM AT THEIR DISCRETION.

 

If we want a playable German AA unit we will use this one - the end.

 

If we need a playable Russian AA unit we will use this one - the end.

 

Career is not part of the discussion at this juncture.

[Trooper117]

1 hour ago, simfan2015 said:

I'm real glad TC is not abandonned after all !

 

TC hasn't been abandoned at all... TC get's lots of love on regular game updates.

FC however seems to be totally left out in the void. 

[Guest deleted@134347]

16 minutes ago, CountZero said:

No as they dont have free tanks for reason of bug on them.

Thats the thing you have to make missions so single tank player can do all, and you as single player have to do all as you have no control of other AI tanks if any. And on top you cant use all tanks as if you have single tiger or fredinand you cant do a thing to it if your on other side in single t-34 or su ... its not tank battles its tank duels... and for sure its no crew its solo expiriance, and when on top you add airplanes in mix aa vechicle is must but where will you fined guy who will have only task to falow you in tank so he can try to hit human player in airplane if he shows up, a lot of time waisted and bordom. If on other hand i have extra ai with me i can control and on top aaa units in them, im now having whole column and im fighting other columns or groups not duels. Or i can have numers of low quality tanks have impact vs small numbers of high class tanks, something non existant now in game with low numbers it has. 

 

I think you're possibly mixing up your desires and expectations vs. what's actually happening in these full real servers.

 

Also, what do you mean by 'don't have free tanks' due to a bug?  Are you saying that 2 tanks that are included in BoS aren't playable?  I've never tried to actually play in them, but they are definitely available to me if I select the tank spawn in MP..

 

[forktailedflyer7]

1 minute ago, Gambit21 said:

 

THE MISSION DESIGNER CAN USE THEM AT THEIR DISCRETION.

 

If we want a playable German AA unit we will use this one - the end.

 

If we need a playable Russian AA unit we will use this one - the end.

 

Career is not part of the discussion at this juncture.

Instead of trying to defend your bad attitude, how about just answering with a timeframe that these were active.

 

Lets just toss a few hundred throughout Arras to deal with the Fokker scourge.  Seems fair.