Head Shake does more than just that

[Warmoer]

One of the most frustrating camera feature in a sim is when it decides for you where you should be looking at. The worst features are a lagging roll or pitch as an attempt to simulate momentum lag in head movement. For instance, the aircraft to the left, and the camera will try to align your head with the horizon as long as possible. Wag the wings wildly from side to side, and the pilot head/camera will lag behind.

These are features I turn off immediately as (for me) it detracts from the flying experience. Compared to past real life experience, these effects in sims seem over-exaggerated. 

What I do like are the shaking camera effects that convey engine vibrations, weapon deployment or airflow buffets as this is the only real way to convey these to the virtual pilot. Sadly the forced head movement (that I don't want) and the actual camera head shake (that I do want) are bound to the same realism option in the menu under 'Head Shake'. Turning this option off solves the first issue, but creates a very sterile cockpit environment with very little to no feedback.

Is there something I can edit or modify that will allow only the head shaking feature and disable the momentum/direction change lag ones?

[Art-J]

I wouldn't mind turning off or toning down cannon deployment shaking, 'cause it looks more as if the plane was falling to pieces after propeller failure rather than vibrating slightly from shooting (Hurricane IIc, I'm looking at you :>).

[Avimimus]

I personally find the Gee-effects on the pilot perspective to be a major selling point for this sim... it uses vision to give more of a sense of motion that one would feel as a pilot... so I'd like to see it kept as an option for those of us who adore it. I could see adding an option (or keyboard command) to turn it off for those who don't like it though. But, I do want to point out that some of us think it makes the sim more realistic and visceral.

5 hours ago, Art-J said:

I wouldn't mind turning off or toning down cannon deployment shaking, 'cause it looks more as if the plane was falling to pieces after propeller failure rather than vibrating slightly from shooting (Hurricane IIc, I'm looking at you :>).

 

Only if the Hispano cannon audio gets changed to make it feel more powerful... I find the 0.303s seem to carry more weight (and the 0.50s)... without the shake it would be hard to tell the things are firing as it currently is.

[SCG_motoadve]

CLOD and DCS headshake is way over modeled like if the pilot has a body made out of jelly, totally unrealistic.

Good thing there is an option to turn it off, but then like the OP says you loose other effects.

[Jabo_68*]

Get used to it, as there's a whole lotta shakin' goin' on in this sim.?

[GOA_Karaya_VR]

Please.. we need some modification by the developers on the headshake system.. its near to unrealistic and kills all the joy of the sim

[Trooper117]

It's all unrealistic mate, we are playing a flight sim 'game'...

[Lusekofte]

Such a drama. It does not ruin anything. Might be annoying at worst. 
But maybe something can be done

[Warmoer]

To ask the question again, is it possible to modify a file somewhere to change these effects that anyone know of? It would be awesome if some effects can be dulled if not able to remove them entirely. With head shake disabled I have found very little feedback before accelerated stalls and prefer to have that feedback on. When I roll the aircraft and the camera starts tilting my head to the side, that makes my unhappy. There must be a way to separate these components?

[Wolfstriked]

I agree Warmoer about the head moving side to side with roll is not for everyone.DCS had this also and they made an option to turn it off cause I think some people still preferred it.Probably the devs are really busy and just don't have time for this right now.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Wolfstriked

[Buzzsaw]

Our recommendation is you turn off the headshake option if you are finding the effect annoying.

 

Modifying this element is not one of our current priorities... we have quite a number of other issues higher on the list we need to focus on.

[Warmoer]

5 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Our recommendation is you turn off the headshake option if you are finding the effect annoying.

 

Modifying this element is not one of our current priorities... we have quite a number of other issues higher on the list we need to focus on.

 

Thanks Buzzsaw, I appreciate that. I was trying to find out if there was an easy way that a user could affect these changes, and I now understand that these variables are not exposed. Hopefully this is something that can be considered if priorities overlap with the camera system in the future.

[Bert_Foster]

On 8/7/2020 at 5:23 PM, Warmoer said:

One of the most frustrating camera feature in a sim is when it decides for you where you should be looking at. The worst features are a lagging roll or pitch as an attempt to simulate momentum lag in head movement. For instance, the aircraft to the left, and the camera will try to align your head with the horizon as long as possible. Wag the wings wildly from side to side, and the pilot head/camera will lag behind.

These are features I turn off immediately as (for me) it detracts from the flying experience. Compared to past real life experience, these effects in sims seem over-exaggerated. 

