Mission's no longer work!

[LachenKrieg]

I have made numerous missions, and have reused all of the mission elements that have been saved to file over and over. Now nothing is working. Attached is an example file. The mission uses a simple random switch to spawn AI, which then follow a simple way-point pattern. I have successfully done this in numerous mission before with much more complexity. But now I can't even get an AI tank to spawn in.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

 

My Mission.zip

[JimTM]

Have you tested this exact mission? It looks like it should work as expected, with the exception of the first bullet below.

Notes:

• I notice that all of your tanks are enabled by default so the spawner is redundant.
• Set the timer after mission begin to a short delay, say, 2 seconds. This may be more important in large missions, to give the mission time to start up properly before your logic kicks in.
• Because this mission is multiplayer, the spawn will happen right away and the tanks will be enroute by the time you spawn in.

[LachenKrieg]

Thanks again for being such a great resource for this entire community Jim.

 

The problem that I seem to be facing again is that things just quit working without an obvious reason, and without making any changes. Case in point, last night I had a multi-player where the random switch/AI tanks worked as intended. Now today not only do the AI tanks all spawn in together from a random switch when they shouldn't, but they all just sit there without following way-points. It took me hours to get this working last night. I can't explain how troubling it is to return to the exact same project not working the next morning. In the file I attached above, which was made and tested for this post, none of the AI tanks spawned in, just the single player Tiger tank. 

 

I have used your random switch over and over in too many missions to count. The purpose of the linked video below is meant to help demonstrate that point.

 

The first part of the video shows a mission more then a couple weeks old with AI tanks spawning in as intended. In fact the mission is reasonably complex for someone at my level.

 

It includes logic that gives the player a choice of what type of vehicles he/she would like to target. It also indicates the status of all 5 firing positions to inform players which firing position is free/occupied. And if the player wants to change the type of vehicles to target, or gets knocked out, he/she can reset the firing position by simply returning to the entrance and making another choice.

 

All of these features work, which contrasts with the simple mission shown at the end of the video. As shown in the mission editor, 2 check zones are activated by a mission start timer. Both check zones are set to fire when an axis tank enters. The first check zone is to start a green smoke effect. Driving into the second check zone is supposed to stop the smoke effect. This does not happen as shown in the video. In fact,  before making the video, what was happening when starting the test mission, the server would register successfully. I would then proceed to open my client software and launch multi-player/dogfight. I could see my server showing the correct name of the mission to be played. After selecting "Join Server" I would get a "File transfer Error 10017" message. After several attempts, it finally loaded without the file transfer error as shown in the video. 

 

 

[JimTM]

Try clearing the "Enabled" option for the AI tanks. I did that and I saw a tank spawn in and start out to the first waypoint.

[LachenKrieg]

Not the first time to try this, but clearing the "Enable" box had no effect again.

 

I even took it a step further. I replaced the "Spawn" trigger altogether with an "Activate" trigger and message linked the first way-point to the tank. STILL NOTHING! So it works for you, but not for me? I mean this is as straight forward as it gets. A mission begin timer directly fires a random input timer, and each output timer is target linked to an "Activate" triggers. How does a tank not spawn?

 

 

 

My Mission (v2).zip

Edited September 2, 2020 by LachenKrieg
Added zip file

[[DBS]Tx_Tip]

For each AI Tank:

Place a 1s Timer which is targeted by the Output timer.

Have the new 1s Timer target the 1st waypoint.

Lose the "On Moved Event" for each Tank and close that book forever. (Unknown if that actually would ever work) Certainly not in the way you are using it.)

Ai Tanks will activate in and run there waypoints.

 

Good Luck with your Mission Designing

Tip

[Thad]

The only common denominator in all of you mission problems is YOU. ?

[JimTM]

8 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

Not the first time to try this, but clearing the "Enable" box had no effect again.

...

