SRS and teamplay - an idea

[Flitgun]

I was just reading feedback about SRS, and it got me thinking...

 

It's early days yet and I look forward to becoming more accustomed to SRS and the fine tuning that will follow. One problem expressed was that it was difficult for the various groups to know what was going on with each other in the other channels. So fighter group 1, for example, might be oblivious to the fact that bomber group 2 are being attacked until too late. Gaining intel as to other groups would require an individual to go in and ask. Multiple pilots trying to achieve local and global situational awareness is predicted to be a busy, disorganised radio chatter chaos. This is not much different to the problem we already had - different groups in various different discord and teamspeak channels - all oblivious to each other, all doing their own thing, not working together.

 

Certainly many are aware of the real life solution to this problem and this is the implementation of the 'communications operator'. The communications operator will monitor all channels and create cohesion between the groups by providing relevant intel to the relevant group. Nevermind the name 'communications operator' - I am merely describing the function.  

 

This would require a minor software modification so that this role and place holder can monitor all channels on their red or blue side.

 

SRS is merely the tool and the sky's the limit. Imagine if the role was called 'wing commander' and the role is to not only monitor the channels, but to plan, organise and direct coordinated missions! That excites me. Imagine many players all taking off together, going to the same place, rendezvous with the bombers, etc. This kind of gameplay is only available offline with bots or to members of the largest squadclans and even then only at their organised events. With the wing commander role, this kind of gameplay is available anytime a player logs in, providing someone is man enough to step up and lead.

 

In my opinion this would be a game changer. It would transform IL2 from what is for many a lonely, confusing and isolated experience into a very involved, stimulating experience that makes the plane simulator also a 'warfare simulator'. This kind of thing is in place in some 'realistic' warfare games/simulators and one might say it is an acquired taste among gamers. I think it fits in very well with IL2. 

 

[ITAF_Airone1989]

Nice idea.

We did exactly what you said, but with human as wing commander, and it was GREAT! 

 

I'm not really sure if a SRS could organise something like that, but for sure it's the way this game should go to do a big step forward.

[Flitgun]

55 minutes ago, ITAF_Airone1989 said:

I'm not really sure if a SRS could organise something like that, but for sure it's the way this game should go to do a big step forward.

 

It would be the leadership and skill of the wing commander that would organise something like that. SRS is only the tool to enable him/her to do so.

 

I see SRS as a communication tool that brings everybody together. Ideally SRS would come with the game package and doesn't require a player to add code.

[SIA_Sp00k]

Join a Squadron, never be lonely, confused or isolated again!

 

In truth, it may work for disciplined membership but my experience of it so far while loving the concept, is that community is as yet to embrace the concept of this communications medium as quickly as I might have first anticipated. Oddly I find the Axis side seems to embrace it far more than the Allied side.   There are of course 1 or 2 groups that seem to use it regularly, though  apparently, not exclusively and the old lonely, confused, and isolated player that blunders onto a channel where someone answered back with “FivebyFive” to be followed by a brief statement and silence for another hour.

 

Not sure why that is.  Presumably the nature of Squadron Comms (Discord, TS or other) still holds primacy with Squadrons for internal communication as we would expect and SRS is being used as a listening post to attempt to identify areas of enemy contact as opposed to calling for organised collective response from multiple elements within the side.

 

I suspect SRS needs to grow on the community a bit more before it is embraced to the point where more than a couple of individuals may attempt to act as ground control in the many of which you speak.

 

Fingers crossed it is soon, its a great Comms tool when used properly.

Edited July 20, 2020 by TWC_Sp00k

[Flitgun]

1 hour ago, TWC_Sp00k said:

Not sure why that is.  Presumably the nature of Squadron Comms (Discord, TS or other) still holds primacy with Squadrons for internal communication as we would expect and SRS is being used as a listening post to attempt to identify areas of enemy contact as opposed to calling for organised collective response from multiple elements within the side.

 

I suspect SRS needs to grow on the community a bit more before it is embraced to the point where more than a couple of individuals may attempt to act as ground control in the many of which you speak.

 

Yes. I'm sure SRS is not being used to full potential precisely because of habits of using Discord, Teamspeak. I'd put money on that. This is something that has bugged me for some time, and I have talked about that in the past. Various groups in various communication channels fragment a team into groups that are blind (deaf) to each other.

