How do you lock the tail wheel on a Spit, or Tempest?

[Dufalator]

Hello,

I have been flying the Mustang without any problems. When I try to fly the Spit, or Tempest, I cannot lock the tail wheel up. It makes taxing and landing very difficult. I know that you used to be able to key-map the "Tail Whee Lock". Now when I try to do this it does not work. Is there some special trick to lock up the tail wheel?

Thank you

Dufalator

[357th_KW]

 Neither has a locking tail wheel.  They also both have a different brake mapping.  I found that mapping their brakes to each of my toe brakes works pretty well - I just have to remember to use rudder with the brake.

[cardboard_killer]

6 hours ago, KW_1979 said:

They also both have a different brake mapping.  

 

I thought they both used the same breaking, non-toe breaking from rudder and single brake button on the stick. Only real differece is the torque I thought. I have them mapped the same.

Edited September 12, 2020 by cardboard_killer
misunderstood original question.

[RNAS10_Oliver]

35 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

I thought they both used the same breaking, non-toe breaking from rudder and single brake button on the stick. Only real differece is the torque I thought. I have them mapped the same.

He meant the Spitfire and Tempest both having a different brake mapping compared to the Mustang that OP mentioned. Not when compared to each other.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Oliver88

[Dufalator]

Thanks. I use rudder with the individual wheel brake (Right, or left), but the plane still spins out when I am on the runway after landing. 

[=RS=Stix_09]

35 minutes ago, Dufalator said:

Thanks. I use rudder with the individual wheel brake (Right, or left), but the plane still spins out when I am on the runway after landing. 

 

 

There is no left and right brake, as mentioned its differential braking like in the Russian planes (rudder alters the power of bake applied to the left right wheels). During landing careful braking and back pressure to push tail down(or it will nose over)you also must  keep a small amount of power on . (approx what you would use to taxis the plane slowly) This will help pull the nose of plane straight and stop the tail spin (as well as provide some air over control surfaces), it takes practice but easy to master once you work it out.

(You have to map a key or button to the brake, because it does not use toe brakes)

Also because the spitfire has a very low takeoff and land speed, it has very little roll out so stops relatively quickly to gentle braking.

 

Mk.VB

Takeoff speed: 160..170 km/h

Glideslope speed: 145..160 km/h

Landing speed: 130..135 km/h

 

Mk.IX

Takeoff speed: 185..195 km/h
Glideslope speed: 165..185 km/h
Landing speed: 150..155 km/h

Edited September 13, 2020 by =RS=Stix_09
added speeds

[Dufalator]

Thank you very much for your advice. I will try it out this way.

Thanks!

[Dufalator]

There is a command on the key mapping settings named "All Brakes" I assigned this to on the HOTAS buttons on my flight stick and was able to successfully land and taxi. This remedy solved the problem. Thank you all very much for your advice. I am no able to fly much better missions in both the SPIT and the Tempest.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

For taxiing Spit IX after startup I set the prop pitch to 40% and after the plane starts moving do not go over 20% throttle to taxi, using only rudder to steer.  Basically the speed of walking.  Just remember to increase prop pitch prior to takeoff.

[Eclipse4349]

@Dufalator

Just for your future reference in other aircraft:

Operational notes like how the braking system works, whether or not there is a tailwheel lock and how to engage it (pulling the stick back or a separate switch or control), and many other things are listed in the bottom section of the aircraft specifications tab on your briefing screen. 

 

I just watched a buddy learn the wheel brakes lesson a few days ago because he didn't read the notes and thought the Spit had independent toe brakes. He was spinning out all over the place ?

[JimTM]

On 9/12/2020 at 8:13 PM, =RS=Stix_09 said:

... During landing careful braking and back pressure to push tail down(or it will nose over)you also must  keep a small amount of power on . (approx what you would use to taxis the plane slowly) This will help pull the nose of plane straight and stop the tail spin (as well as provide some air over control surfaces), it takes practice but easy to master once you work it out.

