Southern Area of Bodenplatte

[Cerdon]

Hey all just curious about the southern area of Bodenplatte, obviously this area is important, as it was where the Germans broke through in 1940, and tried to again in 1944, however I notice several key things missing from this area, 1 being the Rhine around Frankfurt being underdeveloped when compared to its real life counterpart, while I'm not 100% sure on this, I could have sworn this area was dotted with large industrial parks, connecting Frankfurt and main, with no fields in-between, or at least very few, 2. It seems the ardenne forest is lacking, as most of it is copy paste oak trees, when a large part of the flora is evergreen, additionally I assume some small towns are probably missing like (Hurtgen definitely is) in the river valleys here, but that is a small gripe, as I understand the segmenting of maps into forest, plains, and city chunks enables much larger maps and greater performance, more importantly Bastogne, the all important crossroad, has only one road leading to it, 3. And saving the best for last the Meuse River, this area of the map is even worse than the area around Frankfurt, as major towns like Dinant, which was a critical area in which the northernmost of 3 panzer armies broke through in 1940, is not on the map, neither is its citadel, even though 5-10km south is the rather well done town of Givet. While I understand that this map is large and full of detail, it seems really strange that the ardennes region of this map is so underdone, why instead of maybe taking 10 or 20 kilometers out of the far west, where there are few airfields and fewer important sites was instead decided to put only slight effort into the ardennes region, I understand that they devs want to keep IL-2 at a high framerate for all, but I can't see how this justifies 5 maybe 10 frames

[ShamrockOneFive]

There's been a bunch of discussions on the map and the details built into it. It comes down to finding a fine balance between performance and detail and obviously in the developers calculation they decided to include only certain details in exchange for covering a wide area (Bodenplatte's map is quite large).

 

It's difficult to say 5-10 frame rate hit when we don't know what the actual hit would be, what the overall limits of the Digital Warfare engine are when it comes to object count and map size, and what the target is for acceptable performance on a wide variety of systems. 5 fps hit on a good system is hardly anything. A 5 fps hit on a min spec PC can make a good experience go bad.

[sevenless]

The map lacks important historical details bigtime. I am not talking about overfidelity, which would kill performance. Industrial key areas are being absent, rail network is moddeled only to 50%. No shiptraffic present on rivers.  Pinetrees are missing alltogether (60% of vegetation in most european woods). Battlefield areas lacking key features and the key towns, infrastructure is missing, river and shorelines are unfinished. Netherlands landscape looks nothing like the real thing. Outside of big cities it is a void wasteland. On a historical scale the map is 2/8 at best. A huge dissapointment. Looks like they ran out of time or budget to do a decent job on it. You possibly won´t recognize if you constantly fly above 4000metres, but if you are going down on ground level and even try to replicate historical events, you will see the desaster. Huge room for improvement with this map. Hopefully they invest necessary time into it. We can only hope for Normandy that they learned their lesson. A bad map can kill the whole immersion of the game.

[Eisenfaustus]

I miss my Eiffel vulcan mountains as the town of Mayen, where I used to live as a child, seems to be pictured in flat country. 
 

nevertheless I really enjoy flying in Western Europe and since my rack is a little dated I personally am thankful they chose performance over accuracy. 

[CountZero]

For me level that they build map is good enough, compared to Kuban its not as detailed but if we can get bigger areas to play on i like compromise we got with bobp map, i expect same level in bon map.

[ShamrockOneFive]

3 hours ago, sevenless said:

The map lacks important historical details bigtime. I am not talking about overfidelity, which would kill performance. Industrial key areas are being absent, rail network is moddeled only to 50%. No shiptraffic present on rivers.  Pinetrees are missing alltogether (60% of vegetation in most european woods). Battlefield areas lacking key features and the key towns, infrastructure is missing, river and shorelines are unfinished. Netherlands landscape looks nothing like the real thing. Outside of big cities it is a void wasteland. On a historical scale the map is 2/8 at best. A huge dissapointment. Looks like they ran out of time or budget to do a decent job on it. You possibly won´t recognize if you constantly fly above 4000metres, but if you are going down on ground level and even try to replicate historical events, you will see the desaster. Huge room for improvement with this map. Hopefully they invest necessary time into it. We can only hope for Normandy that they learned their lesson. A bad map can kill the whole immersion of the game.

 

Some great points there. Some more vegetation variety would be a great thing to see (they did such a great job on the Moscow map there) and there are some immersion features surrounding smaller boats and water traffic that would be interesting to have as well.

[sevenless]

10 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

Some more vegetation variety would be a great thing to see (they did such a great job on the Moscow map there)

 

I agree. Without much work they could change a lot to the positive on the BoBP map. Just have a look at the fields MOD (MOSCOW_F.7z) of MayBug for the BoM map here. That modded BoM map looks more like NW-Europe than the actual BoBP map does. And as an additional plus, it has coniferous trees. I wonder why at the very least they don´t carry those trees over from the BoM map to Rhineland.

 

 

 

 

Percentage of coniferous woods in EU region. Source: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/3217494/5733109/KS-31-11-137-EN.PDF

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by sevenless

[Cerdon]

9 hours ago, CountZero said:

For me level that they build map is good enough, compared to Kuban its not as detailed but if we can get bigger areas to play on i like compromise we got with bobp map, i expect same level in bon map.

well thats the thing that does annoy me, the far north and south west are two areas with almost nothing important, yet they were still included, I think most people would have preferred a map with 10-20km missing than a map without the autobahn, farms, and small towns. Kuban was amazing and I don't get why BOBP was not at that level.

[RhumbaAzul]

Ships, or lack thereof, is my only real gripe about Bodenplatte.

 

Antwerp without ships, to me as a Scot, is like fish without chips.

[PatrickAWlson]

How bad of a thing is it to use Kuban ships in Bodenplatte?  Some might be jarring bit a freighter is pretty much a freighter from 10000 feet.  

[RhumbaAzul]

29 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

How bad of a thing is it to use Kuban ships in Bodenplatte?  Some might be jarring bit a freighter is pretty much a freighter from 10000 feet.  

I'm assuming that you mean using your campaign generator? I'd prefer if they were there as part of the standard game.

[PatrickAWlson]

1 hour ago, RhumbaAzul said:

I'm assuming that you mean using your campaign generator? I'd prefer if they were there as part of the standard game.

 

I was just referring to whatever uses the map.