Ammo belt composition/loadout?

[FTC_Zero]

Any information about maschingun belt composition of different planes?

I guess the load-out icons do not represent much other that between mainly ap or he on some specialised guns. Does IL2 follow RL standards in that regards? Thanks in advance for your information or opinion. ?

Edit: Here from a German manual D.(Luft) 5001 Schiessfibel 1944 (Approved by Galland himself ?) with recommend belt loadouts for different engagement tasks.

 

MG151/20: 4 engine Bombers: 1x Minengranate(HE) + 1x Brandgranate (I) + 1x Panzerbrandgranate (API)

All other targets: 3x Minengranate (HE) + 1x Brandgranate (I) + 1x Panzerbrandgranate (API)

 

Tracer round can be used by own choosing but not all ammo types have tracer anyways so it will have in most cases intervals anyways.

In IL2 CoD you could even do your own belts if I am not mistaken. Here you don't even know what you have and most planes have only 1 load-out anyways. It would be fun to explore that and I do not think that this is difficult to implement. I further hope somebody can give me some insight if Devs have plans to do so.

 

Edit2: Manual refers to LDV4000/10: http://michaelhiske.de/Wehrmacht/Luft/Luft/LDV_4000/TEIL_10/VORBEM_K.HTM (German)

In case of the mg151/20 and other 20mm ammo, there are different belt configurations for Western front and eastern front, how intriguing. Western fighter should get anti bomber load-out and Eastern fighter should get the other one.

 

Edit3: According to the informations I picked up in-game the (3x Minengranate (HE) + 1x Brandgranate (I) + 1x Panzerbrandgranate (API)) load-out would fit naturally, because we have no big 4 engine Bombers. Still I don't know what we have know.

Edited September 6, 2020 by ZeroCrack01

[E69_Qpassa_VR]

On 9/2/2020 at 2:49 AM, ZeroCrack01 said:

Any information about maschingun belt composition of different planes?

I guess the load-out icons do not represent much other that between mainly ap or he on some specialised guns. Does IL2 follow RL standards in that regards? Thanks in advance for your information or opinion. ?

 

HE ammo is the best, the orange one.

[oc2209]

On 9/1/2020 at 5:49 PM, ZeroCrack01 said:

Any information about maschingun belt composition of different planes?

I guess the load-out icons do not represent much other that between mainly ap or he on some specialised guns. Does IL2 follow RL standards in that regards? Thanks in advance for your information or opinion. ?

 

It's my understanding that all cannons have either a mixed AP/HE composition, or all AP or all HE, as per your choice.

 

I think German and Russian .50 caliber/13mm have mixed shells, while American .50 is only AP at the moment (which would go a long way in explaining why I don't like American guns).

 

Are you also referring to the amount of tracer rounds mixed in with the ammo? I'm unsure of those details.

[FTC_Zero]

12 hours ago, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

HE ammo is the best, the orange one.

I know that blue stands for AP and orange for HE. However there is no information if the symbols in the load-out screen represent exact belt configuration or just implies that it is mixed.

12 hours ago, oc2209 said:

It's my understanding that all cannons have either a mixed AP/HE composition, or all AP or all HE, as per your choice.

 

I think German and Russian .50 caliber/13mm have mixed shells, while American .50 is only AP at the moment (which would go a long way in explaining why I don't like American guns).

 

Are you also referring to the amount of tracer rounds mixed in with the ammo? I'm unsure of those details.

Yes it is confusing, there is no information what is AP, API, APHE HE, APT, HET, HVAP, I etc. (You see blue and orange can mean many things) Also no belt choices most of the time (only mixed with no composition information), only small exceptions with ap, he only, but even that can mean different kind of AP or HE types.

 

Here from a German manual 1944 with recommend belt loadouts for different engagement tasks.

 

MG151/20: 4 engine Bombers: 1x Minengranate(HE) + 1x Brandgranate (I) + 1x Panzerbrandgranate (API)

All other targets: 3x Minengranate (HE) + 1x Brandgranate (I) + 1x Panzerbrandgranate (API)

 

Tracer round can be used by own choosing but not all ammo types have tracer anyways so it will have in most cases intervals anyways.

In IL2 CoD you could even do your own belts if I am not mistaken. Here you don't even know what you have one most planes have only 1 load-out anyways. It would be fun to explore that and I do not think that this is difficult to implement. I further hope somebody can give me some insight if Devs have plans to do so.

 

Edit2: Manual refers to LDV4000/10: http://michaelhiske.de/Wehrmacht/Luft/Luft/LDV_4000/TEIL_10/VORBEM_K.HTM (German)

In case of the mg151/20 and other 20mm ammo, there are different belt configurations for Western front and eastern front, how intriguing. Western fighter should get anti bomber load-out and Eastern fighter should get the other one.

 

Edit3: According to the informations I picked up in-game the (3x Minengranate (HE) + 1x Brandgranate (I) + 1x Panzerbrandgranate (API)) load-out would fit naturally, because we have no big 4 engine Bombers. Still I don't know what we have know.

