New Flight stick/throttle recommendation

[Crowgasm]

Hi Folks,

 

Having just got back into sim flying in a big way over the last few months, after a 20 year hiatus (god), I'm curious as to recommendations and availability of what might by consensus be considered the best flight stick and throttle/rudder options. I have picked up a Saitek X52 Pro stick and throttle and a CH Products Pro Pedals USB Flight Simulator Pedals (300-111) which doesn't play nice with W10 and is ... eh, so-so, so I'm stuck with the stick twist rudder on the X52 which is not the best either.

 

As a result, between building a cockpit and upgrading other hardware, I'm in the market for a higher end solution, including stick/throttle and rudder pedals. My budget is pretty flexible. Main concerns are features, build quality and mounting options to connect to my Obutto R3volution cockpit frame in a no-wobble permanent kind of fashion but also isn't too difficult to remove. I'm also a lefty,  so also something mildly ambidextrous would be nice, if not essential.

 

I see the Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog stick/throttle combo sitting as a common recommendation but it doesn't come with pedals and I'm looking for something a bit more upscale, heavy, sturdy and high quality, perhaps. Also, the option of interchangeable sticks between WWII and modern jet is nice.

 

I play mostly IL2, but also DCS (all generations including Warbirds) and MSFS a bit on the side, but don't tell anyone. 

 

Any advice/product recommendations appreciated.

 

 

 

 

[Thundercracker]

 If you're looking for something higher end VKB and Virpil are a good start for sticks, both allow for interchangeable sticks. VKB currently don't offer a throttle but claim one is coming soon, virpil and winwing both offer modern throttles. If you fancy something more vintage/custom gvl224 (forum member) has a thread here with his designs. MFG and Slaw seem to get the nod a lot for pedals.

Edited August 24, 2020 by RDoleman

[dburne]

Very happy with my VKB Gunfighter Pro L along with a Warthog Throttle.

 

You can click the link in my sig for my review of the Gunfighter Mk III Pro.

I also have been using MFG Crosswind Pedals for about 4.5 years and love them.

[Sokol1]

"The best" is subjective, technically (mechanics, construction material, electronics, features) is

 

VKB > VirPil - WingWing* all some floors above Warthog, that is steeps above CH's and Logitech G (ex Saitek X-5x line).

 

*WingWing is an "new kid on the block" and has little feedback, most "reviews" are of people gifted with one, and are (IMO)  too "jet" oriented.

[ciderworm]

Also, note gvl224 can produce right hand throttles.

 

Agree with Sokol regarding quality, I replaced Warthog base with Virpil & the improvement is obvious. I think the Warthog throttle is OK, I'm not looking to change that and the Grip, well, although it's a personal preference, I really like the Warthog and don't see me upgrading to Virpil or VKB any time soon.

[=FEW=fernando11]

In my humble opinion. I've come from a CH combatstick, CH ruder and CH throttle quadrant.

 

I went with a MFG crosswind pedals. I really like them. And the customer suport was excelent.

 

Then a VKB gunfighter, long extension (for Center mouting) and a MCG grip, the build quality and ease to work with is really nice. 

 

I'm still using the CH throttle quadrant, wich for WWII planes is good enough.

 

 

If you plan to use the joystick as a side mount I'll recomend you check VKB gladiator/NXT joystick

 

 

[Sokol1]

7 hours ago, TimJ147 said:

Has anyone had any experience with the WINWING F/A-18 and LIBRA JOYSTICK BASE ?

 

https://wwsimstore.com/p/319.html

 

Seems to be a more reasonable price wise compared to the Virpil/ VKB hardware.

 

WingWing use a gimbal based in the old "pincer" system (e.g. CH gimbal, Thrustmaster TPR) but with a progressive profile for the follower  bearing (like in a CAM profile in VKB, VirPil CAM gimbals).

"Pincer" gimbal provide a more defined (tactile and audible) center position on recenter and in side to side transition of the grip.