 

Now I understand the attraction of talking to your buddies, of course. I do it myself. One has online gaming buddies, they get to know each other, learn habits and strategies together and fly well together. It's fun and you can talk shiz on the way. Awesome. Certainly I am not lonely, confused or isolated - I was putting myself in the position of a new player or one who has not found buddies or even a player whose buddies are none online.

 

We are creatures of habit and old habits die hard. I am not suggesting people don't use their private discord/TS. What I am suggesting is that those private places are used for the chit chat, and SRS is used for tactical gameplay only. There would be channels for flight leaders and the wing commander and channels for the various flights/areas. Some of these channels would be able to doubled - so a flight leader can communicate with a wing commander and their flight.

 

Here are some aspects I imagine a wing commander using SRS (and perhaps just SRS) may bring to the game. It:

 

a) Enhances the gaming experience in that the game feels less like a 'do as you like' and more of a 'we're all doing this'.

b) Directs players who would otherwise fly lone wolf to fly with others.

c) Makes new players (and old hands) feel more 'involved'. New players may feel less inclined to walk away from the game due to this sense of involvement and possibly a better gaming experience because they flew in an awesome strike mission with 10 other planes as opposed to flying around solo for 40 minutes and not seeing a soul.

d) Improves potential for massive battles when organised and opposing flights meet.

 

I hope you're right - that SRS does grow on players. and the community At the same time I hope people will use SRS and consider others outside of their own groups by making an effort to use it for tactical comms and not restricting that to their chit chat channel.

 

I think people are going to have to make an effort to use SRS, rather than wait for it to waft over them somehow.

 

[RedKestrel]

2 hours ago, TWC_Sp00k said:

Join a Squadron, never be lonely, confused or isolated again!

 

In truth, it may work for disciplined membership but my experience of it so far while loving the concept, is that community is as yet to embrace the concept of this communications medium as quickly as I might have first anticipated. Oddly I find the Axis side seems to embrace it far more than the Allied side.   There are of course 1 or 2 groups that seem to use it regularly, though  apparently, not exclusively and the old lonely, confused, and isolated player that blunders onto a channel where someone answered back with “FivebyFive” to be followed by a brief statement and silence for another hour.

 

Not sure why that is.  Presumably the nature of Squadron Comms (Discord, TS or other) still holds primacy with Squadrons for internal communication as we would expect and SRS is being used as a listening post to attempt to identify areas of enemy contact as opposed to calling for organised collective response from multiple elements within the side.

 

I suspect SRS needs to grow on the community a bit more before it is embraced to the point where more than a couple of individuals may attempt to act as ground control in the many of which you speak.

 

Fingers crossed it is soon, its a great Comms tool when used properly.

 

SRS is sort of suffering the Standards problem IMO:

 

 

I find SRS much less of a pain than Discord or Teamspeak. Discord takes forever to launch and always needs an update, Teamspeak is OK but rarely used, and neither of the overlays work consistently for me in Il-2. Setting it up took a bit of tweaking and I'm sure that little bit of inconvenience turned off a few people who already happily use Discord or Teamspeak. Inertia is a big thing, and more casual players may balk at altering config files. 

I think if they built it into the game a little more, and enough people got on it, it would be somewhat more widely adopted. Right now all I know is its simple to use once you get it set up, channel hopping is easy, and PTT means I don't get background noise or off-topic conversations as much. So I'm on that instead of discord, even if I'm just talking to myself sometimes. I figure at least there are a couple people silently monitoring the channel judging from the numbers in the overlay.


 

[Otto_bann]

The SRS is in his early days on our simulator.

 

If it is not yet used enough but I notice that there are a little more people for a few days (I'm on the blue side at the moment).

 

Many more players seem to listen rather than speak. The likely reason is that speaking in English is not so easy for them (and me). I don't always understand what an American or an English guy says when he speaks as if those listening are necessarily English or American (if he speaks quickly and not necessarily in basic words) Especially in a fight where the time is not appropriate to translate.

 

Perhaps it would be useful for each squad to publish on its forum and in its language a translation of the essential and basic words / phrase to use on our simulator.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Otto_bann

[THERION]

30 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

even if I'm just talking to myself sometimes

 

That's absolutely OK, mate, with a certain age such things happen - to me too.

[RedKestrel]

46 minutes ago, Otto_bann said:

The SRS is in his early days on our simulator.

 

If it is not yet used enough but I notice that there are a little more people for a few days (I'm on the blue side at the moment).