(You have to map a key or button to the brake, because it does not use toe brakes)

...

 

The power-on method will work but you can keep it straight without using any power:

• Try to land as straight as possible.
• During the initial part of the rollout after landing, the rudder still has some effect. Apply quick stabs of left or right rudder to correct any left or right turning tendency immediately. 
• During the later part of the rollout, apply quick stabs of left or right brake to correct any left or right turning tendency immediately. If the turn starts to increase, apply constant braking and release once the turning starts to decrease and then go back to quick stabs.

With practice, landings become a non-event. I still ground loop now and then during the later part of my rollout when I am not paying close attention to a developing turn and correcting it immediately.

[=RS=Stix_09]

19 hours ago, JimTM said:

 

The power-on method will work but you can keep it straight without using any power:

• Try to land as straight as possible.
• During the initial part of the rollout after landing, the rudder still has some effect. Apply quick stabs of left or right rudder to correct any left or right turning tendency immediately. 
• During the later part of the rollout, apply quick stabs of left or right brake to correct any left or right turning tendency immediately. If the turn starts to increase, apply constant braking and release once the turning starts to decrease and then go back to quick stabs.

With practice, landings become a non-event. I still ground loop now and then during the later part of my rollout when I am not paying close attention to a developing turn and correcting it immediately.

I agree but i still think small amount of power helps to stabilise plane. 

[Ace_Pilto]

Well that wind over the rudder is what makes it work. I find the ground looping to be a bit overdone tbh but better than it once was.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Ace_Pilto

[JimTM]

2 hours ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

I agree but i still think small amount of power helps to stabilise plane. 

 

Yes, whatever works for people. 

[Ace_Pilto]

Look, mechanically you have to blast air over the rudder for it to work. It's not debateable, that's just how the damn thing works. A big mechanical sail that changes your lateral direction based upon airflow. You can land with no lateral load if the wind gods are smiling upon you but try it in the real world when they are in a bad mood and you'll be paying big money for new wingtip lights.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Ace_Pilto

[=RS=Stix_09]

21 hours ago, Ace_Pilto said:

Look, mechanically you have to blast air over the rudder for it to work. It's not debateable, that's just how the damn thing works. A big mechanical sail that changes your lateral direction based upon airflow. You can land with no lateral load if the wind gods are smiling upon you but try it in the real world when they are in a bad mood and you'll be paying big money for new wingtip lights.

ya i noted that above, also if u pull an object (from  its center) it will naturally go straight, and at very low rpm there is almost no side torque , so with the air from prop over rudder both help to keep plane straight.
 

Edited September 18, 2020 by =RS=Stix_09

[timothyburton]

I really wish we had aircraft key binding instead of a global one.

[Ace_Pilto]

On 9/19/2020 at 4:59 PM, timothyburton said:

I really wish we had aircraft key binding instead of a global one.

This, I also with that the tech specifications page had more useful info to the pilot. I don't give a shit about my tare weight, maximum speed at 18, 374 ft or who spent seven months in a gulag designing whatever hot garbage I'm flying.  

 

Give me my ref speeds: Rotate, best angle of climb and best climb speed and give me engine settings for Takeoff, Climb, Cruise and Emergency setings. Also give me aircraft specific operation that is pertinent to the operator, suff that the engineers put on placards in the cockpit for pilots to use because they need to fly the plane and not a bunch of technowaffle  that some internet-know-it-all will cream his jeans over. Leave all that garbage in wikepedia where it belongs. (or put it in an encyclopedia that I can read in the hangar.)

Edited September 21, 2020 by Ace_Pilto

[DoubleQ]

Before reading the posts above I could not avoid the tempest rotating during taxi or after landing because I put the engine power at minimum. After reading the posts above I could managed taxiing and landing when using about 20-30% engine power remaining and using rudder pedals as advised. After landing I use wheel brake (not left or right brake) to stop the aircraft but the key is to let the engine at 20-30% power to have rudder effectiv.

 

Thanks to all and have good flights ?