 

How are you determining that the tanks do not spawn? Before I tested your first mission above, I placed a camera operator translator near the middle tank and elevated it for a good view. After I entered the mission, I went to the camera and I spotted a tank moving.

 

Maybe you are somehow working with an older mission. Perhaps try deleting mtreecache.eng in your game directory under /data, resave your mission, and copy it to DServer or reload it in the in-game server.

[LachenKrieg]

7 hours ago, [DBS]Tx_Tip said:

For each AI Tank:

Place a 1s Timer which is targeted by the Output timer.

Have the new 1s Timer target the 1st waypoint.

Lose the "On Moved Event" for each Tank and close that book forever. (Unknown if that actually would ever work) Certainly not in the way you are using it.)

Ai Tanks will activate in and run there waypoints.

 

Good Luck with your Mission Designing

Tip

I do appreciate the input from both you and Jim, so thank you very much. It's hard to discuss issues like this on a forum where meaning can so easily be misinterpreted/misunderstood. Having said that, you realize the main point was that the tanks did not spawn in. While the message link I used to activate the way-points may not have worked, I wouldn't be able to determine that until the tanks at least showed up. And I think more to the point, I've been using the same mission elements to spawn either single tanks, or groups of tanks for the last two months, and at least until yesterday they worked. If something has changed with the way the ME works, then it would have to be since yesterday, because I have used the ME nearly everyday since the latest 4.09 update without problem. But I am learning, and I never claimed to be the ME guru here. If someone learning tries something and it works, who should they argue with? Even if its not the best way, its what worked that matters.

 

The linked video below is one of the first large scale missions I made using a modified random switch described by Jim, so its a little more then a month old. I used 1 5-way, and 3 3-way random switches that spawned vehicles in four different groups. One group of 5, and three groups of 3. If you bother watching the video, you will see that the mission starts with 14 AI tanks on the map. If you don't believe that the random switches are working, watch the score counter in the game interface to notice that the number of AI tanks go up and down. There is a lag between the time an AI tank is knocked out, and the time it takes to register in the game interface because the tank usually sits there for a while. But honestly, a person would have to be a complete moron to accuse someone they never even met of being the cause of a problem they have never experienced. But hey, its the internet, and isn't that a beautiful thing?

 

   

 

5 hours ago, JimTM said:

 

How are you determining that the tanks do not spawn? Before I tested your first mission above, I placed a camera operator translator near the middle tank and elevated it for a good view. After I entered the mission, I went to the camera and I spotted a tank moving.

 

Maybe you are somehow working with an older mission. Perhaps try deleting mtreecache.eng in your game directory under /data, resave your mission, and copy it to DServer or reload it in the in-game server.

Jim, if you look at the game interface, you will see that I am alone. There are no AI tanks on the map with me. And as you already pointed out elsewhere, the AI tanks are usually there before your session finishes loading. But other then that, I had the HUD/mini map turned on so I could more easily identify AI tanks as I drove around. I recognize that asking people to watch you drive around a map in a YouTube video is like asking people to watch paint dry. I know, its not really my thing either. But really, how many missions have you made where after starting it up for a test, you were unable to tell if the AI tanks you placed on the map showed up? Because if I understand you correctly, that's essentially what your asking me. I know I am far from being proficient at using the ME. That is exactly why I appreciate, and listen/read so intently when people like you and Tx_Tip speak/type. But I also know that with software tools like the one we're using here, there is always more than one way to do something. I'm not saying I used the best way, but I did use a random switch with the logic shown in the image below to spawn AI vehicles in a dozen different missions. If it wasn't supposed to work, then I can't explain it, but it worked as shown in the videos I left here. 

 

Regarding the problems that started up again yesterday, the mission was new from the day before, but I can reinstall the entire game if you think that might be a problem.

 

 

 

[JimTM]

No need to reinstall. Just refresh the mission (the one in the opening post) as I mentioned and add an elevated camera operator near the middle AI tank so you get a good view of the terrain. Make sure to point the camera towards the middle tank in the editor. When you enter the mission, go to the camera, look around for a tank, and video the results.