 

I think that feedback based on practical use (and not giffed Youtube [dum)]oxing)  is ones in DCS forum:

https://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=728

 

Quote

 

"But the important question: How does it fly? In a word. Smooth. Both the throttle and stick are just ... smooth. Speed control is so much easier, and none of the Warthog stiction.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=280252

 

 

This guy - who have experience with all (high end) joystick bases available, has a different option about base, he don't like of the "defined" center position on first impression:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4353467&postcount=10

His second analise: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4410438&postcount=26

 

Taurus base could be not the best gimbal for a precise aim in WWII dogfight, but for $299  looks a good deal, specially if you have a Warthog (F-16/F-18), Cougar grip at hand.

 

As for VKB, VPC (VirPil) bases, is the fact that they are in their 3rd or more revision.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Sokol1

[kestrel79]

I've come from a Saitek X-45> Saitek X-52> Saitek X-52 Pro> VKB Fat Black Mamba III and each stick has gotten better than the last.

[Crowgasm]

Thank you all for the very useful recommendations here. I'll do some more research but I like the VKB grips, not least because of the presence of lefty-compatible Kosmosima grip (we're oppressed!) and also several rudder options, although I might mix and match. I assume I had no issues with matching a VKB base/grip to other pedals, since VKB only appears to have one pedal option which looks more basic - the T-Rudder MK IV [https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-t-rudders-mk-iv]

 

Curious, if anyone would mind following up, where Virpil have 4 rudder models [https://virpil-controls.eu/shop/rudder-pedals.html[ can anyone comment on the relative pros/cons of these models, for IL2/DCS use-case, with a little MSFS use. Wondering what the additional features of the higher price models really add, over basic rudder control and I assume wheel break functions. Similar pricing but do these compare favorably with the MFG Crosswind rudder dburne recommended above? Again, this assumes I can mix and match these products.

[Brendo]

23 minutes ago, Crowgasm said:

Thank you all for the very useful recommendations here. I'll do some more research but I like the VKB grips, not least because of the presence of lefty-compatible Kosmosima grip (we're oppressed!) and also several rudder options, although I might mix and match. I assume I had no issues with matching a VKB base/grip to other pedals, since VKB only appears to have one pedal option which looks more basic - the T-Rudder MK IV [https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-t-rudders-mk-iv]

 

Curious, if anyone would mind following up, where Virpil have 4 rudder models [https://virpil-controls.eu/shop/rudder-pedals.html[ can anyone comment on the relative pros/cons of these models, for IL2/DCS use-case, with a little MSFS use. Wondering what the additional features of the higher price models really add, over basic rudder control and I assume wheel break functions. Similar pricing but do these compare favorably with the MFG Crosswind rudder dburne recommended above? Again, this assumes I can mix and match these products.

There's also slaw pedals

 

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Crowgasm said:

Thank you all for the very useful recommendations here. I'll do some more research but I like the VKB grips, not least because of the presence of lefty-compatible Kosmosima grip (we're oppressed!) and also several rudder options, although I might mix and match. I assume I had no issues with matching a VKB base/grip to other pedals, since VKB only appears to have one pedal option which looks more basic - the T-Rudder MK IV [https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-t-rudders-mk-iv]

 

Curious, if anyone would mind following up, where Virpil have 4 rudder models [https://virpil-controls.eu/shop/rudder-pedals.html[ can anyone comment on the relative pros/cons of these models, for IL2/DCS use-case, with a little MSFS use. Wondering what the additional features of the higher price models really add, over basic rudder control and I assume wheel break functions. Similar pricing but do these compare favorably with the MFG Crosswind rudder dburne recommended above? Again, this assumes I can mix and match these products.

 

Also one thing I really like about my VKB MCG Pro grip - both the flip up trigger and paddle lever are metal rather than plastic.

On my original Virpil T-50 grip the flip up trigger was plastic and broke off within a few months. They promptly sent me another , just was an annoyance.

No idea what their latest iteration uses.

[NiiranenVR]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

Virpil T-50 grip the flip up trigger was plastic

U remember what the trigger did .... It have 1 click when 'go down' and click when you pull 

[dburne]

40 minutes ago, Niiranen-VR said:

U remember what the trigger did .... It have 1 click when 'go down' and click when you pull 

 

No sorry can't really remember, I know it just broke off one day whilst using.