Edited September 6, 2020 by ZeroCrack01

[BlitzPig_EL]

The inclusion of API for the US .50" Browning is long overdue, and a glaring omission in a title that calls itself a simulation.

[FTC_Zero]

28 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The inclusion of API for the US .50" Browning is long overdue, and a glaring omission in a title that calls itself a simulation.

That's massive if that is true. U.S. 50cals rely heavily on AP, API and I. Not HE as many would wrongly claim. M8 (API), M20(API-T) are the main incendiary components if I am not mistaken.

Edit:. It would be not wrong if the load-out is marked as AP only in-game, after all it doesn't show what kind of AP it is. Again, missing clarification.

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by ZeroCrack01

[FTC_Zero]

4 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The inclusion of API for the US .50" Browning is long overdue, and a glaring omission in a title that calls itself a simulation.

Testing out the P51 and it appears that it quite often lit the target on fire. So I am not sure if your statement is necessarily true or tracer are causing this. Is it officially stated?

Edited September 6, 2020 by ZeroCrack01

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

Testing out the P51 and it appears that it quite often lit the target on fire. So I am not sure if your statement is necessarily true or tracer are causing this. It is officially stated?

 

Yes, it's been stated officially that API is not yet implemented and that hopefully it'll be implemented around the same time as improved fuel tank modeling.

[EAF19_Marsh]

After flying the Mustang (actually,  after flying anything) for about 6 months, I found that the current ammunition type was more than sufficient for opposing fighter types. Same went for P-40. 2 - 3 second burst was sufficient to do lethal damage which resulted either in loss of parts / control or a sad and slow death for the target as it fluttered down. This was offline, which may account for longer burst times.

 

I recall that CLoD has a mini-fire damage effect that seemed to reflect footage of incenduary rounds, but I have not seen this in GB. Possibly that is an element that needs addressing before AP-I can be introduced?

[FTC_Zero]

15 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

After flying the Mustang (actually,  after flying anything) for about 6 months, I found that the current ammunition type was more than sufficient for opposing fighter types. Same went for P-40. 2 - 3 second burst was sufficient to do lethal damage which resulted either in loss of parts / control or a sad and slow death for the target as it fluttered down. This was offline, which may account for longer burst times.

 

I recall that CLoD has a mini-fire damage effect that seemed to reflect footage of incenduary rounds, but I have not seen this in GB. Possibly that is an element that needs addressing before AP-I can be introduced?

According to @LukeFF it might relates to the fuel tank damage modeling, at least that is what i personally imply.

On 9/6/2020 at 6:24 PM, LukeFF said:

Yes, it's been stated officially that API is not yet implemented and that hopefully it'll be implemented around the same time as improved fuel tank modeling

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

It's not fuel tank damage he is talking about, but rather more realistic fuel handling, switching between tanks, etc.

[69th_chuter]

 

One of the advantages of .50 API is that it flashes brightly when it strikes something and pilots could get by without using tracers except for end of belt warnings.

[FTC_Zero]

13 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

It's not fuel tank damage he is talking about, but rather more realistic fuel handling, switching between tanks, etc.

Okay I implied wrongly then. I thought it was in context with the API

[FTC_Zero]

5 hours ago, chuter said:

 

One of the advantages of .50 API is that it flashes brightly when it strikes something and pilots could get by without using tracers except for end of belt warnings.

Do you have manuals or some source for common U.S. 50cal ammo belt configurations? It would be very interesting. I heard early and late war belt were quite different

[Y-29.Silky]

On 9/6/2020 at 9:25 AM, ZeroCrack01 said:

Testing out the P51 and it appears that it quite often lit the target on fire. So I am not sure if your statement is necessarily true or tracer are causing this. Is it officially stated?

 

It's only AP, the .50cals are absolute crap right now, no one can deny that. But I think it's kind of dumb that there's ammo for the Mig-3 that is tracerless and the .50cals don't which was common in real life.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Y-29.Silky

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

8 hours ago, ZeroCrack01 said:

Do you have manuals or some source for common U.S. 50cal ammo belt configurations? It would be very interesting. I heard early and late war belt were quite different

I don't have manuals but in some pics you can see the belts used, for example:

A P-40 in the Aleutians in 1942 iirc



By the color of the bullet tips you can guess the type, here it looks like the ammo belt used was

M2 AP (Black) / M2 AP (Black) / M1 Tracer (Red) / M1 Incendiary (Light Blue) / M1 Incendiary (Light Blue).

Then a couple photos from the late war period:



100%  M8 API (silver tip), no tracers.



Pure M8 API for the .50 cals and pure HE-I  (yellow/silver tip) for the 20mm, no tracers here either for what we can see.


 

Edited September 13, 2020 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[J2_Oelmann]

I would be happy with just a few choices for each plane. Like many/ few /no tracer and He/ap/mixed loudout if this Kind of rounds were used in this plane. I dont need to finde around with it like you can in clod.