[LachenKrieg]

11 hours ago, Thad said:

The only common denominator in all of you mission problems is YOU. ?

 

On 9/1/2020 at 3:06 PM, LachenKrieg said:

As shown in the mission editor, 2 check zones are activated by a mission start timer. Both check zones are set to fire when an axis tank enters. The first check zone is to start a green smoke effect. Driving into the second check zone is supposed to stop the smoke effect.

Instead of responding with judgemental comments, it might be a good idea to review the facts being offered, at least before you do.

 

If you would have watch the related video, the bold text above might make more sense to you. I thought your intentions were to be helpful here, so much for first impressions. I am experiencing a lot of weird behavior in both the game, and the ME Thad. Take that with a grain of salt if you want, but I described the situation plainly. Jim has pointed out that I should have the "Enabled" box cleared. Tx_Tip has added to the conversation in a meaningful way by explaining how to better active a way-point path. While I intend to take those things to heart, neither of them explains the problem fully.

 

But I posted what I did to get feedback, not lip. So your welcome to add to the situation I described above. My understanding of the two check zones arranged like above is that a smoke effect should appear after driving into the first check zone, and then disappear when you reach the second check zone. If I have misunderstood something, I am encouraging you to fill me in on where I'm wrong. A reference in Jim's manual to what I am talking about can be found in chapter 4, page 56.  So the question I have for you is, do you see a green smoke effect in the video? The second question is why not?

[LachenKrieg]

9 hours ago, JimTM said:

No need to reinstall. Just refresh the mission (the one in the opening post) as I mentioned and add an elevated camera operator near the middle AI tank so you get a good view of the terrain. Make sure to point the camera towards the middle tank in the editor. When you enter the mission, go to the camera, look around for a tank, and video the results.

I understand what you are saying Jim, and it makes perfect sense. The only problem is, your advice only works when the tanks actually spawn in. In my case, they did not. When I asked you to look at the game interface, I meant the little icons in the mini map that represent the players. I know the mini maps scale makes the intended AI spawn points fall outside the visible mini map, but without even getting into my drive around, you can see that there is only one player (me) present on the map. And that is my point, you are seeing something different then I am. I get how you are expecting that I should see the same thing as you, I have the same expectation. But that is clearly not the case. And this barely scratches the surface of what I am talking about when I say I am seeing very weird behavior in both the game and the ME.

 

 

[LachenKrieg]

Out of 5 tanks connected to a random switch, 3 of them manage to somehow spawn into the mission at start up. How is this possible? Only one output timer fires each time the input timer is triggered. The only thing that seems to work properly are the check zones. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

 

Flank Attack.zip

[LachenKrieg]

On 9/1/2020 at 11:28 AM, JimTM said:

Have you tested this exact mission? It looks like it should work as expected, with the exception of the first bullet below.

Notes:

• I notice that all of your tanks are enabled by default so the spawner is redundant.
• Set the timer after mission begin to a short delay, say, 2 seconds. This may be more important in large missions, to give the mission time to start up properly before your logic kicks in.
• Because this mission is multiplayer, the spawn will happen right away and the tanks will be enroute by the time you spawn in.

I did a fresh install and made two versions of the same mission, one that uses a spawn trigger like the original file you looked at, and one that uses an activate trigger. Other then resource management, they should both spawn/enable an AI tank at startup after an axis tank enters the 2nd check zone.

 

So to your first point above, all enabled boxes have been cleared in both versions.

 

To your second point, the mission begin timer has been given a delay in both versions.

 

To your third point, this is not an issue because the mission is set up so that one AI vehicle will spawn into the mission only after a player vehicle enters the second check zone.

 

I agree with you initial comments, it looks like it should work as expected, but it doesn't. Nothing spawns into the mission. And while the smoke effects were working yesterday, they no longer work today.