 

Many more players seem to listen rather than speak. The likely reason is that speaking in English is not so easy for them (and me). I don't always understand what an American or an English guy says when he speaks as if those listening are necessarily English or American (if he speaks quickly and not necessarily in basic words) Especially in a fight where the time is not appropriate to translate.

 

Perhaps it would be useful for each squad to publish on its forum and in its language a translation of the essential and basic words / phrase to use on our simulator.

Unfortunately us english speakers really are spoiled and there's a basic assumption that it's everybody else's job to learn the English language. If squads go to the effort of posting those basic translations for people to know, I think it would also be useful for english speakers to make a similar effort keep their vocabulary standardized and pronunciation in a way that makes them easier to understand. 

Other than speaking clearly and using more common words, is there anything else that one could do to be more clearly understood?

[CountZero]

Why would i use in game voice program when i can use ts3? in game i have to be on server so how to coordinate before what server to join ? if server crashes no voice so how to inform others what now, what server to join, its useless when we have time tested programs, and now i should use some other program like ts3 lol no thanks.

 

Regarding coordination, its all about people no aditional programs will change that, if im playing in events i care about team work i will spend many h in week plan what to do in next mission or spend time on some random server training for next mission, when both side give it all in that 2-3h once or two times a week it makes sence to take it seriously.

And then when i play with thouse same players on random fast food 24/7 server i have no reason to take any of it as seriously, so if some random guy is on top of that giving me orders in head set why would i even not mute or lisen what they wont, i wont to be on my own group ts3 and do what i wont on 24/7 servers.

 

What this game lacks is events we had in old il-2, this is where people wont coordination and will take it seriously who do what, it has to many 24/7 fast food stuff and you aint gona have people who play there to take it seriously and cooperate no mather what you do as it doesent mather who win or do what as its 24/7 every day... its like playing some sport ball game 24/7 with random players and not eaqual conditions insted for 2-3h when team and coach are focus. 

 

They can implement voic in game, they can add marshal but still nothing will change for 24/7 servers as there is no initiative to take them seriously compared to organaised events, and for them all this stuff is not neccesary.

 

Many times i see people in chat asking why no one is coordinating stuff, you tell them join ts3 there is useal 10-15 guys doing organaised attacks (they dont waist time on game chat) and then ppl complaining dont do that simple step, so why would you expect them to take any seroious atempts in coordination when joining ts3 is to mutch to ask, you realy think that player will lisen what some rando is teling him, or some veterans will spend time with some noobs in ingame voice program , when they have programs like ts3 working just fine...

Edited July 20, 2020 by CountZero

[IRRE_Nyechou]

I

8 minutes ago, CountZero said:

Why would i use in game voice program when i can use ts3?

 

Why not both ? TS3 to chat with your squad, as usual . And SRS to share strategic informations with "strangers" . With the crunchy radio sound you easily know who speaks .Maybe only one guy in your team will need it, and act as a communication officer . It can be used just like teamchat, to signal bandits or request escort, but in a way more immersive manner .

[ITAF_Airone1989]

59 minutes ago, -IRRE-Nyechou said:

I

 

Why not both ? TS3 to chat with your squad, as usual . And SRS to share strategic informations with "strangers" . With the crunchy radio sound you easily know who speaks .Maybe only one guy in your team will need it, and act as a communication officer . It can be used just like teamchat, to signal bandits or request escort, but in a way more immersive manner .

I think this could be the best use right now

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, -IRRE-Nyechou said:

I

 

Why not both ? TS3 to chat with your squad, as usual . And SRS to share strategic informations with "strangers" . With the crunchy radio sound you easily know who speaks .Maybe only one guy in your team will need it, and act as a communication officer . It can be used just like teamchat, to signal bandits or request escort, but in a way more immersive manner .

If i wont i can share info in chat to guys who dont wont to use ts3 of server, i dont need to instal other program to do so or use in game voice stuff that is totaly unneccesary and would be another strain on bad net code of this game. With ts3 i can at same time be on other players squad ts3 and on servers ts3 i can have whisper if i wont to split groups in smaller sections and i can share data and its not depanded on game it self, no need for anything els. And if some new players wont to do team work, then bare minimum is to show that they can join program most players use to do team work on server you play, if thats to mutch to ask then that person is not team player and no need to waist my time on them. To me this all is waist of devs time, in game voice, air marsha and so on... fixing problems that dont exist with stuff that wont be more usefull then what we can do now and its done now without them. Same guys who complain about no team work now will complain about no team work then, and same guys who enjoy team work now will continue to do so same way.