What I do like are the shaking camera effects that convey engine vibrations, weapon deployment or airflow buffets as this is the only real way to convey these to the virtual pilot. Sadly the forced head movement (that I don't want) and the actual camera head shake (that I do want) are bound to the same realism option in the menu under 'Head Shake'. Turning this option off solves the first issue, but creates a very sterile cockpit environment with very little to no feedback.

Is there something I can edit or modify that will allow only the head shaking feature and disable the momentum/direction change lag ones?

Agree 100%

 

Be nice if this effect was active client side and not a server setting realism option.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Bert_Foster

[Mr_Steven]

I feel like gunnery is so easy compared to real life that the head movement helps create a balance.

 

You guys are probably all just used to BoX gunnery, which is ridiculously easy.

[Bert_Foster]

You done AA gunnery IRL Mr_Steven ?

Edited August 16, 2020 by Bert_Foster

[Barnacles]

2 hours ago, Bert_Foster said:

Agree 100%

 

Be nice if this effect was active client side and not a server setting realism option.

Yes, please make this a client side setting. I don't want to ruin the super immersive goldfish bowl experience for those who are used to it, but for the game to thrive it'll be better not to have it as a server setting, as it'll make MP less accessible for those lesser mortals who are used to other games.

26 minutes ago, Mr_Steven said:

I feel like gunnery is so easy compared to real life that the head movement helps create a balance.

 

You guys are probably all just used to BoX gunnery, which is ridiculously easy.

Well IRL, It was possible hold your head steady whilst bracing your head against the smallest of forces. More difficult does not necessarily mean more realistic.

[LLv34_Temuri]

5 hours ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

More difficult does not necessarily mean more realistic.

This is something many simmers should finally realize.

[Mr_Steven]

In a sim we get to sit comfortably in a chair with next to no actual physical exertion, stress or fatigue.

 

I'm not saying this implementation is necessarily closer to real life, but it does chip away a little bit at how much easier a sim is than a real life dogfight due to the fact we're not actually in the airplanes doing it.

 

I'm used to it, and rather than whine and complain, maybe if you try and get used to it too, you'll understand what I'm saying.

 

There's a reason Oleg put it in there.

[LLv34_Temuri]

11 minutes ago, Mr_Steven said:

There's a reason Oleg put it in there.

Sure. It's just overdone.

[Wolfstriked]

4 hours ago, Mr_Steven said:

There's a reason Oleg put it in there.

If it moved when you do very fast roll movements and moved back to center just as fast IMO it would add something.Right now it makes the planes feel wonky.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Wolfstriked

[Barnacles]

I really don't understand the justification of 'you can get used to it' as a legitimate justification for leaving broken stuff in the game.

 

(and it is broken, for the reason @Wolfstriked identifies above)

 

If people universally had that attitude, FMs would never get refined. There's a lot of stuff TF are improving right now but by @Mr_Steven 's logic, it's ok because if it makes the game 'harder' then it's a desirable feature and TF shouldn't bother with any rectification of the game's original flaws.

 

I do accept that it might not be a priority, and therefore be put behind other more pressing improvements, but ultimately, if VR is implemented it will be absolutely essential to at least remove it for VR users, so hopefully when that happens the devs will go the whole hog and have it as a client side setting.

 

Until that time, I'll practice playing the game by holding the joystick with my feet, because it'll make it more difficult and once I get used to it it'll bring me closer to experiencing the challenges faced by those brave men in the real planes.

 

 

But sorry, that's not really constructive, it would arguable be just as 'broken' an unrealistic to not have any forces acting on your virtual 'head' so I try to be so and just expand upon this.

43 minutes ago, Wolfstriked said:

If it moved when you do very fast roll movements and moved back to center just as fast IMO it would add something.Right now it makes the planes feel wonky.

As it's implemented in game, Wolfstriked is exactly right. Although you could justify the head being displaced laterally by force created by the initial roll, that force disappears once a roll rate is established. Your head should move back to the centre once the forces acting on it disappear. 

[SJ_Butcher]

Could you please do a list so we can vote? I think there are a lot of missing things that need to be fixed first.

[Mr_Steven]

Barnacles, your inability to understand my point is just laughable and it is clearly futile for me to continue.

 

"More difficult = better" is all you can take away from that? Embarrasing, mate. Playing with your feet? What?

 

The planes only feel 'wonky' to those who are used to flying lesser sims.

 

 

[Wolfstriked]

The only way this would be done properly is the way that DCS did and make it an option so there is the least amount of quarreling.

[Mr_Steven]

I like the feature, you have to sort of settle your airplane before firing.

 

I wouldn't hate it if it was toned down like 25% or something but anything more than that and gunnery just gets too easy.

 

Spectacular shots are a lot less spectacular when they happen all the time, and it's a lot easier when your gunsight is glued to the centre of your screen.