 

So can you see anything else that I might have missed regarding why a vehicle does not spawn into the mission? 

Flank Attack Activate.zip Flank Attack Spawn.zip

[[DBS]Tx_Tip]

Because your  Checkzone 1 is deleting the unactivated tanks. They never get a chance. Remove the target link.

 

Additionally:

As your intention within the mission is to have the tanks respawn after they or the players are killed you need to have these tanks spawned not activated. You will also need several counters, deactivates and reactivates for Checkzone 2 and Checkzone 1.

Having an "ON Killed" event for each tank needs to be their delete mechanism as well as player(s) getting killed or despawning.

 

As now written frankly you will have a mess should more than one player spawn in and things start getting blown up. You are going to need a Complex Trigger to referee the logic.

Its very detailed but you could download one of the Random Teamplay Dogfight Missions in my signature to get and idea of how a Complex Trigger is used to referee the logic as well as how Counters and Activates/Deactivates control the gameplay.

 

Tip

[LachenKrieg]

54 minutes ago, [DBS]Tx_Tip said:

Because your  Checkzone 1 is deleting the unactivated tanks. They never get a chance. Remove the target link.

 

Additionally:

As your intention within the mission is to have the tanks respawn after they or the players are killed you need to have these tanks spawned not activated. You will also need several counters, deactivates and reactivates for Checkzone 2 and Checkzone 1.

Having an "ON Killed" event for each tank needs to be their delete mechanism as well as player(s) getting killed or despawning.

 

As now written frankly you will have a mess should more than one player spawn in and things start getting blown up. You are going to need a Complex Trigger to referee the logic.

Its very detailed but you could download one of the Random Teamplay Dogfight Missions in my signature to get and idea of how a Complex Trigger is used to referee the logic as well as how Counters and Activates/Deactivates control the gameplay.

 

Tip

You had already responded here, thank you. My bad for not seeing this first.

 

To start, the entire mission worked before, but now it doesn't. The question is why? Why does an AI tank not spawn in when an axis tank enters check zone 2?

 

As I said, the delete trigger was working as intended before. Its purpose is to delete the AI tank on the battlefield after the player vehicle has been killed. This is meant to reset the battle area to give the player a chance to spawn back into the mission. After spawning back in, the player does two things when he/she drives through check zone 1. The player deletes the AI tank that had just killed him/her, and starts the smoke effect at check zone 2 to make it visible. The player then enters check zone 2 where 3 things occur. The detected player in check zone 2 should cause the random switch to fire causing an AI tank to spawn in. The smoke effect at check zone 2 is turned off, and the smoke effect at check zone 1 is turned back on. So while the delete trigger is active at check zone 1, The AI tanks spawn from check zone 2. You can see an example of the delete trigger working as described in the video I posted above on last Tuesday at 3:06.  

 

You are correct, the intention is to have the tanks respawn after they, or the player is killed. I included the activate version only as a discussion point with Jim. The actual mission file uses spawn triggers. The activate trigger was only used as an alternative method to try get an AI tank to spawn into the mission when the spawn trigger stopped working. Regardless, neither trigger is working now.

 

I use a counter with an "on killed" event for each AI tank to feed back into the input timer of the random switch to allow the AI tank to respawn. 

 

The question I am still looking for an answer to is why an AI tank does not spawn in when an axis tank enters check zone 2? It cannot be the delete trigger because I use the exact same logic in another mission and it works as it once did in this mission. When you enter the check zone target linked to the delete trigger, the AI tank gets deleted. When you then enter the check zone target linked to the random switch, another AI tank spawns in. If you re-enter the check zone with the delete trigger, the AI tank gets deleted and you have to start the process all over again.

 

The mission is only meant to have 1 player in the battle area. I will have a look at your teamplay missions, thanks for the suggestion, but I can't see how a complex trigger would help here. You basically have one player tank vs one AI tank. If the AI tank gets killed, the counter trigger for the AI tank causes the random trigger to fire and respawn another AI tank. If the player gets killed, he/she respawns, deletes the AI tank at check zone 1, and then respawns an AI tank at check zone 2.

