Hammerhead - how to? in a 109 G-2

[BlackBadger]

So I came across this neat little video demonstrating how to do it in a 109 E-7:

 

Fantastic, I fire the game up and try it and lo and behold it works flawlessly.

 

Then next up I wanted to reproduce this on the G-2 and to keep things short I found it impossible. Rudder inputs and ailerons work completely differently at the highest point of the hammerhead and i find myself doing all sorts of weird manoeuvrers just not a clean hammerhead with a normal recovery. Can anyone tell me if it's supposed to be that hard in a g-2 or am i just doing something wrong?

 

 

[ITAF_Airone1989]

I'm not an expert about this manoeuvre, but maybe if you cannot control the aircraft is because you are too close to stall...

So, try to do that when you still have a little bit more speed..

[216th_Jordan]

Unless you find a 109-g2 pilot who did hammerhead turns I suppose it will be very hard to tell how it was in the real plane. The E series differs quite strongly from the later series. The size and distance of the rudder from the center of gravity, rudder-roll coupling and engine torque all play a role with different other factors playing in as well.

 

In real life for example I found it easy to hammerhead in an ASK-21 but next to impossible to do it nicely in an SZD-51-1 (Junior), mainly because of the weak rudder.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by 216th_Jordan

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

The Gustav puts more Torque through the Propeller, the Ailerons and Rudder are smaller and it adds a good 500kg of Weight on Top, mostly in Front, making it quite a good Deal Noseheavier. It will do a Turn if you start with quite a Massive Sideslip to initiate the Manouver and reduce Power a Little , 1.0 or 1.15 ata. Try around.

[BlackBadger]

1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

The Gustav puts more Torque through the Propeller, the Ailerons and Rudder are smaller and it adds a good 500kg of Weight on Top, mostly in Front, making it quite a good Deal Noseheavier. It will do a Turn if you start with quite a Massive Sideslip to initiate the Manouver and reduce Power a Little , 1.0 or 1.15 ata. Try around.

 

 ok that's interesting. why would they reduce the ailerons and rudder surface from one model to the next? Either way I'll try it with more sideslip, thanks.

[Art-J]

^ They didn't. I guess Klaus meant "smaller" in relative terms - i.e. inadequate for stronger prop effects. Which they eventually coped with by increasing stabilizer and rudder size in late Gustav variants.

[BlackBadger]

hmm ok. so then reducing power ought to reduce torque. In the E7 video the guy cuts throttle anyway, which I did. So in theory they should then have the same effectiveness.  Shouldn't nose heaviness help the hammerhead rather then hinder it?

 

 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

1 hour ago, Art-J said:

^ They didn't. I guess Klaus meant "smaller" in relative terms - i.e. inadequate for stronger prop effects. Which they eventually coped with by increasing stabilizer and rudder size in late Gustav variants.

Nope, the Gustav has shorter Span Frise Type Ailerons. The Friedrichs and Gustavs used a completely redesigned Wing, with far more Emphasis on Stressed Skin and grossly decreased Rib Count, with shorter Wingspan but large Wing Tips, which increased Wingspan nominally, but the Length was taken from the Ailerons. This decreased Low Speed Roll, but allowed for much better Roll Rate above 500km/h.

The Actual Rudder Surface of the Friedrichs and Gustavs (before the elongated Tail of 1944) was significantly smaller, once again in an effort to decrease High Speed Control Forces.

[BlackBadger]

ok so I've tried it again this time with a bit more success and observed the following:

 

I attempted a left swing as the 109's have a natural left swing anyway.

 

In-game torque has no or negligible effect on executing the hammerhead. Did it with full throttle just as easy as 1.0 ATA.

The G-2 has much less leeway then the E-7 as far as " staying perfectly vertical" is concerned. Ergo you have to really use your stick with multiple inputs to keep it centred at the top of the zoom.

Around -50% trim seems appropriate during the zoom up.

Full left sideslip has to applied around 300kmh. This doesn't mean you have to touch the rudder - as the g2 has a natural left sideslip under 300kmh so so you can keep your rudder centered and the ball will swing full right by itself.

 

Right after the turn, the right rudder seems to have an excessive amount of authority. Meaning you can use it to "glide" sideways or slow down the recovery to slo-mo mode. Kinda weird that it would do that at speeds of 0-100kmh.

 

Down stick is needed sometimes to ensure a smooth recovery.

 

Ailerons can be almost completely left out during this manoeuvrer.

 

So it can be done, but it's much less forgiving then the E-7.

 

 

[jollyjack]

Often wondered what the use of this move is, a quicker way to turn back probably?

Also would be nice which planes are best at it.

[BlackBadger]

In a g-2? one of the best ways to quickly turn tables on a pursuing spit vb for instance. In QMB I can not do a spiral climbing turn and successfully get on the spits tail. They will always outturn me. However if i climb for a bit and then a small dive to gather energy (~450kmh) I can perform the hammerhead and end up right on top of the pursuing spit. Can be also used in a merge, but if you don't know opposing a/c energy would be risky.