[Crowgasm]

I'm gonna end up buying too much gear, at this rate...

 

Any group thoughts on MFG vs. Virpil vs. Slaw rudder pedals, in terms of compatibility issues, build quality, etc?

[Sokol1]

4 hours ago, Crowgasm said:

I assume I had no issues with matching a VKB base/grip to other pedals, since VKB only appears to have one pedal option which looks more basic - the T-Rudder MK IV 

No issues in mixing different brands of controllers,  pedal, throttle, rudder pedals, quadrant, each is "entities" individual.

The only thing that you can't do is use VKB grip's in other brands bases, a "no go".

But VKB bases accept Thrustmastger F-16 and F-18 grips with an extra electronic/mechanic adapter.

VirPil base accept Thmr F-16, F-18 grips "bolt and play" (well, + firmware update).

 

4 hours ago, Crowgasm said:

 

Curious, if anyone would mind following up, where Virpil have 4 rudder models [https://virpil-controls.eu/shop/rudder-pedals.html[ can anyone comment on the relative pros/cons of these models, for IL2/DCS use-case, with a little MSFS use. Wondering what the additional features of the higher price models really add, over basic rudder control and I assume wheel break functions. Similar pricing but do these compare favorably with the MFG Crosswind rudder dburne recommended above? 

 

Virpil pedals variation sare the same pedal (mechanics, electronics) with more or less features.

 

First model don't have brakes, and is for use with heels on floor, visually based on Mi-8 helicopter rudder pedals.

 

Second model has brakes and is for use with foots "in the air", e.g. bf 109,Fw 190 pedals.

 

Thirty model is the same, but now with foot rest for use with heels on floor - some people call then "combat", because resemble some jets pedals.

 

Fourth model is the same, but came with the two foot rest options, so for extra ~$50 can try both otpions.

 

Operate pedals with heels on floor is less tiresome than with foots "in the air" - require only legs, foot movement, but use heels on floor in a conventional office chair is not much convenient, here the foots" in the air" is more practical, despite require foot, legs and some hip movement. Heels on floor is ideal in some  kin of "pit" in what you sit lower.

 

Cost wise MFG has the best bang factor, they made only pedals, and are on the market around 10 years.

They are not "the best" but in mechanics, electronics features are on par with VPC, Slaws, models that are better for specific uses, like heels on floor, add motorcycle damper (on Slaws) - with DIY mods is possible install in MCF and VPC.

[Crowgasm]

Great info - thank you. I sold a kidney and have a Virpil base/stick on order. Still procrastinating on rudder and custom throttle, since I can't find any lefty throttles.

[ciderworm]

Crowgasm, gvl224 can make you a lefty, that is a right hand operated throttle, there are some examples on his thread.

[jollyjack]

On 8/25/2020 at 12:38 AM, Crowgasm said:

Hi Folks, ..... I see the Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog stick/throttle combo sitting as a common recommendation but it doesn't come with pedals and I'm looking for something a bit more upscale, heavy, sturdy and high quality, perhaps. Also, the option of interchangeable sticks between WWII and modern jet is nice

 

I modded my warthog with this exchange button from Deltasim for rudder, as i did not want pedals as extra ... works well

https://deltasimelectronics.com/products/thumbstick-slew-sensor-adapter

 

[Crowgasm]

On 8/28/2020 at 4:49 AM, ciderworm said:

Crowgasm, gvl224 can make you a lefty, that is a right hand operated throttle, there are some examples on his thread.

Thanks for the recommendation - I believe someone else mentioned this above, too. I did contact gvl224 and am browsing his models to create something custom. Looks like nicely put together gear. 

On 8/28/2020 at 4:54 AM, jollyjack said:

 

I modded my warthog with this exchange button from Deltasim for rudder, as i did not want pedals as extra ... works well

https://deltasimelectronics.com/products/thumbstick-slew-sensor-adapter

 

 

That looks like a nice alternative, although I think I'd create a disaster if I tried the same. I also want and have room for pedals, so it seems the better option.