 

 

[LachenKrieg]

On 9/3/2020 at 10:33 PM, LachenKrieg said:

Out of 5 tanks connected to a random switch, 3 of them manage to somehow spawn into the mission at start up. How is this possible? Only one output timer fires each time the input timer is triggered. The only thing that seems to work properly are the check zones. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

 

Flank Attack.zip 13.79 kB · 3 downloads

 

19 hours ago, [DBS]Tx_Tip said:

Because your  Checkzone 1 is deleting the unactivated tanks. They never get a chance. Remove the target link.

 

Additionally:

As your intention within the mission is to have the tanks respawn after they or the players are killed you need to have these tanks spawned not activated. You will also need several counters, deactivates and reactivates for Checkzone 2 and Checkzone 1.

Having an "ON Killed" event for each tank needs to be their delete mechanism as well as player(s) getting killed or despawning.

 

As now written frankly you will have a mess should more than one player spawn in and things start getting blown up. You are going to need a Complex Trigger to referee the logic.

Its very detailed but you could download one of the Random Teamplay Dogfight Missions in my signature to get and idea of how a Complex Trigger is used to referee the logic as well as how Counters and Activates/Deactivates control the gameplay.

 

Tip

As you can see in the video above at about 58 seconds in the time stamp, the AI vehicles are deleted when I enter check zone 1. This tells us three things; first it tells us that the target link between the check zone and delete trigger as well as the object links between the delete trigger and the AI vehicles are working. The second thing it tells us is that a player has to enter the check zone in order to activate the delete trigger. In other words, the delete trigger has no effect until it is activated. I hope you can agree with your vast experience at using the mission editor that the delete trigger will be activated each time the check zone is entered. The third thing this tells us is that your assertion the AI vehicles don't get a chance to spawn in is incorrect.

 

To further show that the check zone target linked to the delete trigger has nothing to do with why the AI vehicles don't spawn in, I avoid check zone 1 altogether, and go straight to check zone 2. In order to do this, I had to update the mission file so that both smoke effects were turned on by the mission begin timer. It should be clear to anyone using the mission editor that the smoke effects here are simply markers and have no impact on how the check zones work. The check zones don't care that the smoke effects are there, nor do they see the smoke effect. The smoke effect simply informs the player where the check zone is. The check zone is a mission element that is set to detect a coalition vehicle or plane when it enters, or leaves the defined zone. The check zone can be linked to other MCU's to give a set response each time the selected vehicle/coalition is detected by the check zone.

 

As you can see in the video, I enter check zone 2 and nothing happens. Either the check zone does not detect the axis vehicle entering, the target link to the input timer of the random switch does not work, or the random switch itself has stopped working.

 

 

 

Flank Attack Spawn.zip

[LachenKrieg]

22 hours ago, [DBS]Tx_Tip said:

Because your  Checkzone 1 is deleting the unactivated tanks. They never get a chance. Remove the target link.

 

Additionally:

As your intention within the mission is to have the tanks respawn after they or the players are killed you need to have these tanks spawned not activated. You will also need several counters, deactivates and reactivates for Checkzone 2 and Checkzone 1.

Having an "ON Killed" event for each tank needs to be their delete mechanism as well as player(s) getting killed or despawning.

 

As now written frankly you will have a mess should more than one player spawn in and things start getting blown up. You are going to need a Complex Trigger to referee the logic.

Its very detailed but you could download one of the Random Teamplay Dogfight Missions in my signature to get and idea of how a Complex Trigger is used to referee the logic as well as how Counters and Activates/Deactivates control the gameplay.