Edited July 20, 2020 by CountZero

[Flitgun]

2 hours ago, CountZero said:

Why would i use in game voice program when i can use ts3? in game i have to be on server so how to coordinate before what server to join ? if server crashes no voice so how to inform others what now, what server to join, its useless when we have time tested programs, and now i should use some other program like ts3 lol no thanks.

 

I understand the developers may improve the way SRS functions within the game, if they believe there is enough interest in it.

 

2 hours ago, CountZero said:

Regarding coordination, its all about people no aditional programs will change that...

Many times i see people in chat asking why no one is coordinating stuff, you tell them join ts3 there is useal 10-15 guys doing organaised attacks (they dont waist time on game chat) and then ppl complaining dont do that simple step, so why would you expect them to take any seroious atempts in coordination when joining ts3 is to mutch to ask, you realy think that player will lisen what some rando is teling him, or some veterans will spend time with some noobs in ingame voice program , when they have programs like ts3 working just fine...

 

I worry a tiny fraction about whether every individual will be following orders and acres more about who will have the balls to step up and lead ...and do it well.

 

1. If there are 30 players on one team and 20 of them ignore the directions and efforts of the commander for whatever reason, so be it. Nevertheless, I'm certain those remaining 10 players are having an enhanced experience working together when perhaps otherwise they wouldn't have been.

 

2. The function of the wing commander is not to micro manage individuals - the WC task is to have strategic aims and set tasks to the flight leaders (leaders of groups of 5 or so) and enable them to better achieve their aims by coordinating other flights to complement them. 

 

3. The WC's main asset and measure of success will be personality and leadership skills. 

 

4. Fifteen people in one channel is too many. As soon as a combat scenario occurs - they can't effectively communicate. Fifteen people in one channel is purely social. I imagine varying SRS channels of flights of max 6 pilots.

 

 

 

35 minutes ago, CountZero said:

If i wont i can share info in chat to guys who dont wont to use ts3 of server, i dont need to instal other program to do so or use in game voice stuff that is totaly unneccesary and would be another strain on bad net code of this game. With ts3 i can at same time be on other players squad ts3 and on servers ts3 i can have whisper if i wont to split groups in smaller sections and i can share data and its not depanded on game it self, no need for anything els. And if some new players wont to do team work, then bare minimum is to show that they can join program most players use to do team work on server you play, if thats to mutch to ask then that person is not team player and no need to waist my time on them. To me this all is waist of devs time, in game voice, air marsha and so on... fixing problems that dont exist with stuff that wont be more usefull then what we can do now and its done now without them. Same guys who complain about no team work now will complain about no team work then, and same guys who enjoy team work now will continue to do so same way.

 

I am about enhancing teamwork and making it available for all players who want it all the time they play. I am not saying there is no teamwork, but I am saying I think it it is somewhat handicapped in the way it has evolved into different communication platforms and splinter groups.

 

There is a distinct limitation to teamwork, in my view, with having one group in private Discord thunderbolts channel, others in Discord banana channel, and 3 or 4 others, and more in a Teamspeak server, and others in another Teamspeak server. The problem isn't that people can't be bothered with teamwork - it's because they are limited in being able to. Players are all over the place, unable to communicate, fragmented in little private groups of websites and timezones and squads. There are little groups doing their own thing and completely blind to the other 90% players on their team. 

 

SRS embedded into the game is the only way to ensure the whole team is on the same page. As a result of everybody being in the same place - there are more possibilities for players to coordinate with each other.

 

I don't know anything about coding and writing software, but I will hazard a guess that the vast majority of work is already done. 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Flitgun

[CountZero]

I played in many online wars in il-2, i even planed missions for them, organised stuff, run air stuff in mission with 50+ players on side, and so on... when there is goal ppl have no problem to spend time to organise stuff and lead or falow orders for 2-3h in week for few months. And then i and same players who would do that would go on 24/7 servers in week days and just do what ever, no aim to organaise exept us few for our selfish reasons of what not, or go for objectives as its 24/7 server no point in taking it serious in what side will win mission when other 20h in day i have no say in it, or players can just null all effort in 0vs 10 time on mission, so why spend my precious time taking something like that seriously, concept of 24/7 makes players care less, same players i see spending so many h in week practicing for that 2-3h mission in campaign or oline war and behaving like pros i would not recognise on 24/7 fast food server for anything els then some noobs, as there is no need for effort there its just fun time care free.

