ground effect

[ensempre]

Hi all,

is "ground effect" modeled in the sim?

Thanks

[jollyjack]

you mean ground looping?

[LukeFF]

14 minutes ago, ensempre said:

Hi all,

is "ground effect" modeled in the sim?

Thanks

 

Yes

 

13 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

you mean ground looping?

 

No

[Noisemaker]

Go land a Spitfire, you'll quickly find that ground effect is in full effect.

[danielprates]

Its about damn time we got some erkanoplanes on this sim.

[jollyjack]

12 minutes ago, Noisemaker said:

Go land a Spitfire, you'll quickly find that ground effect is in full effect.

 

Yep, almost seems harder to land than before ... the finesses of IL2 keep amazing me! Spit landing in CloD is quite easier LoL.

[Noisemaker]

I think it's saved my bacon on more than one occasion in ground attack runs that were too shallow or started too low and too fast.  Like a cushion you kind of bounce off of at the last second before hitting the dirt.

[istari6]

My impression is that ground effect, if present, is modeled far less than DCS.  I've flown real light GA aircraft, and DCS feels more real in the "floaty" sensation right before touchdown.  I find flaring in IL-2 harder, the aircraft seem to descend right down to the ground with little or no buffering effect from ground effect.  I have no data to back this up, based entirely on subjective feel.  YMMV.

[Legioneod]

2 hours ago, istari6 said:

My impression is that ground effect, if present, is modeled far less than DCS.  I've flown real light GA aircraft, and DCS feels more real in the "floaty" sensation right before touchdown.  I find flaring in IL-2 harder, the aircraft seem to descend right down to the ground with little or no buffering effect from ground effect.  I have no data to back this up, based entirely on subjective feel.  YMMV.

I do find landing in DCS far "easier" (or better) than in Il2, I've never been able to get a smooth landing in Il2 like I can in DCS, I usually float alot in il2 and then bounce a bunch of times. Can never seem to get it right.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Legioneod

[danielprates]

12 hours ago, Legioneod said:

I do find landing in DCS far "easier" (or better) than in Il2, I've never been able to get a smooth landing in Il2 like I can in DCS, I usually float alot in il2 and then bounce a bunch of times. Can never seem to get it right.

 

I am glad I am not the only one. For years I thought my bumpy landings were to blame on the joystick settings and lack of fine(r) control.

[=FEW=fernando11]

I used to have that problem a Lot. Are you guys using landing flaps? Also check the speed, I was having troubles witht the 109s, landing too fast, probably arround 180-190 km/h

Try slowe, way slower than your used to, if todo slow, you might bump the landing gear, wich can take it. But you wont bounce

[DBFlyguy]

Central talked about the landing realism differences in a video last year:

 

I tend to agree with his assessment on this one. 

[Guest deleted@134347]

2 hours ago, DBFlyguy said:

I tend to agree with his assessment on this one.

 

I started flying DCS first when it came out with the VR integration. And boy, was it a tough school to go thru with the Spit, landings especially. Then we got VR in IL2 and the landings were a breeze, which kind of made me think if IL2 was a bit on the arcade side, mistakenly or not I can't say. But not having any experience with actual real landings I just let it go and started to enjoy the game regardless of all this.

[istari6]

DCS models ground effect more realistically (to my "feel" compared to a modest amount of RL flying).  But it ALSO models yaw changes from torque, slip/skid effects, crosswinds much more completely.  The result is that (for me) DCS landings are harder during the approach, but the final flare and touchdown is easier.  IL-2 seems to have a partial "fly-by-wire" system counteracting many of the yaw swings and oscillations of real aircraft, but then also has very little ground effect.  So approach is easier, but it's really hard to "grease" the landings in the flareout.  

 

My head canon is that DCS is an aircraft simulator, while IL-2 is a combat pilot simulator.  IL-2 models all the trained reflexes and muscle memory of an experienced pilot, automatically smoothing out oscillations, etc. The sort of instinctive flying they wouldn't consciously think about doing after several hundred hours of flying, allowing us to focus on the "higher level" flying decisions. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by istari6

[Guest deleted@134347]

20 minutes ago, istari6 said:

My head canon is that DCS is an aircraft simulator, while IL-2 is a combat pilot simulator.  IL-2 models all the trained reflexes and muscle memory of an experienced pilot, automatically smoothing out oscillations, etc. The sort of instinctive flying they wouldn't consciously think about doing after several hundred hours of flying, allowing us to focus on the "higher level" flying decisions. 

 

that's definitely an interesting take on the two sims and it makes sense when put like that.

[=FEW=fernando11]

11 hours ago, =FEW=fernando11 said:

I used to have that problem a Lot. Are you guys using landing flaps? Also check the speed, I was having troubles witht the 109s, landing too fast, probably arround 180-190 km/h

Try slowe, way slower than your used to, if todo slow, you might bump the landing gear, wich can take it. But you wont bounce

 

Not to brag about. But I think this was quite a nice landing...

I think its worth noting that the plane mantains the same attitude (nose high) throughout the process, and the big change in altitude (sink rate) was done only by throttle.

[StickMan]

All of you are coming in way too hot. Bunch of speed freaks ?  Keep the speed down and you can plant landings, no problem

[MasserME262]

I can do very soft landings in certain planes (109-190-macchi), not always (maybe 1/10 landings), but I think that's just because of my lack of proper joystick handling when doing the flare. I think you can actually land very softly consistently with enough practice