 

Tip

To further show that the problem is not with the way I am using the Mission Editor, or the delete trigger, I made a simple mission that shows even the most basic mission elements are not working on my system. A mission begin timer turns two check zones on. The check zones are set to detect an axis vehicle entering. One check zone targets a delete trigger, the other targets a spawn trigger. Both of these triggers are object linked to an allied vehicle with its enabled property cleared. I enter the check zone that is linked to a spawn trigger and nothing happens. I then remove the check zone and the delete trigger it is linked to, save the mission and run it again. Still nothing happens. Its clear that the delete trigger has no bearing on why the AI vehicle is not spawning into the mission. And it should be clear from the video that even the most basic mission elements are not working on my system.

 

I would think anyone with experience using the mission editor would ask themselves WHY simple mission elements are not functioning, instead of trying to invent problems with the mission file that aren't there.

 

Complex triggers are very resource intensive, and provide the option of detecting very specific objects using its object script, the exact name given to the object by the mission designer, and the object's assigned country. I am not really clear on why you would recommend a complex trigger for a simple 1 vs 1 mission, but you would have to elaborate more on what you mean by needing several counters, deactivates, and reactivates for check zone 2 and check zone 1 just to get a check zone that targets the input timer of a random switch to work.

 

Can you explain further?

 

 

 

Test.zip

Edited September 7, 2020 by LachenKrieg

[JimTM]

1 hour ago, LachenKrieg said:

To further show that the problem is not with the way I am using the Mission Editor, or the delete trigger, I made a simple mission that shows even the most basic mission elements are not working on my system. A mission begin timer turns two check zones on. The check zones are set to detect an axis vehicle entering. One check zone targets a delete trigger, the other targets a spawn trigger. Both of these triggers are object linked to an allied vehicle with its enabled property cleared. I enter the check zone that is linked to a spawn trigger and nothing happens. I then remove the check zone and the delete trigger it is linked to, save the mission and run it again. Still nothing happens. Its clear that the delete trigger has no bearing on why the AI vehicle is not spawning into the mission. And it should be clear from the video that even the most basic mission elements are not working on my system.

...

 

 

Are you running the mission on the in-game server rather than the DServer. Due to a bug, check zone triggers (and proximity triggers) do not detect player planes (and vehicles, I assume) if they are in a mission run on the in-game server.

[LachenKrieg]

4 minutes ago, JimTM said:

 

Are you running the mission on the in-game server rather than the DServer. Due to a bug, check zone triggers (and proximity triggers) do not detect player planes (and vehicles, I assume) if they are in a mission run on the in-game server.

Jim, yes I ran the tests shown in my last two posts on the in-game server. I was not aware of this issue, thank you for pointing that out to me. The tests that were done before today are all done on the DServer though, and I am seeing the behavior described. I will rerun the tests from today on the DServer. I just want to find and fix whatever the problem is here, because I cannot use the game I paid for the way it is. I have sent several tickets to technical support, but am still waiting for an answer. I was hoping the more experienced people here might offer a possible solution. You have been very helpful Jim. Thank you again.

[LachenKrieg]

On 9/7/2020 at 12:19 PM, JimTM said:

 

Are you running the mission on the in-game server rather than the DServer. Due to a bug, check zone triggers (and proximity triggers) do not detect player planes (and vehicles, I assume) if they are in a mission run on the in-game server.

Jim, ran it on the Dserver yesterday and everything is working like it did before.

 

I can't explain why that is.

 

Like everyone else that runs a Dserver here, I have two installations, a client installation I used to join my server for testing, and the server installation I use to make, save and run missions. I did a fresh install of the client software the other day, so that was the reason I used the in-game server. I wanted to use the fresh install to make and run the simple mission in case there was something up with the older installation. And if there is a bug that prevents check zones from working with the in-game server, then the fact that the mission was working before clarifies which installation I was using without having to say anything.

 

The question for me is, why did this happen? I guess for now I will have to settle for "tanks to the server gods, its working again".  And thanks to both you and Tip for the challenging questions, and for making me dig a little deeper.

[JimTM]

You're welcome LachenKrieg. I'm glad that it's working for you now.