There is no way i would join 24/7 server, where missions are random, and now i go and take role of comander or marshal in midell of mission, then half of next mission, thats what 3-4h of my play time, and take that seriusly when i know other h in day all what was done there is for nothing. And thats knowing 40+ missions for server as they are random, they dont start or end when i wont to be wing comander or have time for it, or on virtual pilots where mission is 6h, so what i should spend half of mission organise stuff for some random guys, and then for next 3h its free for all... it dosent work on 24/7 servers serious players will not take them seriously and waist their time on it, they will play for fun with their group of players on their ts3 or what not not bathered by others like its now and for last 10+ years...When ppl wont to play as a team they organise on forums or ts3 in squads and so on... all this exists and i see no need for anther program like srs, or in game voice or air marshal stuff, as ppl who wont to do that stuff are doing it without them and ppl who wont to do team work join them in squads or events and so on...

From my expiriance of playing online in il-2 in various types of missions/DF or coop servers for many years i belive no mather what they do nothing will change, only on organaised wars or events where ppl reserve slots, where people plan mission, you will have ppl who are wiling to take it seriously, in random 24/7 servers we have here nothing will change, same 10-15 ppl who are doing organised stuff now will continue to do so, and others will just do their own stuff and not mined any orders given by some rando on voice or air marshal system, as there is no point for taking them seriously.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by CountZero

[Flitgun]

7 hours ago, CountZero said:

I played in many online wars in il-2,................................................., as there is no point for taking them seriously.

 

So to summarise, I understand you are saying

 

You like teamplay and you do that in Teamspeak with your buddies at organised events. You believe that those who aren't in Teamspeak during those events or any other times aren't team players and you don't see the point in putting any effort into trying to organise them, especially when you consider the server a run of the mill 'practise server'.

 

Is that right, more or less?

 

Well, that's fine. If you don't want to, then.... don't. As for me, I disagree with your conclusions about other players and I am not willing to write them all off because they are not in your Teamspeak channel, or the other one.

[ITAF_Airone1989]

I think that CountZero centred the point.

A lot of people would like to cooperate, but the problem is not the way you communicate.

I really love SRS, but TS and Discord can do basically the same -> we have no coordination on the servers.

And this is because they run 24/7.

On Italianwings we did a kind of test campaign about BoB, it worked great cause was just one night per week.

This mean that we had time to organise the teams, do briefings, play and then debrief the mission.

In my opinion this is the best way to play ever.

Requires a lot of time and effort, but it worth it.

And we did it not because some kind of communication program, but because the "one night per week" formula.

 

Sketch is doing something similar in combat box (using SRS) but still, is one night per week.

He has time to collects subscription, do briefing, ecc ecc...

 

Hoping doing something like this just because everybody can talk to everybody is unrealistic.

The max that you can do in a normal flight is asking for some cover/find a wingman -> for sure is a step forward that help people to fly togheter, but I don't think you will ever see more than 3/4 guys coordinated.

Will be also difficult to manage a bigger group.

 

If you want to fly a "big mission", where everyone has is task and coordinate with other groups, the only solution is to organise 1/2 missions per week with a designed Blu and Red commander.

[Flitgun]

1 hour ago, ITAF_Airone1989 said:

I think......

 

 

I do not expect everybody to miraculously become teamplayers with SRS or the wing commander idea - only that I expect teamplay will increase, and that it will do significantly.

 

I don't think it is unrealistic at all to think that. I think with the possibility enabled and the inclusion of people with a drive to lead, that it could be more frequent than you think.

 

It is important that SRS is implemented into the game though, at a keystroke, as I have said previously.

 

p.s. I'm not suggesting new interfaces, or anything like that. How about wing commander says in his channel to the flight leaders "Let's attack the two westernmost targets. Group A go here, Group B go there. Group C & D cover them. Group E distract them". So simple. Flight leaders relay to this their prospective teams. Why can't this kind of thing happen any old time? One doesn't need an 'important server' or a flashy campaign or even a Euro/US timezone.

[ciribob]

The one feature SRS has over Discord and Teamspeak is proper side locking. SRS is given your current coalition by the game ensuring no one can snoop on your comms.