[Solitojorgesoo]

I mapped the pneumatic brake lever to my TM Cougar paddle switch which in combination with rudder pedals, is the most similar to the real thing I found, and always  have a bad time taxing at low speeds.- Most times I always I end at a ground loop, as well as with the Tempest in minor scale.-

 I tried the DCS, the il2Blitz/Tobruk, and the il2 FB Spits, and found the first two can be reasonable controlled at taxiing, which not happens at all with our il2 FB Spit.

I think it is non realistical oversensitive, and should be fixed,.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

Has anybody mentioned that the stick should be all the  way back when taxiing and at the beginning of the takeoff roll until there's enough rudder authority to ease up? 

It's not just to lock tailwheel on certain models.  It's also to ensure that the tail wheel isn't bouncing on the ground and having poor contact. 

Most wouldn't notice if the tailwheel was only 1cm off the ground but, in reality, your taxiing on two wheels.  That makes everything very ground loop-y.  

 

(edit)  I thought of something else to add.    

 

In this game all planes start with their vertical trim nose-heavy and set for trim at the best cruising speed.  Be sure to set the vertical trim to 0%.  This is especially true on the Spitfire because it trims fairly tail-heavy at 0%.  This will put more downforce on the tail during taxiing, keeping the tail wheel from lifting.  

 

I wouldn't imagine that you would start trimming down until after you have taken off.  As the tail lifts up, the propeller comes down toward the ground.  I would imagine that having the most ability to control the rate at which this happens during a full-power "combat takeoff"  would be the difference between a crash and possible injury/ death or a successful scramble.    I'm pretty sure that experienced Spitfire pilots would have told us that "it would be very dangerous to do a combat takeoff trimmed nose-heavy."  

Edited October 11, 2020 by B.O.M.B._Mobile_BBQ

[RNAS10_Oliver]

 

4 hours ago, B.O.M.B._Mobile_BBQ said:

I wouldn't imagine that you would start trimming down until after you have taken off.  As the tail lifts up, the propeller comes down toward the ground.  I would imagine that having the most ability to control the rate at which this happens during a full-power "combat takeoff"  would be the difference between a crash and possible injury/ death or a successful scramble.    I'm pretty sure that experienced Spitfire pilots would have told us that "it would be very dangerous to do a combat takeoff trimmed nose-heavy."  

 

Spitfire Mark 5;

 

Spitfire Mark 9;

 

Tempest;

Edited October 11, 2020 by Oliver88

[Solitojorgesoo]

Take off Rudder Trimming:

Spitfire fully right.- Tempest: Fully left.

Why  ?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

16 hours ago, Oliver88 said:

 

 

Spitfire Mark 5;

 

Spitfire Mark 9;

 

Tempest;

 

Fair enough but, what is in game and default trim at startup is nowhere near right.  I'm not even sure if the elevator trim gauge on the dash panel reads correctly.

 

1 hour ago, Solitojorgesoo said:

Take off Rudder Trimming:

Spitfire fully right.- Tempest: Fully left.

Why  ?

 

There is torque and gyro effect from the spinning propeller that will pull the airplane(s) to one side when the throttle is pushed up. The trim helps counter this. 

[Solitojorgesoo]

On 10/12/2020 at 11:33 AM, B.O.M.B._Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Fair enough but, what is in game and default trim at startup is nowhere near right.  I'm not even sure if the elevator trim gauge on the dash panel reads correctly.

 

 

There is torque and gyro effect from the spinning propeller that will pull the airplane(s) to one side when the throttle is pushed up. The trim helps counter this. 

 

Yes, but why  right trim at the Spit and left trim at the Tempest  ? Maybe the Merlin rotates diferently than the Napier  ?

[JimTM]

1 hour ago, Solitojorgesoo said:

 

Yes, but why  right trim at the Spit and left trim at the Tempest  ? Maybe the Merlin rotates diferently than the Napier  ?

 

That's correct. The Merlin rotates right and the Napier rotates left.