 

The other feature that SRS has for the "other simulator" is multiple radios, which is much easier to deal with than whisper lists in TeamSpeak, not sure Discord can even do them

 

In IL2 SRS you partially have this with the Intercom - allowing communication with your crew (tank or plane) along with main radio to communicate with your flight.

 

At the minute the SRS integration with IL2 is designed to be hugely simplified vs "the other sim" to get people used to it, and secondly only a light touch of integration as the IL2 team want to see if its worth investing more time into a tighter integration. So far the integration although light, is very good. Autoconnect being a brilliant feature to make it easy to use and get connected to the right server.

 

It'll definitely take a while to gain traction - but for comparison here is the SRS usage now in "the other sim"

IL2 SRS (this is only for people with the 1.0.0.1 release from the weekend)

 

Other Sim

 

 

There are a few features i'd like to add that I think will help with adoption:

• Either a second radio to transmit on - or a way to monitor a second frequency (optionally). This would allow a flight lead to have comms with other flight leads while also managing their own flight
• Installer and Autoupdater - For "the other sim" this was a key feature that drove adoption - a single one click install sorted everything including scripts and config

 

I used to help run a multiplayer server - it often had 60 concurrent players. It was built around SRS as the main communication tool  and worked well there. A lot of work was put in to foster communications with random players. Frequency plans and hints / prompts to use SRS  were a key part of it

 

- Taxi ,  Takeoff and landing tune X and check in

- Once in the air - check in with the Airboss / GCI on Y - if one isnt present communicate there

- Ground attack / CAP / Transport all had dedicated channels and with 3+ radios you could dip in on the other channels and see what was happening

 

A big squad event with SRS really is something worth experiencing as the immersion with all the radios chattering away is fantastic.

 

An airboss or GCI (Ground controlled Intercept) was really the feature that made SRS sing on our server and others. There are also other third party tools that added realistic radar scopes to help the GCI as well as the spectator system in game.

 

If you have ideas or suggestions - please get me on the SRS Discord https://discord.gg/vqxAw7H and happy to chat there

 

Ultimately though its brand new so it'll take a while to get anywhere! Thanks for trying it though

SRS is also not meant to be a replacement for TS3 or Discord - its just common platform for all In Game comms to happen on - briefings etc are all probably better outside of SRS

 

Edit: One final point - the multiplayer I helped run had side locking - http://gadget.buddyspike.net/ This really helped to foster a bit of team spirit - as you picked your side and were locked until the map was won. This was anywhere from a few days to a few weeks with only one side switch allowed per user in the whole scenario. 

For IL2 i dont know how possible any of that is - but for a short scenario, even a few hours, you could pick your side and make it final. Then you start to root for your team! It does have downsides as it adds another level of complication and admin overhead ("i've picked the wrong side

Edited July 22, 2020 by ciribob

[CountZero]

13 hours ago, Flitgun said:

 

So to summarise, I understand you are saying

 

You like teamplay and you do that in Teamspeak with your buddies at organised events. You believe that those who aren't in Teamspeak during those events or any other times aren't team players and you don't see the point in putting any effort into trying to organise them, especially when you consider the server a run of the mill 'practise server'.

 

Is that right, more or less?

 

Well, that's fine. If you don't want to, then.... don't. As for me, I disagree with your conclusions about other players and I am not willing to write them all off because they are not in your Teamspeak channel, or the other one.

 

Example in this Il-2 from WoL i encounter from players who ask for more organased stuff( but its tipical for any 24/7 DF server), player complains in chat that there is no team play, demands that we all go do this or that to win mission and so on... i look on ts3 im on and see useal 10-15 guys in 2 chanals cooperating and destroying ground objectives, one by one and win missions... i post to guy who complains that there is no team work, that he should join servers ts3 for team work... guy dont mined that and just spam chat with his messages, and what he thinks should be done, ignorant of useal group of players that spend most time on server and for some reason play together in somewhat coordanated manar. 

Thous guys on ts3 dont even wont to bather with chat, as comunication on ts3 is faster and more effective, they will use chat only at point where that random guy can be useful just as bait or distraction for enemy side or sorce of some info about targets hes over.

Also there is random groups of players from sqquadrons who dont wont to cooperate with anyone, and just wont to do their thing... they also play so thats more then half of players on one side doing team work while some random guy is complaining in chat that there is no teamwork as he dosent understand whats going on and thinks its total chaos, and when hes told what to do by me or who he should lisen to be useful he dosent do that, he just wonts his way of team work, on 24/7 servers you always have group of guys who are either frends of admin or just come together as they play long time that cooperate and then most of others who do their own thing... 

So i play , i pay atantion on whos doing what on server, i dont care to cooperate with them as i just do my stats farming or what not as its 24/7 server and it dosent mather who win or not, but if i see guy asking for team work i direct him where hell fined it... nd usealy players like that dont do that extra step neccesary, so i do not belive any kined of comander or marshal will change that, there is ppl who just dont wont to do hard stuff. Best way to get team work is join squadron, fined group who thinks/plays like you wont to , and organise events betwen them... and all that is done without any aditional programs even in this game.

Edited July 22, 2020 by CountZero

[Otto_bann]

Lots of development proposals around the SRS, it shows that the guys see a potential in it. Unfortunately others seem to have not yet perceived the immersive gain and the realism of this tool.

The trap would be to complicate its use when in its current version, the simplest, many pilots do not know how to use it and therefore do not use it ...

There are 5 channels. With an average of 6 people per channel (who speak + those who only listen) that makes 30 active guys per side. This seems sufficient to me knowing that since we are not static on the map, we have to change channels often (if used well like the brief say it).

@ Redkestrel: Paradoxically for us, the least easy to understand when they speak are Americans and English because they do not express themselves in the common school language that foreigners have studied elsewhere in the world (it's not exactlythe same language the most often)

Perhaps it would be useful to make a list of the 20  (30?) most useful English phrases for our simulator. They could be learned quickly by some and used as a priority by everyone. It's just an idea.

Know that the less skilled with English are forced to translate to understand what they hear or what they have to say, when ideally they should think in English (without having to translate) to be effective. In the stress of a fight it is even less easy for a foreigner who is not at ease with English. And that is why I am thinking of a short list of essential phrases to know and to use without to have to translate and for to be most often understood. The goal is that most people use the SRS and communicate more easily.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Otto_bann

[Flitgun]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

Example in this Il-2 from WoL....

 

Yes. I can relate to everything you have described. Classic examples. And you tried to do something ...even with your right wrist tied tightly to your left ankle.

 

What you need is a decent tool to work with so you've got everybody where you need them (SRS) and then some leadership skills. 

[RedKestrel]

37 minutes ago, Otto_bann said:

Lots of development proposals around the SRS, it shows that the guys see a potential in it. Unfortunately others seem to have not yet perceived the immersive gain and the realism of this tool.

The trap would be to complicate its use when in its current version, the simplest, many pilots do not know how to use it and therefore do not use it ...

There are 5 channels. With an average of 6 people per channel (who speak + those who only listen) that makes 30 active guys per side. This seems sufficient to me knowing that since we are not static on the map, we have to change channels often (if used well like the brief say it).

@ Redkestrel: Paradoxically for us, the least easy to understand when they speak are Americans and English because they do not express themselves in the common school language that foreigners have studied elsewhere in the world (it's not exactlythe same language the most often)

Perhaps it would be useful to make a list of the 20  (30?) most useful English phrases for our simulator. They could be learned quickly by some and used as a priority by everyone. It's just an idea.

Know that the less skilled with English are forced to translate to understand what they hear or what they have to say, when ideally they should think in English (without having to translate) to be effective. In the stress of a fight it is even less easy for a foreigner who is not at ease with English. And that is why I am thinking of a short list of essential phrases to know and to use without to have to translate and for to be most often understood. The goal is that most people use the SRS and communicate more easily.

When learning French in school in Canada we have similar issues in how we learn the language...its hard to get a handle on it becuse you are thinking in English and then translating, or vice versa. And then like you mentioned the French we are taught is the more formal French which is closer to "France French" - and of course if you go speak to any Quebecois or people from Northern Ontario, its a very different dialect with a lot of English thrown in. Someone who had high marks in French all through school is immediately lost when trying to speak with french people.

 

Unfortunately I only picked up enough French to know when my In-laws are bad mouthing me!

As far as phrases go, important one is just combinations of cardinal directions and altitude. For example.  "Contact North of Jullich Defenses, on the Deck"  or " south of Jullich, down low, with enemy fighter at my 6". Not a specific phrase but a phrase structure that tells someone a rough location so they know where to go to help, or where to watch. I'm unfortunately not very good at keeping consistent phrasing!